[Thepharmacist]

I need to program my car battery and perform service on the dsc through ISTAP but all i have is a k+dcan. The guy in this video says you should NOT use a dcan with istap specifically at 19:45

. he says the car will draw more power than the cable can provide, has anyone done it that could relieve my anxiety about the whole situation? Or should I heed his advice and avoid programming through the dcan...? I also dont have a power supply nor do I know which one to buy, I want to build one but IDK if it will respond to increased draw if it needs to.. I thought maybe I could just do the 2 changes quickly though ISTAP if I left the car running and avoid needing the power supply..

[tinkerman]

First, if you need to do battery registration, a simple battery charger (10amp) is enough to keep the battery close to fully charged up. If battery registration is your only issue then the DSC(Dynamic Stability Control) is NOT involved - you may be confusing this with the DME(Digital Motor Electronics) in which battery registration can be performed with Tool32(one app of BMW Standard Tools) - note there's potentially more to the process involving the CAS and FRM as well using NCS Expert(explained in detail below in the "Battery Registration" link).

The K+DCAN cable doesn't provide any power to the car.

If you DO need to flash/program the DSC(unrelated to battery registration) you will absolutely need a power supply/voltage regulator (70~100amp @ 13~14VDC) which is totally different than a battery charger(in output characteristics - battery chargers are not as robust in maintaining steady voltage & current, and can be quite noisy compared to power supplies/voltage regulators).

You do not have the engine running(power button press with brake), just have the ignition on(power button press without brake) when coding/programming. Engine only needs to be on during diagnostics that require real-time input from the engine's DME or transmission etc.. The alternator is NOT a substitute for a clean steady voltage regulation and current source as a power supply.

Since you are limited to K+DCAN cable, have a thorough view and understanding of the following:

1. Use BMW Standard Tools (INPA, NCS Expert, Tool32, WinKFP) & BMW Coding Tool(for updating SP-daten e.g. v66 and up, v72 latest as of this writing, would all have the latest I-level E89x-18-07-520 daten for E90 series).
This way you can use K+DCAN cable(as long as ECUs on the MOST line - infotainment systems/radio/CD/navigation etc. are left alone, otherwise an ICOM NEXT or A2 interface and an ICOM B MOST connector are both needed).

If you insist on using ISTA-P, then you will need ISTA-P Loader 6.1 (more recent 6.3, 6.4, 6.6 do not support K+DCAN).
Download from sites like:
https://mega.nz/folder/xqRCGRgA#Q0xvlETOQOyBEfOhSkRlNA
or search on torrent

and tweak as follows:
A. Open the ISTA-P installation folder and locate the “application.xml” file and
open it with the editor. (e.g. notepad)

B. Change the value “distributionVersion="xx.x.xxx" to the value “distributionVersion=“3.xx.x.xxx“
(i.e. if using ISTA-P v3.68, edit “distributionVersion=“68.x.xxx“ to “distributionVersion=“3.68.x.xxx“)
So just expand the beginning of the version with "3".
Don't enter xx.x.xxx there!! Only at the beginning "3". (Save file)!!
!!Everything else stays as it is!!

Note: ISTA-P Loader 6.1(not an official BMW software) is an older version that was intended for older versions of ISTA-P(e.g. v3.68), and it does open with v3.72 but its reliability with the most recent ISTA-P versions is not confirmed. Use at your own risk.

* Other than Win10 prerequisites like MS Visual C++ Redistributable 2015-2022 both x86 and x64 versions and .NET 3.5 + 4.8, and Java, before ISTA-P installation, the Loader 6.1 notifies during initial boot that EDIABAS 7.3.0 needs to be installed(if not already installed through BMW Standard Tools installation). Reboot Loader 6.1(after license input), select K+DCAN, select "BMW cars", then ISTA-P starts booting. Once in ISTA-P, start session and select available K+DCAN in Connection Manager(ISTA-P thinks ICOM is connected due to ICOM Emulator function of Loader 6.1, hence the mention of "ICOM" in the K+DCAN connection selection).

If you are not in possession of step-by-step demonstrated proper procedures preferably in video format but at least in documented form explaining what each process does and its potential consequences, by an experienced person, don't do it. Even if you do, I'd write a list of the procedures in your own wording with notes and reminders to check and recheck before executing any final run.

2. Battery Registration
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showt...y+registration

3. Power Supply (DIY)
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1838716

Don't be in a rush with any of the above, as there's a lot to take in. Battery registration is perhaps the simplest procedure and you could actually do it with ISTA+ or ISTA-D using K+DCAN cable without much risk(I still recommend BWM Standard Tools as the software is compact and fast), you would still need to keep the battery charged with at least a 10amp battery charger. Again, for programming you absolutely need a 70~100amp power supply that can maintain 13~14v(cannot let car's voltage drop below 13V or the programming will abort or worse brick ECUs).

[Tambohamilton]

Yes, I've done it. I remember there was something weird I had to do when ista asked for the ignition to be cycled - maybe there was a button in the loader to simulate the feedback?

I used a quality cable and a homebrew PSU

[tinkerman]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

... maybe there was a button in the loader to simulate the feedback?...

The Loader 6.1, once all up and running, displays in the Taskbar an icon which if right clicked shows a pop-up menu in which you can select:
*(KL15 - "Terminal 15")

KL15 ON
i.e. ignition ON(engine OFF)
or
KL15 OFF
i.e. ignition OFF(engine OFF)

Unlike an ICOM, K+DCAN cable does not have direct KL15(nor KL30) voltage sensing capability(though it can transmit related data sent from ECUs, hence the importance of monitoring the PSU's voltage during sessions) so this feature is there to manually force ISTA-P to receive the required signal of KL15 ON/OFF, as required by the process at hand(since the actual/physical turning ON/OFF of ignition does not get communicated directly). This is why when using K+DCAN cable the KL15/KL30 voltages in ISTA-P will remain at some set/predetermined value like 14V(without any relation to actual voltages) and not fluctuate, whereas with an ICOM, the actual voltages shown in ISTA-P will differ between the two, and each may vary slightly in real-time depending on the load.

Below is ISTA-P v3.72 with OSE(One Stop Electronics) K+DCAN cable connected via ISTA-P Loader 6.1.

[Tambohamilton]

That's the one! Took me a minute to figure that out, at the time

[tinkerman]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

That's the one! Took me a minute to figure that out, at the time

I've got some questions for you related to the ISTA-P installation you used, but first some background info...

As I'd mentioned above, the Loader 6.1 notifies during initial boot that EDIABAS 7.3.0(patched) needs to be installed(if not already installed through BMW Standard Tools installation). When EDIABAS 7.3.0 is installed(by itself) the Ecu folder(C:\EDIABAS\Ecu) is initially empty(no ".PRG" files). Normally in BMW Standard Tools installations this Ecu folder would be "updated" hence filled with ".prg" files through BMW Coding Tool and SP-daten.

In ISTA-P setup guides I've watched recently, there was no mention of populating(updating) the Ecu folder of EDIABAS 7.3.0. after its installation. That would imply that the Ecu folder can be left empty, but just wanted a second confirmation.

[ QUESTIONS ]
1. Did you have BMW Standard Tools installed and SP-Daten already updated on the laptop with that ISTA-P installation?
(i.e. the Ecu folder was already filled with ".PRG" files)

2. Was BMW Standard Tools not installed on the laptop with the ISTA-P installation, and you had to install EDIABAS 7.3.0? If so, did you update this Ecu folder with ".PRG" files (using BMW Coding Tool & SP-daten files)?

3. Or did you not have BMW Standard Tools installed, but EDIABAS 7.3.0 installed without updating the Ecu folder?

Note: ISTA-P package has its own EDIABAS installation(e.g. ISTA-P\BMW\Environment\EDIABAS), but this doesn't have an Ecu folder at all. Instead the ".PRG" files seem to be assigned to 2 folders:
- C:\ISTA-P\BMW\Services\data\ecudata\BASE\ecu
- C:\ISTA-P\BMW\Services\templates\AmphionTemplate\ecu

I'm basically wondering:
1. Can this "separate installation" of EDIABAS and its empty Ecu folder affect ISTA-P's functions directly?

2. Or is this "separate installation" of EDIABAS "independent" of the installed ISTA-P's operation, and solely for the Loader's use, to access mainly the interface handler/related ".dll" files and ".ini" files(EDIABAS/OBD) for the interface, hence the empty Ecu folder is not an issue?

Thanks...

P.S.
* Update: In another forum I got confirmation that the empty Ecu folder of the "separate installation" of EDIABAS is not an issue for ISTA-P as ISTA-P has all necessary ECU files in folders mentioned above and in the individual series related "ecu" folders.

[Tambohamilton]

Can't remember which way I did it - it's all a bit of a mystery to me. I think #2, though, from your original questions.

[tinkerman]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Can't remember which way I did it - it's all a bit of a mystery to me. I think #2, though, from your original questions.

If you still have that installation of ISTA-P, you are curious, and have some spare time, you can check in that laptop's C: drive > EDIABAS folder > Ecu folder, and see if the Ecu folder is empty or not.

If it is empty, and assuming your ISTA-P session completed successfully, it would be another solid confirmation that the "separate installation" of EDIABAS 7.3.0 is indeed mainly for use by Loader 6.1, and not directly related to ISTA-P.

If you get around to it, please do update here. Thanks...

Cheers...

[Tambohamilton]

ECU folder is full of .prg files

[tinkerman]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

ECU folder is full of .prg files

Then I suspect that your ISTA-P installation was on a computer that already had BMW Standard Tools installed as apps like INPA would need the C:\EDIABAS\Ecu folder populated with files.

When you installed ISTA-P you likely did not have to install EDIABAS 7.3.0 because it was already installed during the BMW Standard Tools installation already on the drive. ISTA-P Loader (6.1 or earlier) would have accessed this EDIABAS installation's 'interface handler' app/related ".dll" and ".ini" files(EDIABAS/OBD) for enabling the K+DCAN interface, but the files in the C:\EDIABAS\Ecu folder were not accessed by ISTA-P which would have accessed its own files in their respective "ecu" folders under the ISTA-P directories mentioned above* and the model/series related "ecu" folder(s)**.

* "ecu" folders under the ISTA-P directory ("standalone" version, not installer installed directory)
- C:\ISTA-P\BMW\Services\data\ecudata\BASE\ecu
- C:\ISTA-P\BMW\Services\templates\AmphionTemplate\ecu

** Model/series related "ecu" folder directory ("standalone" version, not installer installed directory)
- C:\ISTA-P\BMW\Services\data\ecudata\(e.g. E89)\ecu

[Tambohamilton]

Yes, I do have standard tools installed and fully functioning

[wrp_199]

Originally Posted by tinkerman

The Loader 6.1, once all up and running, displays in the Taskbar an icon which if right clicked shows a pop-up menu in which you can select:
*(KL15 - "Terminal 15")

KL15 ON
i.e. ignition ON(engine OFF)
or
KL15 OFF
i.e. ignition OFF(engine OFF)

Unlike an ICOM, K+DCAN cable does not have direct KL15(nor KL30) voltage sensing capability(though it can transmit related data sent from ECUs, hence the importance of monitoring the PSU's voltage during sessions) so this feature is there to manually force ISTA-P to receive the required signal of KL15 ON/OFF, as required by the process at hand(since the actual/physical turning ON/OFF of ignition does not get communicated directly). This is why when using K+DCAN cable the KL15/KL30 voltages in ISTA-P will remain at some set/predetermined value like 14V(without any relation to actual voltages) and not fluctuate, whereas with an ICOM, the actual voltages shown in ISTA-P will differ between the two, and each may vary slightly in real-time depending on the load.

Below is ISTA-P v3.72 with OSE(One Stop Electronics) K+DCAN cable connected via ISTA-P Loader 6.1.

Hi, thank you for all your elaborated messages in this thread, it was really nice to read them. Have you tried to upgrade any module with loader 6.1 and ista-p 3-72? I've tried several times to get newer versions of ista-p working with kdcan cable (since I never update any MOST module) but no matter what I tried that it fails on start if I use 6.1 loader (didnt know about the application.xml trick, may be I will try this)

I'm using ista-p version 3.67.1.006 which is the latest I found that works with kdcan without problems

[Salzamani]

Originally Posted by tinkerman

First, if you need to do battery registration, a simple battery charger (10amp) is enough to keep the battery close to fully charged up. If battery registration is your only issue then the DSC(Dynamic Stability Control) is NOT involved - you may be confusing this with the DME(Digital Motor Electronics) in which battery registration can be performed with Tool32(one app of BMW Standard Tools) - note there's potentially more to the process involving the CAS and FRM as well using NCS Expert(explained in detail below in the "Battery Registration" link).

The K+DCAN cable doesn't provide any power to the car.

If you DO need to flash/program the DSC(unrelated to battery registration) you will absolutely need a power supply/voltage regulator (70~100amp @ 13~14VDC) which is totally different than a battery charger(in output characteristics - battery chargers are not as robust in maintaining steady voltage & current, and can be quite noisy compared to power supplies/voltage regulators).

You do not have the engine running(power button press with brake), just have the ignition on(power button press without brake) when coding/programming. Engine only needs to be on during diagnostics that require real-time input from the engine's DME or transmission etc.. The alternator is NOT a substitute for a clean steady voltage regulation and current source as a power supply.

Since you are limited to K+DCAN cable, have a thorough view and understanding of the following:

1. Use BMW Standard Tools (INPA, NCS Expert, Tool32, WinKFP) & BMW Coding Tool(for updating SP-daten e.g. v66 and up, v72 latest as of this writing, would all have the latest I-level E89x-18-07-520 daten for E90 series).
This way you can use K+DCAN cable(as long as ECUs on the MOST line - infotainment systems/radio/CD/navigation etc. are left alone, otherwise an ICOM NEXT or A2 interface and an ICOM B MOST connector are both needed).

If you insist on using ISTA-P, then you will need ISTA-P Loader 6.1 (more recent 6.3, 6.4, 6.6 do not support K+DCAN).
Download from sites like:
https://mega.nz/folder/xqRCGRgA#Q0xvlETOQOyBEfOhSkRlNA
or search on torrent

and tweak as follows:
A. Open the ISTA-P installation folder and locate the “application.xml” file and
open it with the editor. (e.g. notepad)

B. Change the value “distributionVersion="xx.x.xxx" to the value “distributionVersion=“3.xx.x.xxx“
(i.e. if using ISTA-P v3.68, edit “distributionVersion=“68.x.xxx“ to “distributionVersion=“3.68.x.xxx“)
So just expand the beginning of the version with "3".
Don't enter xx.x.xxx there!! Only at the beginning "3". (Save file)!!
!!Everything else stays as it is!!

Note: ISTA-P Loader 6.1(not an official BMW software) is an older version that was intended for older versions of ISTA-P(e.g. v3.68), and it does open with v3.72 but its reliability with the most recent ISTA-P versions is not confirmed. Use at your own risk.

* Other than Win10 prerequisites like MS Visual C++ Redistributable 2015-2022 both x86 and x64 versions and .NET 3.5 + 4.8, and Java, before ISTA-P installation, the Loader 6.1 notifies during initial boot that EDIABAS 7.3.0 needs to be installed(if not already installed through BMW Standard Tools installation). Reboot Loader 6.1(after license input), select K+DCAN, select "BMW cars", then ISTA-P starts booting. Once in ISTA-P, start session and select available K+DCAN in Connection Manager(ISTA-P thinks ICOM is connected due to ICOM Emulator function of Loader 6.1, hence the mention of "ICOM" in the K+DCAN connection selection).

If you are not in possession of step-by-step demonstrated proper procedures preferably in video format but at least in documented form explaining what each process does and its potential consequences, by an experienced person, don't do it. Even if you do, I'd write a list of the procedures in your own wording with notes and reminders to check and recheck before executing any final run.

2. Battery Registration
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showt...y+registration

3. Power Supply (DIY)
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1838716

Don't be in a rush with any of the above, as there's a lot to take in. Battery registration is perhaps the simplest procedure and you could actually do it with ISTA+ or ISTA-D using K+DCAN cable without much risk(I still recommend BWM Standard Tools as the software is compact and fast), you would still need to keep the battery charged with at least a 10amp battery charger. Again, for programming you absolutely need a 70~100amp power supply that can maintain 13~14v(cannot let car's voltage drop below 13V or the programming will abort or worse brick ECUs).

Couple of questions but first Thank you Tinkerman for the details. I’ve been pulling my hair out trying to figure out why a newer version of ISTA-P Loader is not recognizing my K-DCAN cable and noticed that during the setup it never even had the selection of the cable and now it all makes since.

Little background, I already have a perfectly working INPA it was installed for me a few years back in like 2016 remotely by Bimmer Geeks them selves.

I recently successfully installed ISTA +. For the sense of accomplishment I would like to install a working ISTA-P also and realize the I probably wont be able to fully use it considering I don’t have the necessary power supply. By the way I have found the data limit that Mega has made it challenging to download these large files without the interruptions of the data limits which seem to corrupt the files. I’ve been using a VPN with a rotating ip address to try to get around the data limit issue and even then it seems to not work perfectly. Anyways if you have any recommendations as to how to get around that issue and also I see your link for the 6.1 loader thank you for that. Do you have a link to a ISTA-P 3.68 that you would recommend is known to be a good working version. Could you please provide that link and make any suggestions that you feel will help avoid further issues for me. Thank You!

[tinkerman]

Originally Posted by Salzamani

... I have found the data limit that Mega has made it challenging to download these large files without the interruptions of the data limits which seem to corrupt the files. ... Anyways if you have any recommendations as to how to get around that issue ... .
Do you have a link to a ISTA-P 3.68 that you would recommend is known to be a good working version. ...

Regarding Mega, I use the MEGASync app(but no VPN) and have not had any issues downloading large files over several days(the cheap route).

Regarding ISTA-P 3.68 (or 3.67), I'd try using a torrent app, and going to btdigg.com, search for ISTA-P 3.68 (or 3.67) and click the magnets to get their torrents downloading through your torrent app.

Cheers~