[Car-Addicted]

No it's not the Onion, it's BMW
June 22, 2024
You need an automatic transmission to extract every last drop of performance from a sports car. However, enthusiasts agree that rowing your own gears is more fun. BMW knows that, and it might try to save the stick shift in the electric era. M boss Frank van Meel told Top Gear magazine the engineers have been tinkering with simulated gearboxes.
Interestingly, BMW M has been investigating artificial transmissions for several years already and it apparently has come up with “very interesting approaches.” The mayor of M Town praised Hyundai for implementing emulated gear changes in the Ioniq 5 N. Frank van Meel also had positive things to say about the hot electric crossover’s fake engine noises. The M branch is working on both “features” since they’re apparently necessary.
The two higher-ups from M didn’t specify which models could get artificial gear changes. However, we do know the first full-fat M electric car will be a sports sedan akin to the M3. It’s expected to land around 2027 with roughly 700 horsepower and rear-wheel drive. Unlike today’s CLAR-based hot EVs, it’ll be underpinned by the Neue Klasse platform. The architecture is being developed exclusively for electric cars. Today’s EVs from Munich have their roots in cars that use combustion engines.
https://www.bmwblog.com/2024/06/22/b...electric-cars/

[LuisBoston]

This is a fun read:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews...mw-m3-manual/#

[Car-Addicted]

BMW M Bosses Reveal the Secrets Behind M's Future Electric Vehicle
Jun 24, 2024
"Our philosophy is to be neutral, linear, predictable," Häcker said. "That will open a new door for the future."
But they're trying to avoid gimmicks, like fake engine noises of the sort found in the Hyundai Ioniq 5 N — a sports EV developed with plenty of feedback from former M boss Albert Biermann. Van Meel, the current M CEO calls this "the wrong approach." He admits you need some form of feedback to help gauge your speed, particularly on the track: "If you look at your speedometer, two cars pass you by." Van Meel says that M is working on a new solution to this problem, something equally suited for racing and the road, but wouldn't provide any hints on exactly what it might be.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a6...-ev-interview/

Two interviews with BMW exec's and two different directions?

[Sneaky Pete]

Having sat in and driven quite a few EVs...for me the mistake is that manufacturers believe that they need to design car that is a completely different drive to a std ICE car.
The i4 M50 for instance, even with its neck breaking instant acceleration party trick, is not a fun car to drive.
Don't mind the lack of sound but the rest is plain boring.
They need to design a car that is to all intents and purposes a typical ICE car with only the engine replaced with an electric motor.
It needs to look the same and drive the same.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

They need to design a car that is to all intents and purposes a typical ICE car with only the engine replaced with an electric motor.
It needs to look the same and drive the same.

Isn't that literally what the i4 is? It's a 4 series with an EV motor instead of an ICE. It's even built on the same platform and has the same interior.

[Car-Addicted]

So we want EV's with manual transmissions. We want EV's with an engine sound. We want an EV that is lighter.
Here's a thought, BUY A ICE BMW!

[pikkagtr]

BMW following in Hyundai footsteps
I guess when you employ Bierman you get innovation
And when you lost Bierman you end up with buck toothed beaver mouth 4100 lb AWD automatic M3s

[BlkGS]

It was inevitable. They've been faking shifts on CVTs for decades now.

[Efthreeoh]

"And by the way, they're real and they're spectacular."

[chris719]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Those aren’t fake, but I get what you’re saying, they aren’t necessary.

Some of them are, depends on which CVT we are talking.

Overall this is a mistake. If anyone has learned anything from Tesla it should be that the EV should lean in to being an EV and do not give us fake shifts and fake sound.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by chris719

Some of them are, depends on which CVT we are talking.

Overall this is a mistake. If anyone has learned anything from Tesla it should be that the EV should lean in to being an EV and do not give us fake shifts and fake sound.

Disagree. The only thing to learn from Tesla is "lie about specs and price them cheap".

[BMWbiker]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

No it's not the Onion, it's BMW
June 22, 2024
You need an automatic transmission to extract every last drop of performance from a sports car. However, enthusiasts agree that rowing your own gears is more fun. BMW knows that, and it might try to save the stick shift in the electric era. M boss Frank van Meel told Top Gear magazine the engineers have been tinkering with simulated gearboxes.
Interestingly, BMW M has been investigating artificial transmissions for several years already and it apparently has come up with “very interesting approaches.” The mayor of M Town praised Hyundai for implementing emulated gear changes in the Ioniq 5 N. Frank van Meel also had positive things to say about the hot electric crossover’s fake engine noises. The M branch is working on both “features” since they’re apparently necessary.
The two higher-ups from M didn’t specify which models could get artificial gear changes. However, we do know the first full-fat M electric car will be a sports sedan akin to the M3. It’s expected to land around 2027 with roughly 700 horsepower and rear-wheel drive. Unlike today’s CLAR-based hot EVs, it’ll be underpinned by the Neue Klasse platform. The architecture is being developed exclusively for electric cars. Today’s EVs from Munich have their roots in cars that use combustion engines.
https://www.bmwblog.com/2024/06/22/b...electric-cars/

“Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard….”

—Dr. Strangelove

[Sneaky Pete]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Isn't that literally what the i4 is? It's a 4 series with an EV motor instead of an ICE. It's even built on the same platform and has the same interior.

True they have used the same platform...complete with its boxy EV style dashboard...but its against the general trend in EV design.
Cue more exceptions.
I'm not against EVs at all..ICE cars are a dead format walking (driving).
But I've not driven an EV yet that I would like to own, the nearest being a Tesla S 100D...the first EV I ever drove.

The i4 M50 should have ticked most all the boxes yet despite having it on extended loan I gave it back after an hour or so...it was just no fun to drive.

[secretsquirrel]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

....m not against EVs at all..ICE cars are a dead format walking (driving).
But I've not driven an EV yet that I would like to own, the nearest being a Tesla S 100D...the first EV I ever drove.

The i4 M50 should have ticked most all the boxes yet despite having it on extended loan I gave it back after an hour or so...it was just no fun to drive.

Agree with everything you said.
EV's make the most sense for 90% of drivers. My Tesla has been completely maint free and trouble free for 40k miles. Also, leaving the house with a "full tank" is unbeatable, especially during the winter when gassing up sucks. Not to mention the super quick acceleration, and the ability to push the car a million times without the fear of something breaking.

BUT, I miss the growl of an engine and the sound of an exhaust. It is purely an emotional yearning I have for another M car that is impossible to justify financially. But the heart wants what it wants.

[BlkGS]

IMO, BEVs are gonna go down as a funny stopgap we had before synthetic fuels were commonplace. ER EVs I can see becoming a dominant force, but the idea of big battery EVs being the future is laughable to me.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

IMO, BEVs are gonna go down as a funny stopgap we had before synthetic fuels were commonplace.

I like your thinking but I wouldn't bet folding money on that.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

I like your thinking but I wouldn't bet folding money on that.

It all depends on if the big money pushes it away or not. It seems to have enough of its own big money behind it that it could happen. The fact that it can be run in any existing gasoline motor and use all the existing gasoline distribution infrastructure doesn't hurt.

It has the same.drawback.as EVs too, you need a lot more energy production to make it work. I could easily see future vehicles being ER EVs, using electric motors for propulsion, a small battery for daily use, and a generator running on synthetic fuels to extend range.

[MADBMWX5MC]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

So we want EV's with manual transmissions. We want EV's with an engine sound. We want an EV that is lighter.
Here's a thought, BUY A ICE BMW!

Ha, well said and spot on...

[Sneaky Pete]

Originally Posted by secretsquirrel

Agree with everything you said.
EV's make the most sense for 90% of drivers. My Tesla has been completely maint free and trouble free for 40k miles. Also, leaving the house with a "full tank" is unbeatable, especially during the winter when gassing up sucks. Not to mention the super quick acceleration, and the ability to push the car a million times without the fear of something breaking.

I had a long drive in the Tesla S including a stop at a motorway service station for a demonstration of how the recharging system worked. Talking to other Tesla S owners at the charging station I was surprised by the 100% positive opinions of these owners of the Tesla. Owners who often owned other high end ICE cars.
I was quite taken by the Tesla, it was a good looking car with a nice interior, fast and handled well. But the price at that time was seriously high in the UK. Putting it in competition with a lightly used 911 turbo.

Originally Posted by secretsquirrel

BUT, I miss the growl of an engine and the sound of an exhaust. It is purely an emotional yearning I have for another M car that is impossible to justify financially. But the heart wants what it wants.

If BMW could take away my M5, swap out the motor and turn it into an EV, I could just about live without the sound along as it drove *exactly the same* as it does now in every respect complete with the ZF transmission.

[G30M]

i hear the S58 is pretty reliable, so if i get one of the last few ones I won't have this problem. i already have a cheap Kia EV, does the job.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by secretsquirrel

Agree with everything you said.
EV's make the most sense for 90% of drivers. My Tesla has been completely maint free and trouble free for 40k miles. Also, leaving the house with a "full tank" is unbeatable, especially during the winter when gassing up sucks. Not to mention the super quick acceleration, and the ability to push the car a million times without the fear of something breaking.

BUT, I miss the growl of an engine and the sound of an exhaust. It is purely an emotional yearning I have for another M car that is impossible to justify financially. But the heart wants what it wants.

But 90% of drivers can't charge overnight at home; it's more like 30%. That's why the EV market in the US is currently at 8%.

[NickyC]

I just want nothing to do with these cars. They’re going to save me a lot of money in the years ahead.