[Chris Lowe]

I’ve read through most of the window pinch protection threads without finding the answer, but I’m hoping that there is one…

I’ve operated the rear door windows on my 2007 335i E90 only about 13 times in the 13 years that I’ve owned the car. The second last time that I operated the driver’s side (left) rear window it balked on the way up. I gently pulled up on the window while operating the switch to get it past the resistance point, after which it closed on its own normally. The other day this happened again, so after getting home I did the same thing to get the window successfully closed.

I think what happens in this paragraph is irrelevant, but I’ll mention it for completeness. I wondered if the next time that this happened I might not be able to get the window up, so decided to pull fuse F62 and prevent myself from putting the window down.

The next time that I drove the car the pinch protection warning was displayed and the chime was sounding every 15 seconds (which is justified if the ABS or airbags are non-functional, but not for a malfunctioning window). I put the fuse back in, initially thinking that was what the complaint was about, but when that failed to stop the malfunction warning I checked the manual to understand what the window with an exclamation mark was meant to signify.

The window won’t operate at all now, which I’m fine with. Is there a way (other than an hour long drive to the dealer and some cash) to clear the pinch protection fault? I gave it 24 hours hoping that it would clear itself, but that was not the case. I suspect that the onboard computers will retain the error if I disconnect the battery, but I’d be happy if someone told me that was not the case.

Thanks

[freakystyly]

The annoying window alarm is normal when the car can't find or communicate with the motor.

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...motors/Xn9y4Gq

Hopefully you don't need to tear open the door to a broken regulator, it's a common problem I'll be tackling later tonight myself.

[Chris Lowe]

Unfortunately, I have experience getting into the doors, having needed to replace all four door locks already. Not needing to use this window, though, I was hoping for a way to just tell the computer to clear the fault and it can complain again next time the fault happens, which won't happen without a fuse in place to drive the motor and cause the problem.

[e90yyc]

Originally Posted by Chris Lowe

Unfortunately, I have experience getting into the doors, having needed to replace all four door locks already. Not needing to use this window, though, I was hoping for a way to just tell the computer to clear the fault and it can complain again next time the fault happens, which won't happen without a fuse in place to drive the motor and cause the problem.

Have you ever coded your car? I can’t recall 100%, but I seem to remember being able to configure parameters related to pinch protection etc. Might be possible to disable this.

I know that’s vague, but if you have a cable and software to code with let me know and I’ll try to find more info for you.

[Chris Lowe]

Originally Posted by e90yyc

Have you ever coded your car? I can’t recall 100%, but I seem to remember being able to configure parameters related to pinch protection etc. Might be possible to disable this.

I know that’s vague, but if you have a cable and software to code with let me know and I’ll try to find more info for you.

Thanks very much for the offer, but no, that's not something that I've done before. Maybe a bit over my head to try that, based on my minimal knowledge of vehicle computer systems.

[freakystyly]

So I was getting a window + ! icon on startup (no 15 second alarm with working motor connection). I knew it was a broken plastic window regulator clip.

After replacing my broken regulator the window would only rise and lower in 2" increments. I followed the link I put up earlier and it relearned the stops, the error is gone.

As for you, it sounds like you just want to disable the window? Without coding I'm not sure there is a way to spoof the motor's signal to the CAS. Maybe look into removing / disabling the actual door switches?

[Efthreeoh]

Just hold the switch in the up position for 10 seconds or longer once the window closes.

[Chris Lowe]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Just hold the switch in the up position for 10 seconds or longer once the window closes.

The window won't operate up or down at this point. There is no sound of a motor running when either switch is operated (local or driver's door).

I know now that what I did by manually helping it get past the resistance point that was causing the pinch protection to reverse the window travel was the wrong thing to do. I should have read the manual and learned that there was a procedure to use so that the window closes without pinch protection enabled (so would close on its own as long as the motor and regulator would allow it to).

All three other windows operate normally, including pulling past the resistance point of the switch makes for auto closing or opening without needing to hold the switch.

I wonder if disconnecting the motor would make the warning and chiming stop?

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Chris Lowe

... The second last time that I operated the driver’s side (left) rear window it balked on the way up. I gently pulled up on the window while operating the switch to get it past the resistance point, after which it closed on its own normally. The other day this happened again, so after getting home I did the same thing to get the window successfully closed... decided to pull fuse F62 and prevent myself from putting the window down.
The next time that I drove the car the pinch protection warning was displayed and the chime was sounding every 15 seconds... I put the fuse back in, initially thinking that was what the complaint was about, but when that failed to stop the malfunction warning I checked the manual to understand what the window with an exclamation mark was meant to signify...

Originally Posted by Chris Lowe

The window won't operate up or down at this point. There is no sound of a motor running when either switch is operated (local or driver's door)...All three other windows operate normally, including pulling past the resistance point of the switch makes for auto closing or opening without needing to hold the switch...

QUESTIONS:

1) What is the build Month/Year for your 2007 335i? Electrical Systems changed effective 3/1/2007 in middle of 2007 model run.

2) Do you have a Scan Tool or any Diagnostic Software such as INPA/ISTA, and if so Make/Model? Any Fault Codes related to the Rear Windows are likely in the JBE (Junction Box Electronics) Module, or perhaps in the FRM Module. You won't find anything in the DME.

3) Do you have a Multimeter and Patch Cords/ wiring with alligator clips, to do electrical tests?

4) You likely have "CC-ID" code(s) (3-digit) in the KOMBI Module that you can read using the "Check Control" procedure. If NOT sure how to do that, see procedure steps in Owner's Manual. See "Check Control" in the Index. Please try that and provide Codes. NOT very definitive, but better than nothing.

If you will answer those questions, I will provide wiring diagrams and suggested tests.

George

[Chris Lowe]

Thank you for the offer to help, George.

In answer to your questions:

1. I’ve attached a couple of photos of the body label and the manufacturing printout from the car when it arrived that make me believe that it was built in May, 2007.
2. No.
3. Yes. I’m proficient with non-automotive electrical and computer systems.
4. I have never seen the “CC-ID” codes that you describe in my exploration of the limited diagnostics of the vehicle. The owner’s manual doesn’t mention them in the “Check Control” section, either, so I think they were not a part of the build of my car.

Chris

[Chris Lowe]

I'm not opposed to buying some scanning tool and diagnostic software if that would be a cost effective solution to this problem. I have no idea what the dealer would charge to make this problem go away, or the cost of scanning tools, in order to do a comparison.

Chris

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Chris Lowe

...
1. [2007 335i E90] was built in May, 2007.
2. No Scan Tool/Diagnostic Software.
3. Have DMM/Patchcords. I’m proficient with non-automotive electrical and computer systems.
4. I have never seen the “CC-ID” codes that you describe in my exploration of the limited diagnostics of the vehicle. The owner’s manual doesn’t mention them in the “Check Control” section, either, so I think they were not a part of the build of my car.
Chris

Hi Chris,

Here are the TIS wiring diagrams for Power Window Outputs and Inputs, and the Functional Description of Initialising Power Windows:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...lputs/HvErspU6
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...inputs/uN1ryRS
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...motors/Xn9y4Gq

You may already be familiar with those circuits. What I find curious is WHY the window would go DOWN, and up (at least to a "sticking point" where assistance was needed) BEFORE you removed fuse F62 which appears from the TIS schematic to power ONLY the Left-Rear Window, BUT NOW, the window will NOT operate at all by either the LR Door switch OR the Driver Switch Cluster. If reinserting F62 (after testing electrically to make sure it carries current) does NOT allow opening the window by either switch, AND all other window switches/ motors work, then there HAS to be a relay fault IN the JBE, a wiring/ Connector fault between the JBE (Junction Box Electronics) Module and the LR Window Motor, OR a fault with the Motor itself.

I would suggest beginning with the Outputs (since NEITHER Input Switch has any effect) and testing for proper change of polarity between B+ & Ground in the Black/Yellow and Blue/Green wires between the JBE and Window Motor, as the motor rotation direction changes UP/DWN with Polarity of DC applied. You can "hotwire" or test the motor in similar fashion.

TIS schematics are Interactive. For Example, clicking on the Intermediate Connector in that Window Motor Feed, X273, allows you to view this "Installation Location" showing the Connector located behind the B-Pillar Trim Pad:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...200705/RarSMMo

Please let us know what you find,
George

[Chris Lowe]

Hi George,

Thanks for that info. I had been drawing the (perhaps incorrect) conclusion that some computer had disabled operation of the motor as a result of the pinch protection fault, otherwise, like you I don’t understand why there is no motor noise when either switch is operated. I’ve checked the fuse several times and replaced with a new one just in case (and double-checked that I'm working with the right fuse position). The last movement of the window was it closing itself from the mostly open position, so the motor was working at that point. It seems unlikely that the motor would have chosen this time, just after a successful closing, to die.

I will start opening things up and doing some diagnostic work. It may take some time....

Thanks again,
Chris

[Chris Lowe]

Thanks again for your help so far, George. The window now operates normally, but I still have the annoying visual and audible alarm every 15 seconds. I hope that there is a solution for that. Here's what I did.

1. Checked that I was working with fuse 62.
2. Checked that it was electrically conductive, reinserted, turned on the ignition and checked by touching the multimeter probe to the exposed test points on the top of the blade fuse that 12V was present on both sides of the fuse.
3. Opened up the rear driver’s side door and disconnected X714 from the motor.
4. Put the multimeter probes into terminals 5 & 6, activated the local switch and there was zero voltage.
5. Removed the trim under the glovebox and pondered which was X14271. What I was looking at didn’t seem to match the graphics in the TIS documents.
6. Taking the battery negative cable off is a 2 minute job, so I thought this was worth a shot at this point. I did that and left it disconnected for 30 minutes.
7. Reconnected the battery cable and turned on the ignition and the pinch protection alarm sounded. At this point I had to go and work on something else for a few hours.
8. When I came back I wanted to confirm that step #4 produced the same result with the driver’s switch, so I had a helper actuate the switch while I was at the back door with the multimeter. This time, there was voltage. There was also an audible “click” from under the glovebox which did not happen before (it would not be audible if the window was operating). The result was the same with the local switch, so removing battery power to the car cleared up some issue.
9. Reconnected X714 to the motor and tested the operation. The window would move up or down in short increments only, taking six switch activations to do a full open or close movement.
10. Struggled a bit, but I believe that I got the window initialization done. The window now works normally, including the “toll” function.

So, mechanically, the window is back to working as it should. Do you have any idea how to clear the fault to stop the visual “pinch protection” alarm and chime every 15 seconds? Would an inexpensive scan tool allow me to do this, or do those tools only allow “reading” and not “writing”? I know nothing about scan tools, unfortunately.

Chris

[Chris Lowe]

I wondered if initialization of every window was required to clear the fault, so I did that for each of the four windows. I could confirm that I had “de-calibrated” each window successfully because the “toll function” no longer worked for the “close window” function (see link below for procedure). Then I re-did the initialization and the “toll function” now works for each window, so it was successful for each window. But the window pinch alarm continues (symbol of window with adjacent exclamation mark with accompanying audible chime).

Does anyone have experience with scan tools and can suggest a way to clear the fault with one of those? Otherwise I think my only option at this point is to have the dealer clear it with their tools.

Thanks,
Chris

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...motors/Xn9y4Gq

[mider111]

I have the exact same problem. I checked the motor, the footwell module, and the regulator but they seem fine. I went to an auto shop and they told me it was a faulty footwell module which it is not. I will be going back to them next week on Tuesday and will let you know if they are able to fix it.

[Chris Lowe]

I’ve resolved this, so will wrap it up for anyone using this thread to solve a similar problem in the future. To summarize, at this point all four windows in my e90 were working perfectly, but I had the annoying “pinch protection” warning symbol popping up every 15 seconds, along with the chime.

My first attempt to clear the fault was to purchase an inexpensive ELM327 ODBI adapter. I downloaded the Carly diagnostic software, thinking that if the software could see the fault code I’d pay for the year’s subscription and use that to clear it. Carly wouldn’t work with the adapter. I considered buying the Carly ODBI adapter, but after some more research thought that I’d try the INPA software. I bought an K+DCAN cable and downloaded the software from BimmerGeeks.com, installing it on an old Windows laptop. The time required to install the software, configure the cable, and watch some tutorials on YouTube took most of my time. Clearing the fault took two minutes.

So in the end, for all the work that I did to solve this issue versus having the dealer do it, it’s possible that I was working for less than minimum wage, but I’ve learned a new skill which is always a good thing.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Chris Lowe

... I bought an K+DCAN cable and downloaded the software from BimmerGeeks.com, installing it on an old Windows laptop. The time required to install the software, configure the cable, and watch some tutorials on YouTube took most of my time. Clearing the fault took two minutes...

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the update on your situation. You could help us ALL learn something if you would answer the following:

1) What was/were the Fault Code(s) (Hex-code numbers) that was/were saved related to the "Pinch Protection" feature?
2) Was that Fault Code saved in the FRM Module, or the JBBF/JBE Module?
3) This related to the Left-Rear, or US Driver's side rear window in an E90?
4) Did you clear the Fault using INPA > Functional Jobs > F4 > F2 Clear Fault Memory (Fehlerspeicher loschen); OR
5) Did you clear the Fault using INPA > JBBF (or FRM) > F4 > F2 Fehlerspeicher loschen?

Thanks,
George

[Chris Lowe]

I’ll provide more detail than you’ve asked for, George, for the benefit of others unfamiliar with INPA. I didn’t take any screenshots yesterday when I resolved the issue, but I’ve recreated most of the process.

The succinct answers to your questions are:

1. What was/were the Fault Code(s) (Hex-code numbers) that was/were saved related to the "Pinch Protection" feature? A6DB, A72A, A72B
2. Was that Fault Code saved in the FRM Module, or the JBBF/JBE Module? JBBF/JBE
3. This related to the Left-Rear, or US Driver's side rear window in an E90? Yes
4. Did you clear the Fault using INPA > Functional Jobs > F4 > F2 Clear Fault Memory (Fehlerspeicher loschen) Yes
5. Did you clear the Fault using INPA > JBBF (or FRM) > F4 > F2 Fehlerspeicher loschen? No

The longer version here:

1. Once INPA starts up, a black circle and “Yes/On” at the top confirm that the software recognizes the cable and sees that the car ignition is turned on. At this point press “F3” for E90 (in my case). That will bring up the “Script selection” dialog.
2. Double-click on “Functional Jobs”. That will bring up the disconcerting dialog about a possible malfunction. Click “OK”.
   
3. The “Main Menu” page appears. If you’re new to INPA, at this point you can press “F2” to satisfy yourself that the software is communicating with the vehicle. You’ll see the VIN displayed. Press “F4” to get to the “Error Memory” page.
4. The “Error Memory” page appears. Press “F1” to see stored errors/faults.
5. The text in red has been recreated by me today based on hand-written notes that I took yesterday. My shop lacks Internet access, so I wrote the codes down so that I could walk up to the house and look them up. I used https://my.obdcloud.com/dtc_codes/bmw.
   (It has been the driver’s side, rear window (E90, left vehicle side in North America) that has been causing me trouble)
   • A6DB – Power window relay (opening), driver’s side, rear.
   • A72A – Power window hall sensor 1, driver’s side, rear.
   • A72B – Power window hall sensor 2, driver’s side, rear.
   • 9CCD – It’s a mystery to me how one code can have two possible meanings, but the choices for this one are “Exhaustive-discharge protection of battery: deactivation, parking light” or “Drive, mirror, driver's side, faulty”.
6. Press “F10” to exit. I haven’t written down if this took me one step back or two, but in any case get to the "Error Memory" screen and press “F2” to clear the error memory. Read the error memory again with “F1” to check if faults were cleared. In my case, all four of the stored faults were.

Chris

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Chris Lowe

... [*]9CCD – It’s a mystery to me how one code can have two possible meanings, but the choices for this one are “Exhaustive-discharge protection of battery: deactivation, parking light” or “Drive, mirror, driver's side, faulty”.[/LIST]...

Thanks Chris for taking the time to explain your process and the actual codes found in the JBBF/JBE related to the window faults. I'll explain below how to get CORRECT & COMPLETE Fault Code Definitions and other Fault Details, including Freeze Frame Data (Snapshot of system conditions at the moment of the fault), to SAVE you a trip from the Shop to the House.

You have discovered WHY you want to use more than "Functional Jobs" to Diagnose Faults. Functional Jobs just gives a "Starting Point" in the Diagnostic Process, by providing a list of ALL Fault Codes (without definitions) in ALL Modules. The NEXT Step is to connect to any Module, here JBBF, which has a fault and read Fehlerspeicher/Fault Memory in THAT Module: JBBF > F4 > F1. There is an F4 Fault Memory group of screens in EACH Module, as well as F5 Status for reading Parameters or Inputs to the Module, and F6 Activations in MOST Modules (NOT in MRS ;-)

What you have discovered is that ONE Hex-code can have MULTIPLE definitions. There are several reasons for that. The one that applies in the case of "9CCD" is that fault relates to the Driver's door Mirror if you have the FRM "Variant" or SGBD = FRM 70; it relates to deactivation of Parking Light if you have FRM 87 Variant. Here are the two definitions from BMW Fault Code Lookup:
9CCD | FRM: Drive, mirror, driver's side, faulty | frm_70
9CCD | FRM: Exhaustive-discharge protection of battery: deactivation, parking light | frm_87

If you connect to the Module which has the Fault Code, and read F4 Fehlerspeicher (Fault Memory) in that Module, INPA will give you the CORRECT Definition for that Module, as well as the Module SGBD/Variant, so you don't have to look it up elsewhere. INPA also gives you the corresponding P-code when you are reading Fault Codes in the DME (Engine) Module.

You NEED the specific Definition of the code for another reason. Hex-codes (referred to by some as "BMW codes") often have two or three definitions for ONE code, and perhaps two or three corresponding P-codes for ONE Hex-code. For example, here are two different Definitions of ONE Hex-code, 29E0:
P0171 | 29EO | System Too Lean (Bank 1)
P0172 | 29EO | System Too Rich (Bank 1)

Note that there is a DIFFERENT P-code for each definition, so if you simply had a code reader which did NOT reliably provide DEFINITIONS (as INPA DOES), you would be better off with the P-code than the Hex-code. Using INPA, if you read Fault Memory (Fehlerspeicher) by connecting to the DME and you will see BOTH (1) a correct Definition (unfortunately in German), and (2) the corresponding P-code which in this case tells you more than you have a mixture issue on Bank 1; it tells you whether the mixture is too RICH or too LEAN.

One other trick when you are starting to use INPA: SAVE a ScreenPrint of "Functional Jobs > F2 Identificaton". That provides a list of EACH of the ~ 20 Modules in your vehicle, with the SGBD/Variant (such as FRM_70), so if there is ANY doubt about your translation of the GERMAN, you can use BMW Fault Code Lookup. Here are links to Google Translate & BMW Fault Code Lookup, so you can make sure you're getting the correct CONCEPTS.
https://translate.google.com/#view=h...te&sl=de&tl=en
http://www.bmwfault.codes/

A copy of Functional Jobs > F2 > Identification, listing all Modules, for my 2007 328xi E91 is attached so you can get an idea of the details it supplies. There is MUCH more to INPA than just reading codes (or clearing codes ;-), so hope to see you educating us as you discover new things. Your screens are great by the way. Perhaps TOO Great

TRICK: open full-size jpg file in Paint, select "Resize" and then select 50% (instead of 100%) in the "horizontal" box. If you have checked "Maintain aspect ratio" the Vertical box now becomes 50% as well. Save that file with 50% after the name so you know its reduced/resized, and when you attach it here, it WON'T blow the text margins.

Thanks again for the info,
George

[Chris Lowe]

Thank you for your help, George. Your insights into the programming mysteries of our cars is appreciated by many.

The "Error Memory" page for the FRM module shows the variant as “FRM_70”, so based on your explanation the 9CCD code was complaining about an issue with the wing mirror (not that I’ve noticed anything).

Even though I had solved the problem with the window for now, I wondered if it might reappear in the future. I could just avoid using the window, but the button is adjacent to the driver’s door window that I use all the time, so it’s possible to unintentionally trigger it. Would removing the fuse prevent the problem? I don’t ever need to use the rear windows. I thought that I’d better test this now while the knowledge was fresh in my brain and the tools were readily to hand, unlike if I was on a road trip. I’ll warn against this, if anyone else has the same idea. Here’s what I did and why pulling the fuse isn't a good idea:

1. At this point there were no faults in memory for the car and all windows were working normally.
2. Pulled fuse 62 for the rear driver’s side window.
3. Ignition on. Activated the down button. Heard a “click” from the JBBF/JBE and the window didn’t move, of course.
4. Activated the down button again. Did not hear a “click”.
5. The familiar icon of a window with the adjacent exclamation mark appeared in the cluster, along with the chime, every 15 seconds.
6. INPA showed the “A6DB” error (power window relay (opening), driver’s side, rear), but no “hall sensor” errors (that’s the pinch protection system), so I can see that the window/exclamation symbol is used by BMW for several errors associated with the window. Because I had pulled the fuse, activation of the opening relay didn’t result in window movement, causing a fault.
7. I could clear the fault with INPA, but it would immediately reappear when I checked for errors again. Put fuse back in. Same behavior with INPA. Now the window won’t open, so I’m back to where I was some time ago with this.
8. Disconnecting the battery cable worked to fix this last time, so repeated that, leaving it disconnected for an hour while I did something else.
9. Reconnected the battery cable. Window will open. Used INPA to clear error. Does not come back.
10. At this point INPA shows no errors and there is no icon/chime every 15 seconds, but there is an exclamation mark in a small triangle just above the trip meter, indicating a problem. Used “Check Control” to bring up the familiar window icon. Hmmm…so why is this here when INPA shows no errors? I recognized that even though the window is operating, it will only operate up or down in short bursts, taking 5-6 switch activations to open or close. I theorized that the triangle with exclamation mark is just trying to tell me that the window needs to be re-initialized. I did that and the symbol went away and the one-touch toll function of the window operated normally.

So, everything is back to working normally and there are no errors. I’m fairly confident that there is a mechanical problem with the window that may require replacing regulator or motor, but for now I’ll just avoid using the window, which as I stated at the beginning of this thread isn’t an issue for me.

Chris

[clegg]

This is a very helpful post. I am experiencing the same issue.

I have the CC ID261 code in the check control 08 328i 4 door.