[baron95]

Originally Posted by chris719

Alll Euro OEM pads work this way and have for 30 years. They do not need to be bedded, don't benefit from it, and smoking has nothing to do with need to be bedded in. All you did is reduce the life of the pads and rotors.

Humm.... the smoking and burning smell is the cooking off and out venting the gases from the resins used during pad manufacturing. I certainly don't want those gases between my pads and rotors on track.

And I'm quite sure that European manufacturers like BMW M and Porsche have brake bed-in recommended procedures in their manuals.

In any event lets see how they behave.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by baron95

Humm.... the smoking and burning smell is the cooking off and out venting the gases from the resins used during pad manufacturing. I certainly don't want those gases between my pads and rotors on track.

And I'm quite sure that European manufacturers like BMW M and Porsche have brake bed-in recommended procedures in their manuals.

In any event lets see how they behave.

Stock pads are not suitable for track use and they are smoking because you are cooking the material every time you do it. It will always smoke when you get them up to a certain temperature. There is no bed-in procedure in the manual for M cars, in fact, I believe they say to drive gently for 300 miles or something like that. These is the exact same friction material that comes on a M340i, M240i, 330i, or 230i coupe. It is a street-only pad made for high bite in all weather conditions. The pads say Brembo on the shim but the stamped lettering shows they are made by Akebono, Textar, or Pagid (same formula). You can look at the material and see it is the same as all regular BMWs except the FWD cars that use some kind of super low dust pad.

[KC87ZB]

Originally Posted by baron95

I never change just pads though. When I change pads, I also bleed the brakes to get rid or the old brake fluid that just bakes in the caliper - this way I always have fresh fluid in - better than doing a flush once a year, so it takes me about 1 hr per axle.

Should always bleed brakes/change fluid after a track day.

I personally don't know enough about the stock compound on BMW M brakes but I would assume that they are not specifically track focused since the G87 is a street car first. Knowing that, I would use a more track focused pad for track days. Swapping them doesn't take that long and you should bleed the fluid anyway.

[Carefree]

Originally Posted by baron95

Interesting - I have 1,200 miles and no peep yet from the brakes and I'm 2 weeks away from first track day. So I will have to see how they perform after they wear off.

I did bed them in and they smelled and smoked like an SoB, so I submit that they still need to be bedded in.

If it is true that they are relying just on abrasion that is bad news and that will eat pads and rotors on track like a b@$#.

My brakes were a bit noisy for the first 1500 or so miles. I expected it. Today at 2500, they are dead silent.

Just messy.

[Autobahn SoCal]

Originally Posted by M_Power Rob

I have a 23 M240...no brake squeal whatsoever since day 1 to now (over 7,000 miles).

G8X brakes are completely different. M2 has higher performance compounds than the M240 which is why most G8X brakes make noise. All G42 (230 / M240) share the same compound as well with the M Sport brakes, but if someone has noise with those it is not normal and should be repaired.

[jessejericho]

So I'm about to hit 3,000km (around 1850 miles) with my M2, and I have the most obnoxious, embarrassing squealing during light braking... ie when the streets are full of people, staring at my $90k car for the wrong reasons. Should I take this to the dealer? Are they going to offer a solution, or is this just something I have to accept? It is "windows-down" season, and it's already killing me.

*edit* did a bit more reading, sorry for the bump. Looks like this is "normal" for an M car, and the only real solution is $800 in iSweep brake pads. Not too impressed.

[m2not1LE]

Originally Posted by baron95

You and me both. I had an SS1LE prior to this M2 and not a peep for the 6-pot fronts and 4-pot rear Brembos. And I have run exclusively track pads on it (multiple brands) and never, ever had any squeal. Before that I had a C7 Vette - same story - exclusively track pads not a peep. Before that a Mustang with Brembo brakes that would squeal like a MF with track pads on, but never with the OEM "track pack" pads.

These brake systems can be designed to not squeal. I'm not sure why BMW can't get it done even with the OEM pads.

SS 1LE is still a pretty serious handling car by front/rear passenger vehicle standards?

How does the M2 honestly compare to the SS 1LE in that regard?

FYI: I had a then new special order '99 1LE Z28 and have a 2025 M2 on order pending allocation.

- Bob

[BackOnBlack]

Originally Posted by jessejericho

*edit* did a bit more reading, sorry for the bump. Looks like this is "normal" for an M car, and the only real solution is $800 in iSweep brake pads. Not too impressed.

For the noise, it is not the only solution, read some more.

[jessejericho]

Originally Posted by BackOnBlack

For the noise, it is not the only solution, read some more.

I read the whole thread. Did you? Washing and then doing 70-0 braking 5 times, or spraying SBS on the rotors? Temporary, annoying solutions with YMMV results. If I missed something important, let me know!

I never hear a Porsche squealing up to a stop sign. Just really disappointing in an otherwise amazing car that I'm loving.

[Carefree]

Originally Posted by jessejericho

I read the whole thread. Did you? Washing and then doing 70-0 braking 5 times, or spraying SBS on the rotors? Temporary, annoying solutions with YMMV results. If I missed something important, let me know!

I never hear a Porsche squealing up to a stop sign. Just really disappointing in an otherwise amazing car that I'm loving.

Just my $.02 here but if the noise won’t get you, the brake dust will.
Good luck.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by m2not1LE

SS 1LE is still a pretty serious handling car by front/rear passenger vehicle standards?

How does the M2 honestly compare to the SS 1LE in that regard?

FYI: I had a then new special order '99 1LE Z28 and have a 2025 M2 on order pending allocation.

- Bob

My 2018 SS1LE Manual was more analog, more visceral (outrageous V8 sound) and a better track car out of the box.

The M2 is a much better street car in all aspects (visibility, noise levels, space for items in the cabin, display, etc). It somehow feels like a much smaller car (it is not) and I love it much more than the 1LE.

It is very competent at the track, but with lower grip limits with the stock PS4S, than the 1LE on the GYSC3s. It seems to have slightly more power, but I'm still ~1 sec slower/1 min of lap time.

I think switching to forged wheels and a tire more in line with the the GYSC3 that is standard in the 1LE they will be very close.

Only thing I really don't like about the M2 is the ridiculous fact that front camber is not adjustable - crazy in a sports "M" car - unless you go aftermarket. Also everything is more delicate on the M2 - for example the lug nuts on the 1LE are massive 22mm and torqued to 140 ftlbs. On the M2 they are dainty 17 mm bolts torqued to ~100 ftlbs - but have to trust the German engineering here.

Another difference is that the rear of the M2 is never settled - it is moving ALL the time on track Kind of fun, but different than the 1LE which is as predictable as the Porsche 20HP increase with every generation.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by baron95

….for example the lug nuts on the 1LE are massive 22mm and torqued to 140 ftlbs. On the M2 they are dainty 17 mm bolts torqued to ~100 ftlbs - but have to trust the German engineering here.

The Camaro wheel studs at M14x1.5 class 10.9 thread are exactly the same size as the M2 M14x1.5 bolts, the head size is immaterial. GM using 190Nm torque is right at the stress limit for that thread size, BMW at 140Nm gives a lot more margin for error before stud/bolt damage due to over tightening. 17mm socket size allows smaller wheel holes, leading to a stronger hub area of the wheel due to less material needing to be removed for larger socket clearance.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by aerobod

The Camaro wheel studs at M14x1.5 class 10.9 thread are exactly the same size as the M2 M14x1.5 bolts, the head size is immaterial. GM using 190Nm torque is right at the stress limit for that thread size, BMW at 140Nm gives a lot more margin for error before stud/bolt damage due to over tightening. 17mm socket size allows smaller wheel holes, leading to a stronger hub area of the wheel due to less material needing to be removed for larger socket clearance.

Interesting perspective - thanks for taking the time to post this reply. I feel slightly better.

But putting a 22mm socket on my Camaro and JL Rubicon lugs is still much more satisfying - and the 140ftlbs and 130ftlbs respectively have at least a mild placebo effect

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by baron95

Interesting perspective - thanks for taking the time to post this reply. I feel slightly better.

But putting a 22mm socket on my Camaro and JL Rubicon lugs is still much more satisfying - and the 140ftlbs and 130ftlbs respectively have at least a mild placebo effect

For overkill, my 13” wheels on a 540kg Caterham use a 19mm socket for the wheel nuts and M12 wheel studs.

With wheel bolts the head can be a lot smaller, M14 wheel nuts couldn’t use a 17mm socket as the wall thickness would be too thin. A standard nut uses a socket about 1.5 times the thread diameter, so 21 or 22mm is the correct size for an M14 nut.