[nick///M3]

Hello to everybody
This is Nick from Greece

Long time member but very few activity.

So i sold my M3 for a 335d last year with the intention to keep it stock and to fulfill my needs at this period of time since i travel a lot by car.

That did not last long as usual and started doing all the basics to it.

After some tuning had been done, i pushed the car to its limits on one of my rides for about 20-25 minutes, and the temp limp mode came on

It was strange for me as i never had any kind of this problem to any of my cars ( not even on the M3 ).

After some research i found that the auto transmission do have a problem with heat after some "pushing"


I contacted CSF UK about this and the response was that they do not have something for the D and if its possible to gather 30 units to order they could make something up. ( they also need some stuff to do it but that is a different story)


My questions to all of you is this :

1) If there is enough interest out there for something like this ?

2) Is there any other solution for a radiator that i do not know about?


Thank you
Nick

[Torqu3]

Never heard of these transmissions having any problems with getting "excessively" hot. That's a new one. And there are tons of people that track their car. I can notice a decrease in shift quality after pushing it hard, but nothing to put it in limp mode. Best of luck!

[335stoner]

why not get an external trans cooler? you could run it inline with the stock trans cooler or bypass the radiator all together

[BB_cuda]

There was the guy that converted his E91 to a track only car and added a manual trans as well as roll cage. I recall him running into hot issues and forget if this was before or after the trans swap.

[nick///M3]

Its not the transmision tha gets hot ( i think...)

Its the engine coolant that gets hot


Cars with this kind of transimision tend to get hotter than manuals. At least thats what i gothered from reading.
And also i found a thread from the n54 section from a guy that saw a big diffence with his auto 335i and a csf radiator and that was the reason for contacting csf.



And yes the guy with the e91 had problems also when he had the auto, but turn the car into a manual one...

[kwaked]

Hi Nick,

If you haven't already i would recommend giving the cooling system a service.
New coolant and thermostat.

I'd also recommend changing out the transmission oil.

Worth checking if all 4 wheels rotate freely as well, my rear wheel bearings were shot at 220k km.
Handbrake adjusted correctly? (i.e. not binding)

If all that is ok then it might be worth returning the car back to it's standard tune, as it could be a bad tune.

I've had my 335d for a couple of years now.
I also live in Athens and have had zero problems overheating, even when towing my caravan.



We've driven from the UK to Greece in summer, up over the Alps, and towed in Greece in August.

Zero overheating problems.

So i think that something somewhere is wrong with your car.
Adding a larger radiator might help for a while, but i think it'd be better to find the cause of the problem first.



Cheers
Mark

[Asonchadwick]

Wow

[Miko226]

That is incredible well done!
What does that trailer weigh?

[kwaked]

MTPLM 1815kg

So it's right at the limit of the cars legal towing limit if fully loaded

1532kg Mass in running order

Car tows a LOT better than i expected.
Really stable, the torque means you barely notice the caravan behind you even going up through the alps.

As i say, we've had no problems with overheating, even towing in 40c+ Greek summers

I was intending on upgrading the radiator, IC and swapping the tranny sump out for a Alpina D3 one, to be honest though it's just not been needed.

With the mileage i do i usually swap the engine oil and filter out every 8 months or so and the tranny oil/sump every 18months

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by kwaked

... even when towing my caravan.

THAT is fantastic. I may have to use your picture as my computer back drop :-)

[nick///M3]

@kwaked

Hey mate

I drive frequently from athens to sofia BG.

Most of the time above the speed limits.
No problem at all.

I use my car for everything else as well.
No problems at all

The tune is from ecotune uk for the time beeing.

When i really push the car hard, then and only then i get the limp mode from heat.

When i say i push the car i mean staying in high rpms for a prologned period of time and using the transmision alot.
With speeds over 120km/h in tight turns and pushing in the straights.
3rd 4th 5th gear.

Since i am going to be visiting the track ( more often from february and on hopefully ) i was thinking that a solutiom might be an upgraded radiator but there is none available.

I will change the thermostat on the car as maintance.

But i do not think thats the problem.

There was a guy from the uk with a e91 that faced the same problem but turned the car to manual.

Also my car has 50k miles, everything is in perfect working condition ( i am @nal about maintance for all my cars and bikes )

And my thought is to buy a radiator from csf for a manual 35i ( need to think how to install it and what fabrications are in need) and put a separate oil cooler for the transmision behind the bumper.

Any ideas more than welcome

Nick

[kwaked]

Don't want to teach a chicken to suck eggs, but my recommendation is to find out exactly what is causing the overheating.

Do you have one of the OBD plugs and software?

I'd want to monitor oil temp, tranny temp, intake temps and coolant temps

It's even worth checking the fans are working well, sounds a little crazy, but upgrading the fans can help even at speed.

Which track are you visiting, Serres or Megera?

If it's Megera i think you're likely to have brakes overheating before the car does

Serres is better, but still on the track the stock brakes won't give you more than a couple of laps before fading

[Miko226]

Originally Posted by kwaked

MTPLM 1815kg

So it's right at the limit of the cars legal towing limit if fully loaded

1532kg Mass in running order

Car tows a LOT better than i expected.
Really stable, the torque means you barely notice the caravan behind you even going up through the alps.

As i say, we've had no problems with overheating, even towing in 40c+ Greek summers

I was intending on upgrading the radiator, IC and swapping the tranny sump out for a Alpina D3 one, to be honest though it's just not been needed.

With the mileage i do i usually swap the engine oil and filter out every 8 months or so and the tranny oil/sump every 18months

[nick///M3]

Originally Posted by kwaked

Don't want to teach a chicken to suck eggs, but my recommendation is to find out exactly what is causing the overheating.

Do you have one of the OBD plugs and software?

I'd want to monitor oil temp, tranny temp, intake temps and coolant temps

It's even worth checking the fans are working well, sounds a little crazy, but upgrading the fans can help even at speed.

Which track are you visiting, Serres or Megera?

If it's Megera i think you're likely to have brakes overheating before the car does

Serres is better, but still on the track the stock brakes won't give you more than a couple of laps before fading

I visited the track and the problem with overheating came up
When i started pushing hard for a good lap time the engine temp light went on.

Checked the data in my shop when i returned to Athens and the water temp went to 125 Celsius !!!!
Trans temp at that time was 100 celcius
Plus my charge pipe ( the one that goes to the throttle ) exploded !!!

As for brakes, PFC pads and fluid, no problems what so ever. From 210-212 kph in the long straight to 100 kph for the first turn no sign of fade

[kwaked]

Originally Posted by nick///M3

I visited the track and the problem with overheating came up
When i started pushing hard for a good lap time the engine temp light went on.

Checked the data in my shop when i returned to Athens and the water temp went to 125 Celsius !!!!
Trans temp at that time was 100 celcius
Plus my charge pipe ( the one that goes to the throttle ) exploded !!!

As for brakes, PFC pads and fluid, no problems what so ever. From 210-212 kph in the long straight to 100 kph for the first turn no sign of fade

Sounds like a nightmare, especially as it's not too warm now

I still think there is a problem somewhere mate
Either with the tune or something in the cooling system.

Stock these cars just don't seem to overheat

Have you checked your fans?
Is your undertray still installed?

[nick///M3]

Originally Posted by kwaked

Sounds like a nightmare, especially as it's not too warm now

I still think there is a problem somewhere mate
Either with the tune or something in the cooling system.

Stock these cars just don't seem to overheat

Have you checked your fans?
Is your undertray still installed?

The tune was re-done and we went towards the rich side

I am going to change the fan, thermostat, pump as first steps.

If the problem remains then i am going to custom solution

CSF radiator from a manual 335i
oil cooler for the engine
oil cooler for the transmission.

Will keep this thread posted

[rbreding]

I'll agree with other posters that something is amiss. During a recent track outing the ambient temp was 87deg F. Track sessions were 15-20 min each running hard with straight away sprints to 150mph. During this entire time I never saw the engine temp go above 215deg F (101C). This data was logged along with many other data points.

Vehicle is JR 2.8 with ATM IC, ATM Intake, XHP trans tune.

[nick///M3]

Originally Posted by rbreding

I'll agree with other posters that something is amiss. During a recent track outing the ambient temp was 87deg F. Track sessions were 15-20 min each running hard with straight away sprints to 150mph. During this entire time I never saw the engine temp go above 215deg F (101C). This data was logged along with many other data points.

Vehicle is JR 2.8 with ATM IC, ATM Intake, XHP trans tune.

Custom tune
Wagner ic
Atm intake
Xhp stage 3 tune

I will start changing things as i said before and we will see

[335stoner]

we all know what is the normal operating temp of the coolant 85°-90°C

what is the normal operating temp of the trans fluid?????

100°C (212°F) is over the thermostat temp and if I am not mistaken most stock trans coolers are cooled by the post thermostat water..

seeing coolant temps in the 101 range under hard driving is more understandable 125c indicates some issue as you already know. With that being said the transmission should follow and be cooler then the coolant.

if the trans is overheating then it will constantly heat the cooled coolant and could be exceeding the radiators cooling capacity.. you need to figure out what is getting hot first before throwing parts..

drive and log your coolant and trans temps under daily driving. your trans should stay under the coolant temp during heat up and driving..

The start to drive the car hard temps should raise. I would think if the trans gets to 100C before the car starts gets overly hot 100C+ I would think the trans is causing the issue..

throw an external trans cooler on the car and see what happens after you log some info

[nick///M3]

Originally Posted by 335stoner

we all know what is the normal operating temp of the coolant 85°-90°C

what is the normal operating temp of the trans fluid?????

100°C (212°F) is over the thermostat temp and if I am not mistaken most stock trans coolers are cooled by the post thermostat water..

seeing coolant temps in the 101 range under hard driving is more understandable 125c indicates some issue as you already know. With that being said the transmission should follow and be cooler then the coolant.

if the trans is overheating then it will constantly heat the cooled coolant and could be exceeding the radiators cooling capacity.. you need to figure out what is getting hot first before throwing parts..

drive and log your coolant and trans temps under daily driving. your trans should stay under the coolant temp during heat up and driving..

The start to drive the car hard temps should raise. I would think if the trans gets to 100C before the car starts gets overly hot 100C+ I would think the trans is causing the issue..

throw an external trans cooler on the car and see what happens after you log some info

For the most part of my driving the trans and engine temps goes together ( already did logs after the first incident )

90-89
91-90
88-86

When the engine temp went up from the ecu log we saw that they had 25 degrees celcius difference.
125 engine
100 trans

[kwaked]

Originally Posted by nick///M3

The tune was re-done and we went towards the rich side

I am going to change the fan, thermostat, pump as first steps.

If the problem remains then i am going to custom solution

CSF radiator from a manual 335i
oil cooler for the engine
oil cooler for the transmission.

Will keep this thread posted

Had problems with my MX5 overheating at Kartodromo and Megera, just not enough speed to cool the engine.

Ended up with my radiator popping.

Ordered a OEM type thinking it would get me to work for a couple of months till i upgraded it.
In the end i never upgraded, the old one must have been gunked up, even though i flushed and back flushed it.

Another common overheating problem with MX5's is owners removing the undertray.

People tend to think of car cooling in terms of air flow, in reality it's air pressure that cools our radiators.

The air at speed will cause a high pressure in front of the radiator, his together with low pressure behind the radiator is what cools it.

Likewise the fans rarely pull enough air to cool, physically it's by creating a low air pressure behind the radiator that lets them cool while we're driving at speed.

Things like, removing the undertray prevent the car from having a low pressure area behind the rad

[nick///M3]

Originally Posted by kwaked

Had problems with my MX5 overheating at Kartodromo and Megera, just not enough speed to cool the engine.

Ended up with my radiator popping.

Ordered a OEM type thinking it would get me to work for a couple of months till i upgraded it.
In the end i never upgraded, the old one must have been gunked up, even though i flushed and back flushed it.

Another common overheating problem with MX5's is owners removing the undertray.

People tend to think of car cooling in terms of air flow, in reality it's air pressure that cools our radiators.

The air at speed will cause a high pressure in front of the radiator, his together with low pressure behind the radiator is what cools it.

Likewise the fans rarely pull enough air to cool, physically it's by creating a low air pressure behind the radiator that lets them cool while we're driving at speed.

Things like, removing the undertray prevent the car from having a low pressure area behind the rad

the undertray is in its place.

The problem is that all diagnostics performed in the car do not show a problem anywhere.