[Carefree]

Let’s put this into perspective, at the end of the day opinions notwithstanding, these guys are in the entertainment business pure and simple.
Clicks and controversy are their lifeblood. YMMV

[Autobahn SoCal]

What’s funny is if you watch the M2 vs RS3 video on their channel Thomas says how great the M2 is. All clicks matter I guess.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by M_Tune

Joe Achilles in his farewell review of the M3 Competition that he owned and daily for 12 months had a comment that mirrored Throttle House observations. Joe felt the engine was lethargic from lower rpm when in higher gears and also demonstrated it during the review. It is an area for improvement and thankfully someone has the courage to call it out.

The S58 is tuned more linearly than the S55 and has much better pull to the red line. It is really just lazy drivers not anticipating the gear they should be in that seem to have issues with power at lower revs. The engine just behaves more like a larger displacement engine that breathes well at high RPM, much more satisfying to drive because of that, in my opinion.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by M_Tune

Joe Achilles in his farewell review of the M3 Competition that he owned and daily for 12 months had a comment that mirrored Throttle House observations. Joe felt the engine was lethargic from lower rpm when in higher gears and also demonstrated it during the review. It is an area for improvement and thankfully someone has the courage to call it out.

Baloney. I said it then, and I'll say it again. Utter bollocks. Lugging a tuned-high race engine is not pointing out a problem, it's tuned high for a REASON.

It's not an area for improvement, it's by design because if you are tracking a car you want power at the top end, not the bottom end.

Drive the car the way it is intended, and it's a freaking beast. TH's critique misleads people into thinking there's a problem. There's not a problem, and they are doing a disservice to their viewers.

[KC87ZB]

Originally Posted by Squidget

Baloney. I said it then, and I'll say it again. Utter bollocks. Lugging a tuned-high race engine is not pointing out a problem, it's tuned high for a REASON.

It's not an area for improvement, it's by design because if you are tracking a car you want power at the top end, not the bottom end.

Drive the car the way it is intended, and it's a freaking beast. TH's critique misleads people into thinking there's a problem. There's not a problem, and they are doing a disservice to their viewers.

This.

Let me put my controversy hat on: my son's S2000 is a real dog in third gear at 30mph when I mash the throttle. It just takes forever to build power. I found a flaw. LOL.

[MMMGuy60]

Originally Posted by KC87ZB

This.

Let me put my controversy hat on: my son's S2000 is a real dog in third gear at 30mph when I mash the throttle. It just takes forever to build power. I found a flaw. LOL.

I also found a fault in the F87, that pos ran out of power in high rev. What a faulty design, BMW should re-call that engine.... /s

[DSTR]

Originally Posted by Squidget

Baloney. I said it then, and I'll say it again. Utter bollocks. Lugging a tuned-high race engine is not pointing out a problem, it's tuned high for a REASON.

It's not an area for improvement, it's by design because if you are tracking a car you want power at the top end, not the bottom end.

Drive the car the way it is intended, and it's a freaking beast. TH's critique misleads people into thinking there's a problem. There's not a problem, and they are doing a disservice to their viewers.

Entertaining is questionable. Mis-leading is the name of the game for clicks-n-money. They are a joke and the M2 review is a small symptom of the utter BS on YouTube with respect to cars and reviews. The idiocy of that review cannot be overstated at all.

Stop watching and they wont have a life anymore Fk them. There is nothing they are saying that matters that one cannot find elsewhere about a car. Wow..........look we are TH and we are here to tell you the car is fast and has a steering wheel...........Love us!

Piss the fk off TH.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by KC87ZB

This.

Let me put my controversy hat on: my son's S2000 is a real dog in third gear at 30mph when I mash the throttle. It just takes forever to build power. I found a flaw. LOL.

Or any sports motorcycle. Or any NA motor for that matter. Gears are there for a reason, use them.

An opinion on a tool only has merit if the tool is being used properly.

"I drove my M2 into the bay and it sank. The M2 is terrible when used as a boat, fix your shit BMW."

[Alex_bm]

Are we still talking about cars? Why so mad?

Originally Posted by DSTR

Entertaining is questionable. Mis-leading is the name of the game for clicks-n-money. They are a joke and the M2 review is a small symptom of the utter BS on YouTube with respect to cars and reviews. The idiocy of that review cannot be overstated at all.

Stop watching and they wont have a life anymore Fk them. There is nothing they are saying that matters that one cannot find elsewhere about a car. Wow..........look we are TH and we are here to tell you the car is fast and has a steering wheel...........Love us!

Piss the fk off TH.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by Alex_bm

Are we still talking about cars? Why so mad?

I agree with the content of his post, but not the rage.

I don't care about TH, I care that some underinformed soul never gives MT a chance because of the BS that TH shovels. I want more MT drivers, not less.

(Not hypothetical! A forumgoer here cancelled their MT order after the TH review came out. I was very sad.)

[M_Tune]

Originally Posted by Squidget

Baloney. I said it then, and I'll say it again. Utter bollocks. Lugging a tuned-high race engine is not pointing out a problem, it's tuned high for a REASON.

It's not an area for improvement, it's by design because if you are tracking a car you want power at the top end, not the bottom end.

Drive the car the way it is intended, and it's a freaking beast. TH's critique misleads people into thinking there's a problem. There's not a problem, and they are doing a disservice to their viewers.

That is a fair challenge when put into the context of a tracking machine.

Don’t loose sight of the fact the car is intended to dual duty as a family sedan given the 4 doors, rear seat and AWD chassis. As a daily use vehicle, most drivers won’t be incessantly in the mood for constantly rowing gears contrary to what they post on Internet forums.

Engines can have good low end pull and still build power to redline, those traits are not mutually exclusive. In a very expensive car, it is also not an unreasonable ask.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by M_Tune

That is a fair challenge when put into the context of a tracking machine.

Don’t loose sight of the fact the car is intended to dual duty as a family sedan given the 4 doors, rear seat and AWD chassis. As a daily use vehicle, most drivers won’t be incessantly in the mood for constantly rowing gears contrary to what they post on Internet forums.

Engines can have good low end pull and still build power to redline, those traits are not mutually exclusive. In a very expensive car, it is also not an unreasonable ask.

In that case, the auto or an M240xi would be the better choice for a driver who prefers low end torque to power that is strong to the redline, which the current tuning and manual transmission are geared towards (pun intended). Doing both would require an additional smaller turbo or a hybrid system that would then destroy the current linear nature of the engine.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by M_Tune

That is a fair challenge when put into the context of a tracking machine.

Don’t loose sight of the fact the car is intended to dual duty as a family sedan given the 4 doors, rear seat and AWD chassis. As a daily use vehicle, most drivers won’t be incessantly in the mood for constantly rowing gears contrary to what they post on Internet forums.

Engines can have good low end pull and still build power to redline, those traits are not mutually exclusive. In a very expensive car, it is also not an unreasonable ask.

4 doors and AWD? Are we talking about some car other than the G87? I'm talking about the TH's take on the G87. 2 door motorsports oriented RWD MT coupe. It can daily driver, but the motor is absolutely intended to be track first (hence the tons of cooling support).

I don't know why you'd buy an M car with an MT as your daily unless you want to row gears daily. The AT is perfectly fine.

As aerobod noted, it's a hard ask to deliver power everywhere. Which is why none of BMW's N/B/S motors do that. Nor, frankly, any motor I can think of in the < $100K segment. Every engine configuration has peaks and valleys in the power curve.

[OldButSmooth]

As an Australian I care little about the opinion of two Canadians regarding the G87 or probably anything else for that matter. What is really important to me is how I feel about the G87...but then again my opinion has nothing to do with click bait.

[Baller]

Originally Posted by OldButSmooth

As an Australian I care little about the opinion of two Canadians regarding the G87 or probably anything else for that matter. What is really important to me is how I feel about the G87...but then again my opinion has nothing to do with click bait.

Smooth.

[awg87]

Is this discussion still going on? I think every reviewer has come around to enjoy this car now.

Thomas is entitled to his (biased) opinion but he's said the g87 is a great car multiple times at this point.

TH is making some of the best car content available with SG and Jason. So what if they got one wrong?

[apez]

Originally Posted by awg87

Is this discussion still going on? I think every reviewer has come around to enjoy this car now.

Thomas is entitled to his (biased) opinion but he's said the g87 is a great car multiple times at this point.

TH is making some of the best car content available with SG and Jason. So what if they got one wrong?

Somehow we seem to stick on you have to agree with someone on everything to enjoy them.

Without some disagreement life would be boring!

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by apez

Somehow we seem to stick on you have to agree with someone on everything to enjoy them.

Without some disagreement life would be boring!

Couldn’t disagree more!

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by aerobod

The S58 is tuned more linearly than the S55 and has much better pull to the red line. It is really just lazy drivers not anticipating the gear they should be in that seem to have issues with power at lower revs. The engine just behaves more like a larger displacement engine that breathes well at high RPM, much more satisfying to drive because of that, in my opinion.

Power notwithstanding, S58 engine feels pretty dull coming from the sonorous S65 at 8400 or even the S55 that revved to 7600 rpm. S58 hardly feels like a race engine in that regard, and I will continue to sht on the ZF8 because unlike the M-DCT that could cater to 9000 rpm, ZF8 essentially gave BMW an excuse to limit S58's max rpm to 7200. It's not a rev happy engine at all, especially when paired with ZF8 (yes, I'm talking about the rev-hang near the redline.)

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Power notwithstanding, S58 engine feels pretty dull coming from the sonorous S65 at 8400 or even the S55 that revved to 7600 rpm. S58 hardly feels like a race engine in that regard, and I will continue to sht on the ZF8 because unlike the M-DCT that could cater to 9000 rpm, ZF8 essentially gave BMW an excuse to limit S58's max rpm to 7200. It's not a rev happy engine at all, especially when paired with ZF8 (yes, I'm talking about the rev-hang near the redline.)

No rev hang on the 6MT. S58 is just a better engine overall than the S55 both from a power potential and overall lack of issues, even though the nominal redline is a bit lower due to ZF8 limits. S65 definitely sounds nice but is a lot more bark than bite compared with the S58.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by aerobod

No rev hang on the 6MT. S58 is just a better engine overall than the S55 both from a power potential and overall lack of issues, even though the nominal redline is a bit lower due to ZF8 limits. S65 definitely sounds nice but is a lot more bark than bite compared with the S58.

I have the 6MT, and even that one suffers from rev not dropping fast enough although I heard this is intentional to keep the boost up. Combined with the clutch delay valve, it is frustrating at times. There are things I like about the car but powertrain feel isn't exactly the highlight.

[El SID]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

I have the 6MT, and even that one suffers from rev not dropping fast enough although I heard this is intentional to keep the boost up. Combined with the clutch delay valve, it is frustrating at times. There are things I like about the car but powertrain feel isn't exactly the highlight.

I also have the G87 in manual. Unlike many other owners, I have no issue with the heavy flywheel, shift linkage and clutch delay valve. You could never rip off quick shifts in any BMW. Shifting in the M2 requires slower rhythmic hand and foot motions as you slice through first and second. My 1-2 shifts usually occur between 2600-3000 rpms. The M2 feels as though it has a boost by gear calibration. Once I’m in 2nd, the boost, power and smoothness increase measurably. 😀