[aaronblack]

Hi all,

Long story short, I've been following Will's post and up until now have managed to fix almost everything on my N53 330i (big thanks to Will) yet the last thing standing is to sort out the NOx issue.

Now as it seems bimmerprofs are not too keen on NOx deletes, with claims that deleting/mapping out the NOx could cause issues down the line, not sure how true this is, whether they’re just trying to sell their product etc. but here is what they say:

"In no way, the N43/N53 series engine can work without NOx system. “Disconnection” of the NOx system in any way is the shortest way to huge problems in the nearest or further future."

Now from the 2 options available NOxEM or NOx delete, does anyone have any preference/tips/guide etc. which to go for? Deleting is cheaper option, and FYI I’ve already gotten rid of the secondary Cats!
- Does NOxEM really provide better efficiency (up to 25%) over deleting?
- Does deleting cause any issues (providing it’s done by the right person)?
- Would the car still run Stratified mode with deleting? I know it does with NOxEM

[Dormermike]

My take on noxem explanation is that coding out NOx actually just hides it and doesn't remove all the logic and stuff from the DME, just hides the codes. In future when someone else comes along trying to figure out poor MPG or rough running or whatever there will be no codes so they'll presume NOx running correctly.

Just get noxem it'll pay for itself. I've had my n53 four years and it still amazes me how good the economy can be. I have it in 272ps form in an F10 and I don't hang about but at the end of a 44 mile trip last week, in traffic, it showed 39.something mpg and I certainly don't drive like miss daisy.

[aaronblack]

I had assumed that coding out was just another method, yet from what you're saying it appears that by coding the car will never run stratified which makes me think what is the point of coding! Specially after what Will said when i asked the question

"Mapping out the Nox is essentially the same result as noxem both are fooling the car in to thinking the box sensor is either giving good data (noxem)or the data doesn't matter (mapped out). Same result two different ways of achieving it."

[Will_460cs]

Coding out out the NOX will enable it to run stratified... This is how my car is running ;-)

325i, 3l, 3 stage manifold, remap with nox delete running stratified with a slightly broken nox sensor!

With 325i is no brainer to remap. 330I is marginal BHP improvement maybe 10-15bhp...

To really make it work and sound better with either NOXEM or Remap/NOX code out it would be best to remove the exhaust mid section with the Nox cat as both solutions are fooling the ecu in different ways..

[Tr1ppy]

Originally Posted by Will_460cs

Coding out out the NOX will enable it to run stratified... This is how my car is running ;-)

325i, 3l, 3 stage manifold, remap with nox delete running stratified with a slightly broken nox sensor!

With 325i is no brainer to remap. 330I is marginal BHP improvement maybe 10-15bhp...

To really make it work and sound better with either NOXEM or Remap/NOX code out it would be best to remove the exhaust mid section with the Nox cat as both solutions are fooling the ecu in different ways..

Interesting, thats exactly what I want to do with my 330i (not much gain I know); code out the Nox sensor and remove secondary cats.

Where did you get yours remapped if you dont mind me asking? And did you get a before/after printout?

[aaronblack]

Originally Posted by Will_460cs

Coding out out the NOX will enable it to run stratified... This is how my car is running ;-)

325i, 3l, 3 stage manifold, remap with nox delete running stratified with a slightly broken nox sensor!

With 325i is no brainer to remap. 330I is marginal BHP improvement maybe 10-15bhp...

To really make it work and sound better with either NOXEM or Remap/NOX code out it would be best to remove the exhaust mid section with the Nox cat as both solutions are fooling the ecu in different ways..

So which would you advise/recommend Will? I've already deleted the secondary cats with the Direnza pipe as you advised!

NOxEM and Maptech NOx delete both cost about the same! Just not sure which method to go for (reliability, efficiency etc.)

Maptech charges £70 extra for a rolling map for the 330i which although don't add much I think it may improve the throttle response!

[aaronblack]

Originally Posted by Tr1ppy

Interesting, thats exactly what I want to do with my 330i (not much gain I know); code out the Nox sensor and remove secondary cats.

Where did you get yours remapped if you dont mind me asking? And did you get a before/after printout?

I believe Will used Maptech, I've spoken to them and they charge £280+vat for NOx delete and cat delete or £370+vat for remap on-top!

[Will_460cs]

Originally Posted by Tr1ppy

Interesting, thats exactly what I want to do with my 330i (not much gain I know); code out the Nox sensor and remove secondary cats.

Where did you get yours remapped if you dont mind me asking? And did you get a before/after printout?

Originally Posted by Tr1ppy

Interesting, thats exactly what I want to do with my 330i (not much gain I know); code out the Nox sensor and remove secondary cats.

Where did you get yours remapped if you dont mind me asking? And did you get a before/after printout?

It just one nox cat in the mid pipe... direnza make a cheap stainless mid pipe that you can pick up for about £150 that has alll the right holes for sensors etc.. it advertised on eBay and other places as a 325i n53 middle pipe but it's the same for 330i as well.

Maptexh did my map... I got 272 with some old injectors and plugs I expect the car is now 285!ish... would like to get it back on the rr to confirm it certainly allot healthier now than before (injectors).

[Will_460cs]

Originally Posted by aaronblack

So which would you advise/recommend Will? I've already deleted the secondary cats with the Direnza pipe as you advised!

NOxEM and Maptech NOx delete both cost about the same! Just not sure which method to go for (reliability, efficiency etc.)

Maptech charges £70 extra for a rolling map for the 330i which although don't add much I think it may improve the throttle response!

Originally Posted by Tr1ppy

Interesting, thats exactly what I want to do with my 330i (not much gain I know); code out the Nox sensor and remove secondary cats.

Where did you get yours remapped if you dont mind me asking? And did you get a before/after printout?

If it was me I'd remap it, mid range response was allot better. But it's all subjective.. I'd also make sure I had some new plugs in and check my coil packs to make sure there in good shape .. ie no arcing marks discolouration etc

[aaronblack]

Originally Posted by Will_460cs

If it was me I'd remap it, mid range response was allot better. But it's all subjective.. I'd also make sure I had some new plugs in and check my coil packs to make sure there in good shape .. ie no arcing marks discolouration etc

Cheers for that! Has your mpg improved too? As most with NOxEM claim around 40mpg easy on steady runs?

Just trying to see if the remap makes the car as efficient as NOxEM! Specially as bimmerprof claims that NOxEM improves efficiency up-to 10% over a fully working OEM NOx system!

[Tr1ppy]

Cheers guys I'll look into it! Definitely deleting the Nox cats in a few months and then should going down the remap + Nox delete route.

I changed all injectors, coils and plugs late last year so they should be good for the remap.

[Will_460cs]

Originally Posted by aaronblack

Cheers for that! Has your mpg improved too? As most with NOxEM claim around 40mpg easy on steady runs?

Just trying to see if the remap makes the car as efficient as NOxEM! Specially as bimmerprof claims that NOxEM improves efficiency up-to 10% over a fully working OEM NOx system!

Bimerproffs fuel gain is though the regained use of stratified mode which is disabled if there is a nox fault, so its not improving anything over what the factory gave it.

I do a 15 mile commute daily mixed driving I get 31-36 mpg dependent on loud pedal use...

I also get around 400 - 420 miles on normal mixed driving up to 450+ for long trips.

Mainly a roads and 2 small market towns so 11 miles on a road and 2 miles in a town.

[aaronblack]

That's exactly what I thought, until I read their FAQ which states by delaying Cat regeneration they apparently have been able to save an additional 10% over the OEM system!

But not too fussed about that, as at the moment on my 25 mile commute (each way) I'm only getting 28mpg at around 68mph! So long that this improves with the remap I'll happy!

[jirka330i]

Originally Posted by Will_460cs

If it was me I'd remap it, mid range response was allot better. But it's all subjective.. I'd also make sure I had some new plugs in and check my coil packs to make sure there in good shape .. ie no arcing marks discolouration etc

Hallo. I have followed your discussion in this thread with high level of interest as I have become myself a victim of noxem marketing in May of this year and "enjoyed" the experience of claiming its failure (still think that it was originally very good product but when costs saving launched and production outsourced somewhere to people republic of xy it became a questionable and tricky piece of s....t). Now, I have back in the car but knowing many construction details, I do not dream about its lifetime and prepare myself for the remap/ nox system delete. As I checked in my country there are already few garages doing nox delete....but only version which allows the engine to run in homogenous mode (which is also not bad because emissions in this mode are apparently low compared to stratified charge....which was designed for fuel economy but its emissions ruin costly and fragile nox system ), but it seems that some of you have enjoyed remap which allows both homogenous and stratified modes. Can you please provide some details on the remap? Thank you

[Dormermike]

Originally Posted by jirka330i

Hallo. I have followed your discussion in this thread with high level of interest as I have become myself a victim of noxem marketing in May of this year and "enjoyed" the experience of claiming its failure (still think that it was originally very good product but when costs saving launched and production outsourced somewhere to people republic of xy it became a questionable and tricky piece of s....t). Now, I have back in the car but knowing many construction details, I do not dream about its lifetime and prepare myself for the remap/ nox system delete. As I checked in my country there are already few garages doing nox delete....but only version which allows the engine to run in homogenous mode (which is also not bad because emissions in this mode are apparently low compared to stratified charge....which was designed for fuel economy but its emissions ruin costly and fragile nox system ), but it seems that some of you have enjoyed remap which allows both homogenous and stratified modes. Can you please provide some details on the remap? Thank you

Appreciate English is not your first language but could you clarify about noxem please?

Are you saying you bought noxem, and it then developed a fault but bimmerprofs would not replace it?

How did you discover that noxem is faulty?
How long did noxem last before a fault developed?

Thanks

[jirka330i]

Originally Posted by Dormermike

Appreciate English is not your first language but could you clarify about noxem please?

Are you saying you bought noxem, and it then developed a fault but bimmerprofs would not replace it?

How did you discover that noxem is faulty?
How long did noxem last before a fault developed?

Thanks

It took 3 weeks of normal noxem operation (after full adaptations succesfully done) to the first 2EAE error recorded...I was regularly/ weekly checking with Inpa...in next 3 weeks the same 2EAE errror appeared several times and then it became permanent. When I claimed that to bimmerprofs the response was that this is no way problem of noxem but of my car; very self confidently they claimed wrongly connected noxem in the first stage so I went to the garage for the check and it was not the case; then they said it must be the connector itself...and another journey to the garage to proof it was not the case; then they pointed electric installation issue or canbus issue...and another check at the garage...at this stage I was fed up and asked the mechanic to put my old bmw nox back...and surprise- no errors!!! (which I recorded and reported to bimmeprofs...who were still convinced it is not noxem failure... and they said that I can send noxem back for test...at my expense...). Finally, when noxem arrived there and they checked...it was noxem failure...apparently a construction/technology weakness- on the board of noxem...it is dual layer board where there are connections between both layers at couple of places...and these are made by galvanization (which was rather surprise for me as I know a bit about this...and normally the boards for industrial usage have more reliable way of layer connections- inserts)...and in my noxem one or more of these connections broke...which is not surprising considering the placement of noxem on the car body (vibrations etc)- as the galvanized layer is only few mikrons thick and if for example drilling is rough, the galvanized layer in the hole is very fragile. I guess that my noxem was just one of many in certain lot of production where this weakness has just been a ticking bomb depending on number of factors...also the body of noxem which looks robust at the first sight might be another long term weakness...the cover is glued by some kind of silicone and I wonder how long this keeps the board of noxem protected from extreme conditions...when I compared that to my old bmw nox sensor which I opened and compared the build quality I stopped to dream about noxem lifetime.
Another surprise which my mechanic experienced when taking sensor head of noxem out of exhaust was broken thread insert...the head is bosch (although bimmerprofs themselves claim at their web that the only company capable of producing high quality nox heads is ngk...in fact my mechanic who had hundreds of sensors in his hands still believes it is rather standard oxygen sensor delivering some signal from exhaust to the unit which is then twisted into set of information which msd80 wants to hear...) and has M18x1,5 thread...while original bmw nox is M20x1,5...this difference is covered by another fragile (but cheap) piece of metal in the form of thread insert; although my mechanic put a loctite antiseize on it when installing...6 weeks later it stayed in the hole in the exhaust...(mean while bosch m18 head went easily out ) and then it broke in 2 parts when mechanic used special tool to take the insert out.
To summarize...I got the repaired noxem back but the sum of the aditional costs (not counting all the time it took me to sort it out) which reached almost half of the noxem price stayed on my bill; they only transfered some small amount back to my paypal covering postage
The above experience led me to the conclusion that whatever great product without serious local service can be like a visit to casino...you can win but you can loose too; and this is why I look for a definitive nox out solution now.

[Will_460cs]

Originally Posted by jirka330i

Hallo. I have followed your discussion in this thread with high level of interest as I have become myself a victim of noxem marketing in May of this year and "enjoyed" the experience of claiming its failure (still think that it was originally very good product but when costs saving launched and production outsourced somewhere to people republic of xy it became a questionable and tricky piece of s....t). Now, I have back in the car but knowing many construction details, I do not dream about its lifetime and prepare myself for the remap/ nox system delete. As I checked in my country there are already few garages doing nox delete....but only version which allows the engine to run in homogenous mode (which is also not bad because emissions in this mode are apparently low compared to stratified charge....which was designed for fuel economy but its emissions ruin costly and fragile nox system ), but it seems that some of you have enjoyed remap which allows both homogenous and stratified modes. Can you please provide some details on the remap? Thank you

Originally Posted by jirka330i

Hallo. I have followed your discussion in this thread with high level of interest as I have become myself a victim of noxem marketing in May of this year and "enjoyed" the experience of claiming its failure (still think that it was originally very good product but when costs saving launched and production outsourced somewhere to people republic of xy it became a questionable and tricky piece of s....t). Now, I have back in the car but knowing many construction details, I do not dream about its lifetime and prepare myself for the remap/ nox system delete. As I checked in my country there are already few garages doing nox delete....but only version which allows the engine to run in homogenous mode (which is also not bad because emissions in this mode are apparently low compared to stratified charge....which was designed for fuel economy but its emissions ruin costly and fragile nox system ), but it seems that some of you have enjoyed remap which allows both homogenous and stratified modes. Can you please provide some details on the remap? Thank you

Hi

Promap and maptech in the uk have a map for the 325i which gives 330i power essentially. This has the option of nox delete or primary cat delete.

Once the box is a deleted the car should still run in all 3 modes including stratified. Mode selection does not technically require a nox system as nox is for emissions but BMW ties nox to the running of the vehicle.. this info is based on my experience over the last 2 years.

Be aware the msd80/81 is very fickle ECU and stratified mode won't operate until I had done 2 full adaption resets. This might be you problem with noxem as well.

[Will_460cs]

Originally Posted by aaronblack

Cheers for that! Has your mpg improved too? As most with NOxEM claim around 40mpg easy on steady runs?

Just trying to see if the remap makes the car as efficient as NOxEM! Specially as bimmerprof claims that NOxEM improves efficiency up-to 10% over a fully working OEM NOx system!

Originally Posted by jirka330i

Hallo. I have followed your discussion in this thread with high level of interest as I have become myself a victim of noxem marketing in May of this year and "enjoyed" the experience of claiming its failure (still think that it was originally very good product but when costs saving launched and production outsourced somewhere to people republic of xy it became a questionable and tricky piece of s....t). Now, I have back in the car but knowing many construction details, I do not dream about its lifetime and prepare myself for the remap/ nox system delete. As I checked in my country there are already few garages doing nox delete....but only version which allows the engine to run in homogenous mode (which is also not bad because emissions in this mode are apparently low compared to stratified charge....which was designed for fuel economy but its emissions ruin costly and fragile nox system ), but it seems that some of you have enjoyed remap which allows both homogenous and stratified modes. Can you please provide some details on the remap? Thank you

Originally Posted by aaronblack

Cheers for that! Has your mpg improved too? As most with NOxEM claim around 40mpg easy on steady runs?

Just trying to see if the remap makes the car as efficient as NOxEM! Specially as bimmerprof claims that NOxEM improves efficiency up-to 10% over a fully working OEM NOx system!

Economy is identical whatever product/method you use and subjective to; usage and driving style and whether you nox cat delete or not.

Noxem can not improve over factory nox system, the only way to improve over standard is to remove the nox catalyst.

There is allot of good info on the bimmerproffs site - but there are also contradictions and statements around injector use which are taken as facts rather than opinions based on limited testing - which also apply to exactly what I have said to - my opinion based on my results.

Noxem is marketing against other nox deletes and allot of the benefits they quote are relative to other nox delete solutions.

[Will_460cs]

Originally Posted by aaronblack

Cheers for that! Has your mpg improved too? As most with NOxEM claim around 40mpg easy on steady runs?

Just trying to see if the remap makes the car as efficient as NOxEM! Specially as bimmerprof claims that NOxEM improves efficiency up-to 10% over a fully working OEM NOx system!

Originally Posted by jirka330i

Hallo. I have followed your discussion in this thread with high level of interest as I have become myself a victim of noxem marketing in May of this year and "enjoyed" the experience of claiming its failure (still think that it was originally very good product but when costs saving launched and production outsourced somewhere to people republic of xy it became a questionable and tricky piece of s....t). Now, I have back in the car but knowing many construction details, I do not dream about its lifetime and prepare myself for the remap/ nox system delete. As I checked in my country there are already few garages doing nox delete....but only version which allows the engine to run in homogenous mode (which is also not bad because emissions in this mode are apparently low compared to stratified charge....which was designed for fuel economy but its emissions ruin costly and fragile nox system ), but it seems that some of you have enjoyed remap which allows both homogenous and stratified modes. Can you please provide some details on the remap? Thank you

Originally Posted by aaronblack

Cheers for that! Has your mpg improved too? As most with NOxEM claim around 40mpg easy on steady runs?

Just trying to see if the remap makes the car as efficient as NOxEM! Specially as bimmerprof claims that NOxEM improves efficiency up-to 10% over a fully working OEM NOx system!

Where and how are they claiming that?

[jirka330i]

Originally Posted by Will_460cs

Where and how are they claiming that?

bimmeprofs web faq:
"Q8: If I use NOXEM, will I have fuel economy?

A8: Yes, the use of NOXEM will decrease fuel consumption for at least 15 .. 25%, comparing to vehicle, which has problems with NOx catalytic converter and/or NOx sensor, and at least 5 .. 10% comparing to vehicle, which NOx catalytic converter has good performance and there are no technical problems with NOx system components. NOXEM requires regeneration of NOx catalytic converter max rare (each 50 .. 60 seconds) and desulphation – with max low exhaust system temperature. Both conditions guarantee max low fuel consumption and max long work life of exhaust system.

How does NOXEM allow you to save fuel?
NOXEM allows you save extra 5..10% (usually around 10%) of fuel, comparing to OEM NOx sensor. How? NOXEM initializes regeneration of NOx catalytic converter max rare – average after 50 .. 55 seconds. In case of OEM NOx sensor, NOx catalytic converter is regenerated after 10 .. 20 seconds. During regeneration, the engine burns the additional amount of fuel to heat the NOx catalytic converter. The less often the regeneration, the less fuel “waste”. Also desulphation sessions NOXEM initializes max rare – 3 .. 5 times less than OEM NOx sensor. In the process of desulphation also an additional amount of fuel is burned, to keep the temperature of exhaust system high. Moreover, when using NOXEM, you can avoid desulphation sessions at all – it allows you to save both, additional fuel and money.

[aaronblack]

Originally Posted by Will_460cs

Where and how are they claiming that?

So when I read through bimmerprofs website
they claim that by delaying cat regeneration they are able to improve the economy by 10% compared to a fully working nox system.

I'am skeptical myself as of course they will say and do whatever for people to buy their product!

[jirka330i]

Well....both tuners mentioned above were quick to reply on remap pricing but none of them able or willing to answer question whether remap allows all 3 modes of n53. The only way to find that is then the practical experience and observing with INPA which can monitor switching of the modes...anyone did this already?