[wtwo3]

Was invited out to the Porsche driving experience on 9/18 at the autobahn country club in Joliet, IL. Figured I'd give my thoughts - I've had my eye on getting into a 911 at some point (however distant that may be).

I got to drive lead-follow on the track the 718 GTS 4.0, 992.1 Carrera T, Macan GTS, and the Cayenne S. There was also autocross in the Taycan, but I did that last year and it was incredibly boring so we decided to skip it this year.

First up I drove the Macan GTS. I drove the Macan T last year and wasn't impressed by it at all. The GTS is a totally different beast. It felt so good on track - I was super impressed on how it rotated through the corners, for an SUV. The interior was also much improved over the previous one - much better quality materials. If it wasn't so tiny I'd strongly consider a Macan GTS as a family SUV.

Next I drove the Cayenne S. I have to say, the new Cayenne is a major improvement over the previous generation. Much smoother, better quality interior, and it felt a bit faster as well. It's still not really fit for track duty - the weight was just too much for the chassis to handle and I found myself really fighting it in the corners. But the level of refinement and overall comfort/smoothness of it was a pleasant surprise for me.

I then drove the 992.1 Carrera T. I was expecting it to feel a bit slow, but I was pleasantly surprised, it felt "quick enough". The level of grip were very impressive, and it felt incredible on the track. Telepathic steering, great turn-in, and just an overall joy to drive.

Lastly I drove the 718 GTS. Now this was a big surprise. Almost immediately going into the first corner you could really feel the difference moving the engine to the middle of the car as opposed to having it in the rear like in the 911 did for the sharp turn-in and rotation. Dare I say, it actually felt better on the track than the 911 did That being said, I'd still pick the 911 over it. It just has a certain place in my heart that I don't think the 718, no matter how good, would be able to fill.

Last year I walked away from the event thinking the 911 was the only Porsche worth buying and everything else was just a decent car with a Porsche badge slapped on to it. This year, with some of the updated models, I felt like Porsche's entire lineup was compelling.

[tturedraider]

Free or paid? If it was free I’m going to be very upset.

[Humdizzle]

awesome. and both the 911 and 718 specs are great. I think i would pick the cayman over the 992T maybe even the S just for the NA 4.0.

glad to hear the macan is a beast. we are currently shopping for a GTS. How would you compare it to a G80 xdrive in terms of inputs (steering, suspension, brakes, transmission feel) ?

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Free or paid? If it was free I’m going to be very upset.

Free . But invite only

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Free or paid? If it was free I’m going to be very upset.

Free, dealer invites you. I did one last Fall at Summit Point WV. Really fun experience since you get to drive different vehicles. I drove the same cars except we had a Taycan instead of a Cayman.

Which reminds me, I am going to SC to use up my multiple BMW driving vouchers from ordering the M Driver package.

[chassis]

Great review, thanks. Agree with all of it.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

awesome. and both the 911 and 718 specs are great. I think i would pick the cayman over the 992T maybe even the S just for the NA 4.0.

glad to hear the macan is a beast. we are currently shopping for a GTS. How would you compare it to a G80 xdrive in terms of inputs (steering, suspension, brakes, transmission feel) ?

It's hard to compare the Macan to the G80, they're very different. Obviously one's an SUV and one is a sports sedan. The G80 would make light work of the Macan. But if I was to focus on steering, suspension, brakes, transmission....

Porsche in general provides a bit more steering feel. Part of that is just simply down to better EPS tuning, and IMO part of that is also the steering wheel itself. These super thick BMW steering wheels might look nice and feel nice at first, but they rob what little steering feel they would have. So steering feel goes to the Macan... but the g80 is every bit as responsive to steering inputs.

Suspension, again is difficult to compare because it's an SUV vs a sedan. For an SUV the Macan does an incredible job and feels nimble on the track.... but it's no comparison to a sports sedan. The G80 will feel flatter in the corners, turn in will be sharper, and it won't get unsettled from imperfections on track. The Macan will undoubtedly exhibit more body roll, and a busier suspension as it tries to handle its extra weight and ride height. So not really a fair comparison but I'd give it to the G80.

The Macan brakes are really good, surprisingly good. But again the G80 has phenomenal braking as well. I'd give it a tie.

Transmission - now this is an interesting one. I have a 6MT G80 so obviously that isn't comparable... I have tracked an 8AT G80 before, so just going off memory here. The PDK in the Macan IMO is far superior. I kept it in automatic mode on the track, and I was shocked at how well it maintained the correct gear... almost as if it was reading my mind. Braking before a corner, it would downshift to the exact gear I myself would have put it in had I been using the paddles. It was a special experience. The G80 8AT on the other hand I felt like hunted for gears a lot more, and was easy to get caught in the wrong gear coming out of a corner resulting in some pretty catastrophic lag. Obviously some of that can be mitigated by using the paddles, but auto for auto, I felt the PDK was far superior to the ZF 8spd in the G80. Now I haven't tried a G80 with the CS software programming on it - I've heard that solves a lot of the issues with gear hunting and being caught in the wrong gear.

[alex2364]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Free . But invite only

Originally Posted by c1pher

Free, dealer invites you. I did one last Fall at Summit Point WV. Really fun experience since you get to drive different vehicles. I drove the same cars except we had a Taycan instead of a Cayman.

Which reminds me, I am going to SC to use up my multiple BMW driving vouchers from ordering the M Driver package.

How do you get on the invite list? Make nice with your local Porsche sales person?

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by alex2364

How do you get on the invite list? Make nice with your local Porsche sales person?

I get invited to Aston Martin and McLaren stuff and have never bought anything from either one. Just tell them you’re interested give them your info and eventually they start inviting you to stuff. Some good food and drink at these events too usually. I’m going to a McLaren Artura test drive thing tomorrow.

Ferrari does this a lot too but they haven’t invited me to anything yet. Jerks!

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by alex2364

How do you get on the invite list? Make nice with your local Porsche sales person?

Pretty much. Express interest in purchasing one, build a relationship with a dealer. I'm probably not in the market for at least another few years but as long as I show interest I'll probably continue to get invited.

[Alfisti]

I think it's pretty common knowledge the Cayman/boxster is the better driver's car than the 911, it has fundamental advantages of being small/lighter and mid engined.

They suffer from 2 things from perspective, a) only 2 seats and b) none of them have ever looked right, it's like double headed frog, i can't get past it, the 911 is the much more handsome car.

[MoeTE87]

Awesome! I am actually looking at the Macan GTS as my M340i replacement! So it's nice to hear your input on the GTS!

I bet it was a blast to do that! Very jealous!

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I think it's pretty common knowledge the Cayman/boxster is the better driver's car than the 911, it has fundamental advantages of being small/lighter and mid engined.

They suffer from 2 things from perspective, a) only 2 seats and b) none of them have ever looked right, it's like double headed frog, i can't get past it, the 911 is the much more handsome car.

I never thought I'd be in a position to one day afford a Porsche, so I hadn't looked much into them until recently. And while I understand they dynamics of mid-engine vs. rear engine, I didn't expect the sensation would be felt so immediately and obviously, literally on the first corner I took. So it was still a big surprise to me.

I do think another shortcoming is just the availability of grip. The 718 just can't match the levels of grip that the 911 offers. So even though turn-in felt so much sharper and it rotated so much better, I felt it sliding in places where the 911 continued gripping.

[Alfisti]

Where I get a little iffy is if I am doing small/light/nimble/fun/analog i'd have a hard look at an Elise.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Where I get a little iffy is if I am doing small/light/nimble/fun/analog i'd have a hard look at an Elise.

Elise would be great. Don't currently have space for one though... maybe one day.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I think it's pretty common knowledge the Cayman/boxster is the better driver's car than the 911, it has fundamental advantages of being small/lighter and mid engined.

They suffer from 2 things from perspective, a) only 2 seats and b) none of them have ever looked right, it's like double headed frog, i can't get past it, the 911 is the much more handsome car.

I've never felt that way about them. While they are the technically superior car for racing, as an actual enjoyable car tomorrow, they kinda suck. They are too planted, too balanced, and unless you're the sort of person who finds fun in precisely trimming your hedge, you're gonna find it less fun. They just don't really bring the drama that a 911, or really any competition brings.

If you just want to go out to your local hot lap session and turn quick laps over and over again, they're good for that. But if you want to go for a fun ride in a twisty road and push a car and have it push you back, they don't do that.

A 911 is flawed in its layout, and that gives it character and makes it endearing. You learn how to handle it and bond with the car in that way.

Years ago I was dead set on a Cayman S or R when those were the coolest ones. Then in drove a few of them and realized they were a totally overwhelmingly capable car, but an absolute snooze to me. Ended up in my first Corvette, which was a deeply flawed car, and I loved that about it.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I never thought I'd be in a position to one day afford a Porsche, so I hadn't looked much into them until recently. And while I understand they dynamics of mid-engine vs. rear engine, I didn't expect the sensation would be felt so immediately and obviously, literally on the first corner I took. So it was still a big surprise to me.

I do think another shortcoming is just the availability of grip. The 718 just can't match the levels of grip that the 911 offers. So even though turn-in felt so much sharper and it rotated so much better, I felt it sliding in places where the 911 continued gripping.

Beside the layout, the 718 is also a lot smaller and lighter than a 911. All those things together, yeah, I'm not surprised you felt it basically immediately, lol.

[tturedraider]

I drove a Macan S recently because it gets such great reviews. I liked how it handled, but I didn’t like the powertrain and I didn’t care for the V6 motor. I was a little surprised. I loved my 340i powertrain when I got back in my car.

I want to drive a 718 really badly. I only have one car and one parking space, so I couldn’t own one, but I’ve always been a big fan of the Boxter and the Cayman.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Beside the layout, the 718 is also a lot smaller and lighter than a 911. All those things together, yeah, I'm not surprised you felt it basically immediately, lol.

To be fair the difference between the 718 GTS and the 911 T is only about 200 lbs. I think i was more feeling the difference in engine layout than anything to do with size/weight. It was specifically turn-in and rotation into a corner that felt much different.

I haven't driven the 718 on public roads, only on track, so I can't speak for how it feels in real world driving vs a 911. But on track I felt the 718 was a bit more fun and playful.

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by alex2364

How do you get on the invite list? Make nice with your local Porsche sales person?

I’ve maintain my relationship with two main dealerships I have purchased from. I have also been invited to VIR every year but don’t have the time. I’ve also bought nine Porsches (and sold back) from those dealers over the years. Its an affliction.

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Beside the layout, the 718 is also a lot smaller and lighter than a 911. All those things together, yeah, I'm not surprised you felt it basically immediately, lol.

Watch this video. Very informative:

This doesn’t apply to the 982/992 since Porsche has not refreshed the 982 (Cayman) because it is still that good and they have somewhat delayed their EV replacement for it. Mainly applies to the 981, 982 to the 991 series.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

awesome. and both the 911 and 718 specs are great. I think i would pick the cayman over the 992T maybe even the S just for the NA 4.0.

glad to hear the macan is a beast. we are currently shopping for a GTS. How would you compare it to a G80 xdrive in terms of inputs (steering, suspension, brakes, transmission feel) ?

I just got me a 911 (991.1) and our 2023 Macan GTS (sadly) must go. My wife wants to keep her MDX boat and I lost that battle.
It is Chalk outside, black inside, looks new inside and out. Clean Carfax and all maintenance. 18,300 miles on it and 20k service completed.
PM me if interested please