[babym_gen]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

If you measure (statically) the camber you will have a lower value - more negative - with lower springs (basically it's the same principle of the short shift), but once the suspension is loaded (since it is a McPherson, only the M5/M8 has double wishbones at the front), you cannot maintain the value because the lack of upper arms cannot control the force pushing the suspension and you immediately lose negative camber. The more you compress the suspension, the more the camber increases - positive - and the tire will have less ground contact.
With lower springs you solve nothing, the only way to really increase negative camber is to install camber plates, the physics does not change but having a different position of the upper shock mount you start with more negative camber.

You are right about the use of a McPherson strut, my bad.
But I am not sure about this: "The more you compress the suspension, the more the camber increases - positive"

It's true of the classic design but there are a lot of variants. The M3/M4 seems to have a double jointed control arm* which could help keep the camber negative.
I need to do more research but it would be a shame if BMW cheapened on the design of the front suspension to the point it can't maintain negative camber under compression.

* https://suspensionsecrets.co.uk/camber-gain/

[ledgy]

Originally Posted by chicagofan00

Yeah, 1000Ms still get plenty dirty with the brake dust with the steel brakes. They don’t get as bad as the black wheels as those just look dirty brown not long after cleaning.

i am having my wheells full ceramic coating ...hope that helps. Must take a bit of work cleaning them

[chicagofan00]

Originally Posted by ledgy

i am having my wheells full ceramic coating ...hope that helps. Must take a bit of work cleaning them

I prepped and ceramic coated my wheels before mounting them on and it’s still not a fun task to keeping them clean. The steel brakes just put off too much dust.

[Reesnat]

Curious about the MPerformance HAS kit - this one was designed for the M3/M4 but also fits the M2.

Which means it’s spring rates etc was designed with the M3/M4 in mind. The M2 has a shorter wheelbase and uses different spring rates as stock so the HAS designed for M3/M4 will work but probably not ideal.

Just speculating here and trying to dig a bit deeper to understand. I’m seriously considering this as I will be tracking the car so the performance angle is primary for me vs aesthetics.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by Reesnat

Curious about the MPerformance HAS kit - this one was designed for the M3/M4 but also fits the M2.

Which means it’s spring rates etc was designed with the M3/M4 in mind. The M2 has a shorter wheelbase and uses different spring rates as stock so the HAS designed for M3/M4 will work but probably not ideal.

Just speculating here and trying to dig a bit deeper to understand. I’m seriously considering this as I will be tracking the car so the performance angle is primary for me vs aesthetics.

For the track, get a complete set of coilovers and camber plates.

[Reesnat]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

For the track, get a complete set of coilovers and camber plates.

Ideally, yes, but there are many benefits that a kit like this offers to those like me who want to track the car without compromising road manners and usability.

• I cannot afford much of a drop in India and looking to drop only by 10-15mm.
• Want to stay as close to OE setup as possible while improving dynamics. Dropping more than 20mm would ideally require the kinematics to be revised for the best setup.
• Coilovers require an experienced tech who knows how to set it up and balance with kinematics etc.
• Retain stock dampers control
• Maintenance of supporting parts like stock

Basically I want a bit more than stock but not too much too. So from that perspective, this looks like a great option. Designed by OE is always a big plus, they certainly know more about their car than any aftermarket company ever could.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

If you measure (statically) the camber you will have a lower value - more negative - with lower springs (basically it's the same principle of the short shift), but once the suspension is loaded (since it is a McPherson, only the M5/M8 has double wishbones at the front), you cannot maintain the value because the lack of upper arms cannot control the force pushing the suspension and you immediately lose negative camber. The more you compress the suspension, the more the camber increases - positive - and the tire will have less ground contact.
With lower springs you solve nothing, the only way to really increase negative camber is to install camber plates, the physics does not change but having a different position of the upper shock mount you start with more negative camber.

Originally Posted by babym_gen

You are right about the use of a McPherson strut, my bad.
But I am not sure about this: "The more you compress the suspension, the more the camber increases - positive"

It's true of the classic design but there are a lot of variants. The M3/M4 seems to have a double jointed control arm* which could help keep the camber negative.
I need to do more research but it would be a shame if BMW cheapened on the design of the front suspension to the point it can't maintain negative camber under compression.

* https://suspensionsecrets.co.uk/camber-gain/

A compressed suspension has more negative camber, not positive. Conversely the less a wheel is compressed, such as when a car catches some air at speed over a bump, it will have more positive camber as the wheels droop.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by Tag

A compressed suspension has more negative camber, not positive. Conversely the less a wheel is compressed, such as when a car catches some air at speed over a bump, it will have more positive camber as the wheels droop.

Not with a McPherson, initially you will have more negative camber, but in the latter part of the compression it will lose camber.
Min 2:15

[Tag]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

Not with a McPherson, initially you will have more negative camber, but in the latter part of the compression it will lose camber.

It doesn't lose negative camber, it essential levels out when you get close to bottoming out the strut.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by Tag

It doesn't lose negative camber, it essential levels out when you get close to bottoming out the strut.

It does not maintain camber along the "travel" of the suspension (which makes the static camber gain with lower springs useless and misleading), provides negative camber gain only at the beginning of jounce travel and then reverses into positive camber gain at high jounce amounts.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

It does not maintain camber along the "travel" of the suspension (which makes the static camber gain with lower springs useless and misleading), provides negative camber gain only at the beginning of jounce travel and then reverses into positive camber gain at high jounce amounts.

Yes, I get what you're saying but this also happens with a stock setup. I agree that lowering springs are not something you should put on a car. A HAS kit however isn't the same thing. The BMW M Perf HAS kit as well as other HAS kits don't have the same issue as simple lowering springs.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by Tag

Yes, I get what you're saying but this also happens with a stock setup. I agree that lowering springs are not something you should put on a car. A HAS kit however isn't the same thing. The BMW M Perf HAS kit as well as other HAS kits don't have the same issue as simple lowering springs.

My bad, I misunderstood, I thought you were referring to McPherson's topic.

[JustinHEMI]

If if was answered in this thread please feel free to point me to it.

I'm struggling to understand how the G87 can come with different spring rates than G8X from the factory, but have the same kit aftermarket.

Am I missing something?

[Reesnat]

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

If if was answered in this thread please feel free to point me to it.

I'm struggling to understand how the G87 can come with different spring rates than G8X from the factory, but have the same kit aftermarket.

Am I missing something?

Stock Vs the G80/G82 BMW made the front springs stiffer and rear softer, likely to make the car more stable and less oversteery due to its shorter wheelbase.

So going to these stiffer springs all around that were designed for the G80/82 means it’s likely to make the car a lot more dynamic and oversteery (read playful). All theory at this point until we know more and get feedback from people who push it to the limit on a track where these characteristics are highlighted.

[JustinHEMI]

Is it reasonable to assume they'll come out with a g87 specific kit or will it be just one G8x kit?

I'm considering doing this over the winter.

[VIERsr]

They explained it here (13:30)

[JustinHEMI]

Not much of an explanation but I'll take it as they're not intending a different part number.

[M Division]

Originally Posted by Reesnat

Stock Vs the G80/G82 BMW made the front springs stiffer and rear softer, likely to make the car more stable and less oversteery due to its shorter wheelbase.

So going to these stiffer springs all around that were designed for the G80/82 means it’s likely to make the car a lot more dynamic and oversteery (read playful). All theory at this point until we know more and get feedback from people who push it to the limit on a track where these characteristics are highlighted.

Softer rear springs and stiffer front will also make the car squat harder under acceleration and provide a little more launch grip so that may of also had something to do with it.

[Ravenseal]

Welp, officially one week at port getting the HAS installed. I could have been driving the car around this week instead. Let the self-hate begin.

[Rx-7ames]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

Welp, officially one week at port getting the HAS installed. I could have been driving the car around this week instead. Let the self-hate begin.

I am interested to see how it arrives. I would assume it comes at max height, then you have to lower it and get an alignment after you take delivery. But I'm just guessing I don't really know.

[cmgbk75]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

Welp, officially one week at port getting the HAS installed. I could have been driving the car around this week instead. Let the self-hate begin.

Originally Posted by Rx-7ames

I am interested to see how it arrives. I would assume it comes at max height, then you have to lower it and get an alignment after you take delivery. But I'm just guessing I don't really know.

No ETA from your CA?

I believe it’s been stated that they drop it 10mm. Definitely interested to know about the alignment though, I’d hope they do it at the port as well.

[Ravenseal]

Originally Posted by Rx-7ames

I am interested to see how it arrives. I would assume it comes at max height, then you have to lower it and get an alignment after you take delivery. But I'm just guessing I don't really know.

Originally Posted by cmgbk75

No ETA from your CA?

I believe it’s been stated that they drop it 10mm. Definitely interested to know about the alignment though, I’d hope they do it at the port as well.

Still “At the port”. Will follow up with my CA today. The installation instructions from BMW call for an adjustment, as well as an alignment.

Here is the full document: https://rparts-sites.s3.amazonaws.co...INST_INSTR.pdf