[EdmJunky]

I'm sure this topic has already been beat to hell and back but here goes. I've got an 09 328 that is nothing more than my daily commuter. I will be installing Bilstein B6's in the next few weeks and am contemplating doing the following upgrades as well:
-M3 control arms front and rear
-ECS trailing arms
-M3 sway bars front and rear
-Rear subframe bushings

I'm just starting to wonder if all these upgrades would even be worth it for a car that won't see any track days or anything of that nature, other than some occasional spirited driving. My absolute goal is ride comfort and handling for street use. Thoughts, comments, suggestions all welcome.

[Run Silent]

I mean, in my opinion - the stock suspension on the E9X series is pretty good for a daily driver. It has a sporty nature to it, but is still reasonably comfortable for day to day operations. If you want it to lean a bit more sporty, then replacing stock components with the OEM BMW sport components would give you that, whilst still retaining some of the original comfort as well.

I personally would just replace worn out components with either OEM or OEM like aftermarket components if just using as a daily.

[zstreet86]

For a daily commuter, I would only replace the shocks if they are worn out. The other stuff, especially the rear bar and bushings can get expensive quick to upgrade.

[EdmJunky]

Originally Posted by usshelena725

I mean, in my opinion - the stock suspension on the E9X series is pretty good for a daily driver. It has a sporty nature to it, but is still reasonably comfortable for day to day operations. If you want it to lean a bit more sporty, then replacing stock components with the OEM BMW sport components would give you that, whilst still retaining some of the original comfort as well.

I personally would just replace worn out components with either OEM or OEM like aftermarket components if just using as a daily.

By installing the parts I mentioned, would that reduce ride comfort?

Originally Posted by zstreet86

For a daily commuter, I would only replace the shocks if they are worn out. The other stuff, especially the rear bar and bushings can get expensive quick to upgrade.

You do have a point there in terms of cost. I mean I could probably skip the sway bars and (maybe) the subframe bushings. But I feel like the control arms would still be a good addition. Currently the car drives and handles like total crap thanks to the worn suspension. I'd like to do everything I need to do and replace everything I need to replace in order to not need to mess with the suspension again for a long time and have the car drive and handle like a dream. If that means the car needs to sit in the garage a bit longer while I source all the parts then so be it. The benefits the upgrades will provide are more important to me than cost. I'll also be doing the labor myself so I won't be paying any labor costs.

Ultimately I just want to make sure I'm not wasting money on upgrades that will have no benefit to me, or that will reduce ride comfort, and that I won't need to do anything with the suspension again for a long while. If there is anything else I should be looking at replacing while I'm down there please let me know.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by EdmJunky

By installing the parts I mentioned, would that reduce ride comfort?



You do have a point there in terms of cost. I mean I could probably skip the sway bars and (maybe) the subframe bushings. But I feel like the control arms would still be a good addition. Currently the car drives and handles like total crap thanks to the worn suspension. I'd like to do everything I need to do and replace everything I need to replace in order to not need to mess with the suspension again for a long time and have the car drive and handle like a dream. If that means the car needs to sit in the garage a bit longer while I source all the parts then so be it. The benefits the upgrades will provide are more important to me than cost.

Ultimately I just want to make sure the upgrades I'm considering aren't a waste of money for no benefit, or that they won't reduce ride comfort. If there is anything else I should be looking at replacing while I have the suspension torn apart please let me know.

Not sure I understand the point of the M3 control arms on a car that isn't being driven at 9/10ths on a track or HPDE event, stock control arms would be fine I imagine under normal stress.

Thicker sway bars create less variance of shock and spring absorbency from corner to corner. The benefit of this is flatter corning under heavy load with a contradiction to ride handling. Layman's terms; better handling but rougher ride, especially when going over a bump or parking lot entrance at an angle.

Suspension bushings being replaced will give a noticeable 'tighter' feel to the suspension if the old ones are worn out. Going to a stiffer busing or a poly bushing will give you a better feel of the suspension but give a large increase in NVH, which isn't usually acceptable in a daily driver.

Really - simply replacing the springs and shocks will probably give you 90% of the suspension feeling when new for a minimal cost. Replacing the bushings with stock bushings will help too, but it is pretty labor intensive.

[EdmJunky]

Originally Posted by usshelena725

Not sure I understand the point of the M3 control arms on a car that isn't being driven at 9/10ths on a track or HPDE event, stock control arms would be fine I imagine under normal stress.

Thicker sway bars create less variance of shock and spring absorbency from corner to corner. The benefit of this is flatter corning under heavy load with a contradiction to ride handling. Layman's terms; better handling but rougher ride, especially when going over a bump or parking lot entrance at an angle.

Suspension bushings being replaced will give a noticeable 'tighter' feel to the suspension if the old ones are worn out. Going to a stiffer busing or a poly bushing will give you a better feel of the suspension but give a large increase in NVH, which isn't usually acceptable in a daily driver.

Really - simply replacing the springs and shocks will probably give you 90% of the suspension feeling when new for a minimal cost. Replacing the bushings with stock bushings will help too, but it is pretty labor intensive.

Ok I see. So from what I'm gathering I would be able to get my desired result by simply replacing the shocks/springs and maybe any bushings that are worn.

I was under the impression I needed to replace the control arms all together as there were a few bushings that could not be replaced, is this accurate?

Thanks for all the help!

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by EdmJunky

Ok I see. So from what I'm gathering I would be able to get my desired result by simply replacing the shocks/springs and maybe any bushings that are worn.

I was under the impression I needed to replace the control arms all together as there were a few bushings that could not be replaced, is this accurate?

Thanks for all the help!

I believe you would obtain the benefits you are looking for by simply replacing the shocks/springs.

I am unsure of your question regarding the arms/bushings. On some cars, the bushings can be replaced, but it is a serious damn job requiring some pretty serious tools.

[EdmJunky]

Originally Posted by usshelena725

I believe you would obtain the benefits you are looking for by simply replacing the shocks/springs.

I am unsure of your question regarding the arms/bushings. On some cars, the bushings can be replaced, but it is a serious damn job requiring some pretty serious tools.

Alright well I thank you very much for the information. I will most likely end up just doing the shocks and springs. I'll have to inspect my control arm bushings because I remember thinking "boy these are in pretty bad shape" last time I was under the car. If they need replacement then I'll do that too. Not worried about the labor or tools as I'm no stranger to labor intensive repairs and I have or can get the tools I need.

[Rob09msport]

Bushings on this car do not add nvh by going stiffer and I would highly recommend going poly or solid as their is no tradeoff also dont trail trailing arms and only do front m3 arms if you want more camber and dont want do plates. Best bet is good shocks stock springs and upgraded bushings and mounts for a comfortable ride with improved handling and no additional nvh

[EdmJunky]

Originally Posted by Rob09msport

Bushings on this car do not add nvh by going stiffer and I would highly recommend going poly or solid as their is no tradeoff also dont trail trailing arms and only do front m3 arms if you want more camber and dont want do plates. Best bet is good shocks stock springs and upgraded bushings and mounts for a comfortable ride with improved handling and no additional nvh

Regarding your suggestion to only do the front m3 arms for more camber without doing plates. I'm not sure what you mean by that, please explain.

Thanks!

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by EdmJunky

Regarding your suggestion to only do the front m3 arms for more camber without doing plates. I'm not sure what you mean by that, please explain.

Thanks!

If you are wanting to drop the cat substantially and get that awful hella flush look you can use those arms to get more camber.

I disagree about the NVH on poly bushings. I think they are quite a bit harsher and you feel a lot more vibration. But YMMV.

[Volasko]

Going the M3 control arm route will for sure add more NVH. Asside from the extra camber they give you (why you get more grip) the M3 bushings is a solid bushing for improved steering response vs. the fluid filled on in the stock control arm. I'd swap once the stock ones fail the cost of the M3 arms are negligible vs. the stock sports arms.

If you're still rolling on RFT swapping those out for non RFT will make a huge difference with regards to NVH

Just mix and match parts to get the most bang-for-the-buck OP.

How many miles currently on the car? Are any of the parts in your current list already visibly worn out or the cause of current issues?

Depending on that, we can recommend the best course of action.

[Rob09msport]

Because m3 arms add approx .7 degrees of camber and will add to road feel. I am very sensitive to nvh and I would not consider it that, on smooth roads their is no difference but you can feel the road through the steering wheel a little more but no difference from passenger or back seat at all, it just makes the steering more direct.

[6ixSpd]

There is zero discernible change in NVH from doing the M3 front arms. Zero. I just swapped the OEM ones out for the M3 TRW set two months ago and I own an E92 M3 as well. Both my cars have no difference in NVH from the front axle, not now nor in the past.

[iturbo_bmw]

change your shocks and get the m3 control arms. thats all you need to do, it will drive better and sportier and provide the biggest change, rest of that is unnecessary for your commuter car. IMO

Originally Posted by iturbo_bmw

change your shocks and get the m3 control arms. thats all you need to do, it will drive better and sportier and provide the biggest change, rest of that is unnecessary for your commuter car. IMO

Biggest bang for the buck for sure.

[EdmJunky]

So I keep getting people on both sides of the spectrum in terms of nvh with the m3 arms. I'm just going to take my chances and do what most have suggested to just do the shocks/springs and probably the m3 arms too. Everything else I'll leave alone or replace if worn, I'm pretty sure I will have to do some bushings but haven't been under the car again yet so I can't confirm.

The car has 160k miles on it and from what I can tell the suspension hasn't been touched. Tomorrow I will inspect and start a list of what exactly is visibly worn.

[mweisdorfer]

Originally Posted by EdmJunky

I'm sure this topic has already been beat to hell and back but here goes. I've got an 09 328 that is nothing more than my daily commuter. I will be installing Bilstein B6's in the next few weeks and am contemplating doing the following upgrades as well:
-M3 control arms front and rear
-ECS trailing arms
-M3 sway bars front and rear
-Rear subframe bushings

I'm just starting to wonder if all these upgrades would even be worth it for a car that won't see any track days or anything of that nature, other than some occasional spirited driving. My absolute goal is ride comfort and handling for street use. Thoughts, comments, suggestions all welcome.

On a 328, I'd do

B4 sport front & rear

Front -

M3 control arms in the front, new tie rods, new sway bar links, new rubber gaskets for the sway bar

New bump stops

Rear -
New bump stops
Replace all the bushings in the subframe
Replace all the control arms & or bushings in the control arms
Replace sway bar links & sway bar bushings
Replace the Differential bushings

You can buy kits on-line at FCP Euro & get a lifetime warranty

Go to bmwfans and start making a list of all the part numbers.

If your goal is comfort, b4 is where it's at. B6 will be too harsh. You'll get performance from the fact that the bushings have been refreshed & M3 front control arms.

[Spitfire007]

I've had B6s on the following.

E38
2002 Tii
and now the E90.

It's too harsh for low speed. Highway or high speed and smooth roads, they are amazing.
But around town, they are not valved for smoothness and will be too jarring.

I've had them on the E90 for 4 years now.
Wife HATES the ride. Too stiff.
Haven't changed because of cost, time, baby, family obligations, and because the B6s are REALLY TOUGH, and I was daily driving in Brooklyn and NYC.
When I have more time and the rest of the suspension needs more attention, I'll be going to OEM sport shocks or B4 sports.

Car rides on stock sport suspension with 17s, non RFT...and it's too harsh and fatiguing in town.
Highway is where B6 shines. period. Trust me!

[EdmJunky]

Ok so I took another look over the weekend. The front upper control arm bushings are done on both sides so those will need replacing, the rest of the bushings looked fine so I may or may not be servicing those.

Now these last two posts have sent me down another path of uncertainty though. I was dead set on the B6's until reading mweisdorfer's and Spitfire007's posts. The B6's were my choice because I read from other posts that they were similar ride comfort as the B4's but without the body roll. Now I'm unsure and having a hard time choosing between the b4's, b6's, and now the Koni FSD's as I read these are best for ride comfort although durability is shotty (but they do have lifetime warranty if I understood correctly).

I may also be adding Eibach Pro Springs for stance, not sure if this will change the shock/strut combo I should go with. Again, my main focus is ride comfort for daily driving in town and on highways.

[mweisdorfer]

Originally Posted by EdmJunky

Ok so I took another look over the weekend. The front upper control arm bushings are done on both sides so those will need replacing, the rest of the bushings looked fine so I may or may not be servicing those.

Now these last two posts have sent me down another path of uncertainty though. I was dead set on the B6's until reading mweisdorfer's and Spitfire007's posts. The B6's were my choice because I read from other posts that they were similar ride comfort as the B4's but without the body roll. Now I'm unsure and having a hard time choosing between the b4's, b6's, and now the Koni FSD's as I read these are best for ride comfort although durability is shotty (but they do have lifetime warranty if I understood correctly).

I may also be adding Eibach Pro Springs for stance, not sure if this will change the shock/strut combo I should go with. Again, my main focus is ride comfort for daily driving in town and on highways.

If you add Eibach pro springs in order to lower the car, the ride will get harsher. Plus you'll have to invest into new adjustable sway bar links.

Koni FSD might be a good choice for a 328. I could see that. I think you can get Eibach lowering springs with Koni FSD's, but again I wouldn't do that if your goal is comfort.

I'd still get those or Bilstein B4 sports.

Just make sure you update all the surround parts:
Bump stops, strut bearings etc. For about $1000.00, you could have the B4's, surrounding hardware, M3 control arms & new tie rods.

It doesn't sound like you want to tackle the rear subframe. I don't blame you it's really another "separate" project. I think doing the front control arms is too, for what it's worth.

Bilstein B4's are about 10% stiffer than stock. The sport version of that will be more than 10%.

As far as durability, Bilstein is probably the better choice, & and if you get them with a lifetime warranty from FCP Euro it's a moot point anyway. You'll probably get 75,000 miles or so on a set of Bilstein's. If you drive on smooth roads, maybe 100,000 miles.