[spikes111]

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Bloomberg
October 9, 2014 - 11:04 am ET

MUNICH -- Large-scale manufacturing of cars made with lightweight carbon fiber is moving closer to reality as costs start to fall, according to a materials-development group that has BMW AG as a partner.

MAI Carbon Cluster Management GmbH, a research effort supported by Germany's federal government, businesses and research institutions, is making progress toward reducing carbon-fiber production costs by 90 percent, according to Klaus Drechsler, head of the 80 million-euro ($102 million) project.

"We've certainly reached a halfway point on our cost-cutting target for suitable carbon-fiber parts," said Drechsler, who's also a professor at the Technical University of Munich. "We'll see a lot more carbon-fiber use in the next generation of cars."

BMW and Audi AG, the world's two biggest makers of luxury cars, are among more than 70 companies and other entities backing MAI.

Manufacturers are seeking carbon-fiber components to replace standard metal parts that may weigh twice as much.

The material was reserved until recently for high-end sports cars because it costs as much as $20 a kilogram (2.2 pounds) in its raw form, compared with less than $1 for steel, according to Roland Berger Strategy Consultants.

"The key is to really drive automation" in production, Drechsler said. "There are different scenarios about how carmakers can use carbon fiber -- extensively like BMW, with a carbon-fiber chassis, or with smaller components."

Electric cars

MAI, based in Augsburg, Germany, is funded for at least the five years through in 2017. Partners also include planemaker Airbus Group NV, engineering company Siemens AG and SGL Carbon SE, which has a joint venture with BMW to produce carbon fiber that's used in the passenger frame for the vehicle manufacturer's i3 electric city car and i8 hybrid sports car.

BMW started rolling out the i3 almost a year ago in November and sold more than 10,000 of the model in the first nine months of this year. Similar research efforts are under way in the U.S.

Established in 2011, Oak Ridge Carbon Fiber Composites Consortium, based in Oak Ridge, Tenn., is pursuing new, lower-cost carbon-fiber materials with partners including Ford Motor Co. and Dow Chemical Co.

The technology is already "very, very economical" in BMW's i8 and could be used in other models like the high-end 7-Series sedan to cut weight, Herbert Diess, head of development for BMW, said in a recent interview at the Paris auto show

Applications of carbon fiber in cheaper vehicles "is going to develop over time," Diess said. "Mixed use of materials is a becoming a key term across the industry."

[Dackelone]

CF is the future.

[vladberca]

Can't wait for the release of the new 7! A new era will begin ☺

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by vladberca

Can't wait for the release of the new 7! A new era will begin ☺

I am too but only for the technology it will have/bring to the premium/luxury segment. But I very skeptical as to how competitive it will be with the S-Class if we're solely judging on what a car SHOULD be at this price point/segment.

[Zebra99]

This just means higher profit margins for BMW and no savings assed on to the consumer, if anything we may start to pay more $$ because of the "luxury" and "premium" and "rarity" that owing a CF built car brings.

[Diver]

I cant wait for a car that weights 1000 kg and has a 450 hp 2 liter 4 cylinder that is turbocharged to the max. (Volvo already has a prototype motor.)

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Zebra99

This just means higher profit margins for BMW and no savings assed on to the consumer, if anything we may start to pay more $$ because of the "luxury" and "premium" and "rarity" that owing a CF built car brings.

Inflation wipes away any savings you might have gained. It's not BMW but Central Banking in general.

[N.S.A]

haha watch

[EldRick]

In order to make it cheaper, you can bet that it won't look like the exposed hand-laid-up fabric that you call "carbon-fiber" now - it will just look like any other painted plastic.

[jadnashuanh]

Manufacturers rarely lower the price of a similarly spec'ed vehicle year to year. But, they'll often add 'standard' features to one to justify the consistent pricing. It's not that they couldn't, it's that most customers would be really pissed off if next year's model cost a lot less than theirs did - it would trash the resale market. So, manufacturers keep the price the same, but usually add stuff. Eventually, inflation becomes a big enough component of that, and they can raise prices again. The competition between manufacturers also affects what price they can charge.

They have much more flexibility when adding a new model line since there's no reference pricing they have to try to maintain.

[inFamousKicks]

This just means they'll keep charging you the same amount and essentially making 90% more profit

[Diver]

Originally Posted by EldRick

In order to make it cheaper, you can bet that it won't look like the exposed hand-laid-up fabric that you call "carbon-fiber" now - it will just look like any other painted plastic.

Yes, but it can be used where painted plastic looks appropriate, not just places we can't see but body panels.

[clbmw]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

I am too but only for the technology it will have/bring to the premium/luxury segment. But I very skeptical as to how competitive it will be with the S-Class if we're solely judging on what a car SHOULD be at this price point/segment.

+1 it needs to be more than a big 5 series this time

[cncmastr]

Originally Posted by Socom

Inflation wipes away any savings you might have gained. It's not BMW but Central Banking in general.

Bingo! Well said.

[Roundown]

Originally Posted by inFamousKicks

This just means they'll keep charging you the same amount and essentially making 90% more profit

Right... but your new BMW will also be lighter (now made of CF not steel) and you'll reap the benefit of better performance, handling and fuel economy.

I don't really understand these posts.

What headline would you prefer? Something like:

"BMW Content; has decided to cease R&D and sell same cars for the same nominal price until no one buys them anymore"

[Epoustouflant]

Originally Posted by inFamousKicks

This just means they'll keep charging you the same amount and essentially making 90% more profit

Your comprehension of the reduction in cost is lacking.

CF production will cost 90% less meaning manufacturers will be able to make a business case for its mass usage instead of steel or aluminum and offer cars at the same price as they are now with respect to inflation while benefiting from lower weight and all it entails (performance, consumption, dynamics, substitution of body weight for positive energy weight, etc).

This is welcomed news, bring on the future.

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by Epoustouflant

Your comprehension of the reduction in cost is lacking.

CF production will cost 90% less meaning manufacturers will be able to make a business case for its mass usage instead of steel or aluminum and offer cars at the same price as they are now with respect to inflation while benefiting from lower weight and all it entails (performance, consumption, dynamics, substitution of body weight for positive energy weight, etc).

This is welcomed news, bring on the future.

Not so fast. CF cars are extremely expensive to insure. I got a quote for an i3, more expensive than a brand new M4 to insure. So what we save in MPGs we pay to insurance companies

[Don Pauleone]

good for the car maker, not the buyer. it's not like they are going to lower the price of the parts nor the cars. we are still paying the same or more but they will have better margins. feel me?

[eMvy]

Originally Posted by Socom

Inflation wipes away any savings you might have gained. It's not BMW but Central Banking in general.

Not sure how much longer you can QE this fiat bubble.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by eMvy

Not sure how much longer you can QE this fiat bubble.

I think it's going to be a wild 4Q.

[Matski]

Originally Posted by Don Pauleone

good for the car maker, not the buyer. it's not like they are going to lower the price of the parts nor the cars. we are still paying the same or more but they will have better margins. feel me?

Nope, I don't feel you. The car will be lighter, or the same weight with a better spec.. that is good for the buyer.

Also, the article indicates the the price of CF is 20 times higher than steel, but the reduction is 90%. That means CF will still be TWICE the price of steel. So basically it means the manufacturers will use it more than they have been doing, but ultimately it's still more expensive... so why would they charge less?

[secretsquirrel]

Originally Posted by Matski

Nope, I don't feel you. The car will be lighter, or the same weight with a better spec.. that is good for the buyer.

Also, the article indicates the the price of CF is 20 times higher than steel, but the reduction is 90%. That means CF will still be TWICE the price of steel. So basically it means the manufacturers will use it more than they have been doing, but ultimately it's still more expensive... so why would they charge less?

Not only that, but it means that our insurance will be higher as the cost of replacement parts and labor will be more expensive. New technologies always cost more in the beginning, so maybe the price will become more competitive over time.