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      07-26-2021, 03:13 PM   #353
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I would disagree. Maybe "financially burdened" is a strong descriptor, but there is an average difference of about $40-50k between a nicely optioned M3/M4 and a nicely optioned Carrera S. The MSRP on my Carrera S is $142k. The MSRP on the G82 that I had ordered/cancelled was $85k-ish. Neither car had all of the boxes ticked. That is a phenomenal difference in car price…..and I didn't even go crazy on my C2S either. The Porsches are not in the same world. Anybody trying to align the price brackets are fooling themselves. Most Porsche builds I have seen online and in dealerships are in the $140k-165k range; a "stripper" would be somewhere in the 125k range…..which is still $40k above a well optioned M3/M4.
That would be a very US thing. M3/4s in markets I specified have zero to little difference when compared with 718 GTS 4.0 (718 GTS 4.0 being cheaper by about $10K) and about $20K-30K difference when comparing similarly optioned 992 C2S.
A bit off topic but value retention is much higher for Pcars as well.
Even at 20-30k for a Carrera S in the market you specified, that's still a big jump.
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      07-26-2021, 03:29 PM   #354
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The 718 Spyder I just built came to 125k
And that's with me trying my best not to check every option because man it adds up fast

Porsche cars are absolute masterpieces

Especially a GT variant
Not sure what options you checked but my GT4 build comes at max $115k with carbon buckets and other goodies, could easily stay around $107K if I wanted more daily comfort and use my spare bucket seat for track days. A GTS 4.0 around $97K with full leather premium package, vented seats, etc with every performance option other than PCCB checked (there aren't many because a lot of them are standard). Now 992S is a different story..

M4C I built prices at around $88K without drivers assistance package and all performance options other than CCB checked. I skipped on the carbon fiber package that seemed to do nothing for performance.

So yeah, I don't see huge price difference even on USA configurators at $10-20K.
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      07-26-2021, 03:32 PM   #355
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Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
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Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
The 718 Spyder I just built came to 125k
And that's with me trying my best not to check every option because man it adds up fast

Porsche cars are absolute masterpieces

Especially a GT variant
Not sure what options you checked but my GT4 build comes at max $115k with carbon buckets and other goodies, could easily stay around $107K if I wanted more daily comfort and use my spare bucket seat for track days. A GTS 4.0 around $97K with full leather premium package, vented seats, etc with every performance option other than PCCB checked (there aren't many because a lot of them are standard). Now 992S is a different story..

M4C I built prices at around $88K without drivers assistance package and all performance options other than CCB checked. I skipped on the carbon fiber package that seemed to do nothing for performance.

So yeah, I don't see huge price difference even on USA configurators at $10-20K.
What? How do you not see a difference in U.S. configurators?!? Surely you aren't blind. A Carrera S starts at $117k in the U.S. while a G8X starts at, what…$72k here?!? How are you not seeing the vast difference in price?!? BEFORE any options there's a $45k delta. Even a base Carrera starts around $105k before any options, so still….$30k more before options.
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      07-26-2021, 03:33 PM   #356
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Even at 20-30k for a Carrera S in the market you specified, that's still a big jump.
Well, I think 718 GTS/GT4 drives better than C2S so I wouldn't stretch my legs for one.
If I don't have to deal with infuriating delay in response from slushboxes I am happy to pay that extra.
On the other hand, this whole ordeal of jumping to P cars would not be brought up in the first place if BMW offered DCT as performance option instead of carbon fiber exterior parts and covid mask decals.

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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
What? How do you not see a difference in U.S. configurators?!? Surely you aren't blind. A Carrera S starts at $117k in the U.S. while a G8X starts at, what…$72k here?!? How are you not seeing the vast difference in price?!? BEFORE any options there's a $45k delta. Even a vase Carrera starts around $105k before any options, so still….$30k more before options.
I did mention 992S is a different story in the US.
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      07-26-2021, 03:36 PM   #357
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Even at 20-30k for a Carrera S in the market you specified, that's still a big jump.
Well, I think 718 GTS/GT4 drives better than C2S so I wouldn't stretch my legs for one.
If I don't have to deal with infuriating delay in response from slushboxes I am happy to pay that extra.
On the other hand, this whole ordeal of jumping to P cars would not be brought up in the first place if BMW offered DCT as performance option instead of carbon fiber exterior parts and covid mask decals.
Wrong! BMW M owners have threatened/claimed to be jumping to Porsche for the past 20 years.
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      07-26-2021, 03:38 PM   #358
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Wrong! BMW M owners have threatened/claimed to be jumping to Porsche for the past 20 years.
You need to go back up to my first post, I did mention it was for particular markets that only offer auto. I am just relaying what I saw from fellow M enthusiasts in this market.
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      07-26-2021, 03:41 PM   #359
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Wrong! BMW M owners have threatened/claimed to be jumping to Porsche for the past 20 years.
You need to go back up to my first post, I did mention it was for particular markets that only offer auto. I am just relaying what I saw from fellow M enthusiasts in this market.
Auto or not, it's a running joke because it rarely ever happens. M owners always make the claim, but it's all talk 95% of the time. The reason is irrelevant.
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      07-26-2021, 03:42 PM   #360
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Bumper Motor Werks

1st we had the Bangle Butt, now the Flasch Bumper.
I think they should call this era of BMWs the Flasch Fiasco
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      07-26-2021, 04:04 PM   #361
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Auto or not, it's a running joke because it rarely ever happens. M owners always make the claim, but it's all talk 95% of the time. The reason is irrelevant.
That intrigues me.. is it because BMW M is relatively all over the place when Porsche stays consistent with their product philosophy i.e. build sports cars?

Such claim to switch is definitely much more pronounced from M customers in switching to Porsche than any other customers from the segment, so there must be a corresponding factor.
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      07-26-2021, 05:35 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Auto or not, it's a running joke because it rarely ever happens. M owners always make the claim, but it's all talk 95% of the time. The reason is irrelevant.
That intrigues me.. is it because BMW M is relatively all over the place when Porsche stays consistent with their product philosophy i.e. build sports cars?

Such claim to switch is definitely much more pronounced from M customers in switching to Porsche than any other customers from the segment, so there must be a corresponding factor.
I think it's because Porsche is the obtainable every day super car and is often deemed "the next logical step" for the BMW M driver. Judging by how many Porsche owners came from BMW M, there's probably a lot of truth to the speculation. Porsche basically builds two cars for a BMW M driver: the Boxster/Cayman and the Carrera……and their focus is significantly more narrowed than BMW's. People aren't typically going from a BMW M to a Ferrari or Lambo; people usually jump to those brands from Porsche.

If you look at my poll, for example, 246 people claim they will/would jump to Porsche because of the G8X. I would bet that number is really closer to 20, and I'm being generous AND including the 7 or so of us who have actually done it (…4 of the 7 have already posted their cars in the banned thread with CanAutM3 opting for the top dollar Turbo S; me and TheScout13 are awaiting the delivery of our C2S's at the end of the year; Arcades already had a Macan, but bought the GT4 instead of the G8X and I believe it'll be delivered by the end of the year as well). I bet we won't be seeing 246 "Hey guys! Look at my new Porsche" threads or posts popping up on Bimmerpost.

This tendency isn't born from/of the G8X though. Back when the E46 came out, people who didn't like it claimed they'd jump to the Porsche 996…..and so forth and so on throughout the years. There were a small handful that did - mostly to the 996 Turbo - and who posted/showcased their cars, but the rest simply stuck with BMW….

….until the next time they didn't like something and claimed, yet again, they'd be jumping to Porsche.
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      07-26-2021, 05:52 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
I think it's because Porsche is the obtainable every day super car and is often deemed "the next logical step" for the BMW M driver. Judging by how many Porsche owners came from BMW M, there's probably a lot of truth to the speculation. Porsche basically builds two cars for a BMW M driver: the Boxster/Cayman and the Carrera……and their focus is significantly more narrowed than BMW's. People aren't typically going from a BMW M to a Ferrari or Lambo; people usually jump to those brands from Porsche.

If you look at my poll, for example, 246 people claim they will/would jump to Porsche because of the G8X. I would bet that number is really closer to 20, and I'm being generous AND including the 7 or so of us who have actually done it (…4 of the 7 have already posted their cars in the banned thread; me and TheScout13 are awaiting the delivery of our cars at the end of the year; Arcades already had a Macan, but bought the GT4 instead of the G8X and I believe it'll be delivered by the end of the year as well). I bet we won't be seeing 246 "Hey guys! Look at my new Porsche" threads or posts popping up on Bimmerpost.

This tendency isn't born from/of the G8X though. Back when the E46 came out, people who didn't like it claimed they'd jump to the Porsche 996…..and so forth and so on throughout the years. There were a small handful that did - mostly to the 996 Turbo - and who posted/showcased their cars, but the rest simply stuck with BMW….

….until the next time they didn't like something and claimed, yet again, they'd be jumping to Porsche.
Sounds like BMW owners have been temperamental for a long time.
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      07-26-2021, 06:02 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
I think it's because Porsche is the obtainable every day super car and is often deemed "the next logical step" for the BMW M driver. Judging by how many Porsche owners came from BMW M, there's probably a lot of truth to the speculation. Porsche basically builds two cars for a BMW M driver: the Boxster/Cayman and the Carrera……and their focus is significantly more narrowed than BMW's. People aren't typically going from a BMW M to a Ferrari or Lambo; people usually jump to those brands from Porsche.

If you look at my poll, for example, 246 people claim they will/would jump to Porsche because of the G8X. I would bet that number is really closer to 20, and I'm being generous AND including the 7 or so of us who have actually done it (…4 of the 7 have already posted their cars in the banned thread; me and TheScout13 are awaiting the delivery of our cars at the end of the year; Arcades already had a Macan, but bought the GT4 instead of the G8X and I believe it'll be delivered by the end of the year as well). I bet we won't be seeing 246 "Hey guys! Look at my new Porsche" threads or posts popping up on Bimmerpost.

This tendency isn't born from/of the G8X though. Back when the E46 came out, people who didn't like it claimed they'd jump to the Porsche 996…..and so forth and so on throughout the years. There were a small handful that did - mostly to the 996 Turbo - and who posted/showcased their cars, but the rest simply stuck with BMW….

….until the next time they didn't like something and claimed, yet again, they'd be jumping to Porsche.
Sounds like BMW owners have been temperamental for a long time.
They have! That temperamental nature is what put Porsche on the map for me. When I left Honda in 2000/2001, the BMW M3 was the end all, be all for me. I didn't even recognize Porsche at the time. Fast forward to BMW M drivers always tossing the Porsche 996 into the mix, and I became curious/intrigued. I liked it…..I kinda wanted it, but I knew I couldn't afford it. Then later on it was the 997. I liked that car even more, but still couldn't afford it. Then the 991 hit the scene and finally there was a Porsche that I really wanted. I ran the numbers, but I couldn't make the jump comfortably. I drooled….and lusted after the 991…….but then the 992 hit the scene and I was in love. I mean, Margot Robbie in love!!!!! Then the market went nuts, the pandemic caused chip shortages, the 992 could be had with a delay AND I sold my M4 that netted me a significant chunk of equity in my pocket; it was the perfect storm. That perfect storm allowed for a $50k down payment that made the 992 a reality. Absent that storm, I would be in a G82 right now.
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      07-26-2021, 06:03 PM   #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
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Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
The 718 Spyder I just built came to 125k
And that's with me trying my best not to check every option because man it adds up fast

Porsche cars are absolute masterpieces

Especially a GT variant
Not sure what options you checked but my GT4 build comes at max $115k with carbon buckets and other goodies, could easily stay around $107K if I wanted more daily comfort and use my spare bucket seat for track days. A GTS 4.0 around $97K with full leather premium package, vented seats, etc with every performance option other than PCCB checked (there aren't many because a lot of them are standard). Now 992S is a different story..

M4C I built prices at around $88K without drivers assistance package and all performance options other than CCB checked. I skipped on the carbon fiber package that seemed to do nothing for performance.

So yeah, I don't see huge price difference even on USA configurators at $10-20K.
Go build a Spyder with paint and the seats with a few basic changes it's ridiculous how fast shit adds up

$125k usd is on the low end for Spyder builds

I was being conservative something that I am not very often
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      07-26-2021, 06:08 PM   #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
They have! That temperamental nature is what put Porsche on the map for me. When I left Honda in 2000/2001, the BMW M3 was the end all, be all for me. I didn't even recognize Porsche at the time. Fast forward to BMW M drivers always tossing the Porsche 996 into the mix, and I became curious/intrigued. I liked it…..I kinda wanted it, but I knew I couldn't afford it. Then later on it was the 997. I liked that car even more, but still couldn't afford it. Then the 991 hit the scene and finally there was a Porsche that I really wanted. I ran the numbers, but I couldn't make the jump comfortably. I drooled….and lusted after the 991…….but then the 992 hit the scene and I was in love. I mean, Margot Robbie in love!!!!! Then the market went nuts, the pandemic caused chip shortages, the 992 could be had with a delay AND I sold my M4 that netted me a significant chunk of equity in my pocket; it was the perfect storm. That perfect storm allowed for a $50k down payment that made the 992 a reality. Absent that storm, I would be in a G82 right now.
Man I would love to buy a Porsche but they are not as fast as the M3 even up to 120K that I can see. You have to start getting to 175K to get close to the same horsepower. Of course I freely admit I have no idea what I’m talking about when it comes to Porsche so maybe lower horsepower is faster but I don’t know. I’ve always loved how they look but I also love how the G80 looks. If I were to dump BMW and go to Porsche I wouldn’t mind spending 20% more money but I would expect 20% more power. I can’t get that can I?
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      07-26-2021, 06:12 PM   #367
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
They have! That temperamental nature is what put Porsche on the map for me. When I left Honda in 2000/2001, the BMW M3 was the end all, be all for me. I didn't even recognize Porsche at the time. Fast forward to BMW M drivers always tossing the Porsche 996 into the mix, and I became curious/intrigued. I liked it…..I kinda wanted it, but I knew I couldn't afford it. Then later on it was the 997. I liked that car even more, but still couldn't afford it. Then the 991 hit the scene and finally there was a Porsche that I really wanted. I ran the numbers, but I couldn't make the jump comfortably. I drooled….and lusted after the 991…….but then the 992 hit the scene and I was in love. I mean, Margot Robbie in love!!!!! Then the market went nuts, the pandemic caused chip shortages, the 992 could be had with a delay AND I sold my M4 that netted me a significant chunk of equity in my pocket; it was the perfect storm. That perfect storm allowed for a $50k down payment that made the 992 a reality. Absent that storm, I would be in a G82 right now.
Man I would love to buy a Porsche but they are not as fast as the M3 even up to 120K that I can see. You have to start getting to 175K to get close to the same horsepower. Of course I freely admit I have no idea what I'm talking about when it comes to Porsche so maybe lower horsepower is faster but I don't know. I've always loved how they look but I also love how the G80 looks. If I were to dump BMW and go to Porsche I wouldn't mind spending 20% more money but I would expect 20% more power. I can't get that can I?
Well the G8X and the Carrera S are fairly close in a straight line, but it's on the track where you'll have the advantage in the Porsche. The 992 Turbo is bonkers fast; like….faaaaaaaassssttt…….but it's also $250k+ in real time.

I think most people who play in the realm of "lower end" Porsches understand you can get more for your money with an M3. I think outright speed takes a back seat to everything else when you start driving the Porsches. I didn't "get it" until I test drove a few 991's and a 992 after deciding to cancel my G82 and get the 992 C2S. Immediately it felt special, and I was only sampling base Carrera's. It literally feels like you're driving a high end go kart and the inputs are cerebral. That's the best way for me to describe how the car reacts to you. I've become so accustomed to how it feels to drive BMW M's that moving to the Porsche will require some adjustment time before I'm comfortable. I can't imagine what the experience will be like once mine arrives and I log significant seat time. I'll be making a thread about it too.
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      07-26-2021, 07:59 PM   #368
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I feel 90% of the time when people said they are going to jump ship to Porsche it’s like my angry wife saying to me I am going to divorce you. Yeah she has been saying that for quite a number of years now
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      07-26-2021, 10:33 PM   #369
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Honestly, I hate it. Maybe the design will grow on me like the G80 did.
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      07-27-2021, 01:22 AM   #370
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We went from a lot of excitement from all the spy shots, insert horizontal grills, and now everyone's losing their minds? Huh? They're not that bad…

We have a wide, aggressively styled, RWD, 6MT, 450+ HP, modern/luxurious interior BMW. Let's all calm down.
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      07-27-2021, 08:05 AM   #371
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Go build a Spyder with paint and the seats with a few basic changes it's ridiculous how fast shit adds up

$125k usd is on the low end for Spyder builds

I was being conservative something that I am not very often
You must be selecting an individual paint/special color then. I maxed out a GT4 that has $3K higher base price than Spyder at 120K with racing yellow, PDK, PDLS+, SC, leather with deviated stitching, Bose and carbon bucket seats. Switch to MT, remove bucket seats and replace with silver stitched leather then I am comfortable at 111K.

This is not my first time with P cars; it is possible to option them nicely without compromising daily comfort. Other than few core options, there are extras that simply add weight and complexity.
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      07-27-2021, 10:07 AM   #372
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One thing I find interesting about these shots is actually the X5Ms grille. Makes me wonder if all M cars will get horizontal grilles now

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...ced-road-tests
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      07-27-2021, 10:10 AM   #373
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We went from a lot of excitement from all the spy shots, insert horizontal grills, and now everyone's losing their minds? Huh? They're not that bad…

We have a wide, aggressively styled, RWD, 6MT, 450+ HP, modern/luxurious interior BMW. Let's all calm down.
The truth is some men just have a very difficult time with change. That’s why these type of men don’t run big companies like Apple or Samsung. If they did we still have the iPhone 1 and black and white television sets.
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      07-27-2021, 10:13 AM   #374
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Drives: 2020 M2C
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Location: South America

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This M2's render the front is looking very Audi A1-esque from the old generation?



Maybe this new front bumper is not the M2/M2C bumper, but the CS version for a more aggressive race car look a la GT2 RS? Probably some grill or other decoration is missing from the center bottom part to fill in the bumper and it won't be so squared there?
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