[M3 Eater]

I realize that with meth injection, I control the intake temps for the most part.

Are there benefits to having a Stett CAI if I already have meth and a DCI?

My instinct tells me that I will only make the turbos work harder (like Terry always says) with longer tubing. During the times when I am not spraying, the cooler denser air will benefit Im sure. I really like how the Stett CAI looks under the hood so its a little bit about the display but I dont want to make my car slower by adding a good solid mod. Everyone has seen Former's write ups on the Stett CAI so I know its a solid mod but it wasn't reviewed with meth in the equation. I am wondering if it would be a wash if I chose to use the ram set up (the shorter pipe only and some scoops).

I know I should save my $ and get a FMIC instead... I know,I know, but I am stealing this CAI.

[Sniz]

yes you will have a benefit, meth will only cool down so much.

if you start with already cooler and denser air your already ahead of the game.

DCI are not ideal, they are just cheaper.

[BrianMN]

Originally Posted by M3 Eater

I realize that with meth injection, I control the intake temps for the most part.

Are there benefits to having a Stett CAI if I already have meth and a DCI?

My instinct tells me that I will only make the turbos work harder (like Terry always says) with longer tubing. During the times when I am not spraying, the cooler denser air will benefit Im sure. I really like how the Stett CAI looks under the hood so its a little bit about the display but I dont want to make my car slower by adding a good solid mod. Everyone has seen Former's write ups on the Stett CAI so I know its a solid mod but it wasn't reviewed with meth in the equation. I am wondering if it would be a wash if I chose to use the ram set up (the shorter pipe only and some scoops).

I know I should save my $ and get a FMIC instead... I know,I know, but I am stealing this CAI.

Terry says the longer tubing makes the turbos work harder? Hmmm. FBIS and I have both confirmed it does NOT make the turbos work harder.

The CAI will benefit you even with meth. And I would say an intercooler is actually necessity at this point, not an option.

[M3 Eater]

Originally Posted by BrianMN

Terry says the longer tubing makes the turbos work harder? Hmmm. FBIS and I have both confirmed it does NOT make the turbos work harder.

The CAI will benefit you even with meth. And I would say an intercooler is actually necessity at this point, not an option.

Understood..... I am thinking I can get by till spring with stocker fmic. I see lots of people saying now that with a tune the first mod should be fmic.... back in the day it was dci or dps or meth... more and more are saying now.... fmic even before a tune.

[BrianMN]

Originally Posted by M3 Eater

Understood..... I am thinking I can get by till spring with stocker fmic. I see lots of people saying now that with a tune the first mod should be fmic.... back in the day it was dci or dps or meth... more and more are saying now.... fmic even before a tune.

Although the power of those mods are nice, to me one of the biggest benefit of the DPs and FMIC is lower wastegate duty-- simply put, they make the job much easier on your turbos. So if you own the car, you are significantly helping the turbos and engine to be happier and last longer.

[M3 Eater]

Damn..looks like I have to pass on the Sett pipe. I really want it bad... and there is one for sale in the wanted section..... pick it up quick b/c it won't be there long!

[BrianMN]

Originally Posted by M3 Eater

Damn..looks like I have to pass on the Sett pipe. I really want it bad... and there is one for sale in the wanted section..... pick it up quick b/c it won't be there long!

Hahah just go for it! Translate the price of it into how many hours you'd have to work for it. Say if you make $30/hour, you can have a $300 intake for one day of work!!! haha

I went from DCI to Stett CAI a couple weeks ago, and it's really nice seeing the IAT's super low...especially in this sub-freezing weather!

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by Sniz

yes you will have a benefit, meth will only cool down so much.

if you start with already cooler and denser air your already ahead of the game.

DCI are not ideal, they are just cheaper.

I agree from an academic standpoint when related to initial IAT, but from a practical standpoint, the difference is minimal.

The calculations suggest, as well as some tests, that post IC, non-meth, temps may differ by about 10 degrees. Add in meth and that difference will dwindle to essentially nothing.

Also, with a longer intake, the wall contact is increased which is detrimental to total airflow losses which will lead to increased initial heat. But again, is minimal and probably not measureable here.

[M3 Eater]

save the $ for the FMIC that is a necessity..

[Iwantm3]

CAI won't make your turbos work harder ?

[BrianMN]

Originally Posted by Iwantm3

CAI won't make your turbos work harder ?

NO!

[Iwantm3]

Where did you get this info ?

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by scalbert

I agree from an academic standpoint when related to initial IAT, but from a practical standpoint, the difference is minimal.

The calculations suggest, as well as some tests, that post IC, non-meth, temps may differ by about 10 degrees. Add in meth and that difference will dwindle to essentially nothing.

Also, with a longer intake, the wall contact is increased which is detrimental to total airflow losses which will lead to increased initial heat. But again, is minimal and probably not measureable here.

Theory has been proven wrong though scalbert. The WGDC differences are negligable to nothing. Lowering the IAT 10 degrees assuming all else equal should give about 3% high density air. That still gives more oxygen to the engine. I really think we should look at it like weight savings. More is always better. It is not the individual item that is important, but the ultimate results.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

Theory has been proven wrong though scalbert. The WGDC differences are negligable to nothing. Lowering the IAT 10 degrees assuming all else equal should give about 3% high density air. That still gives more oxygen to the engine. I really think we should look at it like weight savings. More is always better. It is not the individual item that is important, but the ultimate results.

The question posed was answered using supplied data. A 10 dergree temperature difference from IC alone would equate to maybe a few degrees difference when methanol/water is injected. Is there any dispute in this?

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by scalbert

The question posed was answered using supplied data. A 10 dergree temperature difference from IC alone would equate to maybe a few degrees difference when methanol/water is injected. Is there any dispute in this?

It is an interesting question. If the entire fluid did vaporize, then the difference would be 10F whether you are using water/methanol or not. The latent heat of vaporization is still a finite quantity.

[M3 Eater]

dci and stock fmic definately leaves the air hot enough to boil meth for atomization.

We know that upgraded fmic and meth make a great match so it would be easy to conclude that cooler air in mean more air to charge even though the meth won't boil as completely. I think at that stage that meth is going to have more of an octane increasing effect than it does cooling but how good/safe is it to let our motor ingest liquid droplets of meth mix? Either way the air is going to enter the combustion chamber at ambient.

Perhaps having the air nice and cold, using a cai with negligable waste gate duty increase, and a upgraded fmic would allow one to attain the same cooling benefits and octane benefits with less meth.... say a # 5 nozzle now with timing over 10 degrees instead of the the # 10 nozzle im using which has me at 14 degrees at the top end.

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by M3 Eater

dci and stock fmic definately leaves the air hot enough to boil meth for atomization.

We know that upgraded fmic and meth make a great match so it would be easy to conclude that cooler air in mean more air to charge even though the meth won't boil as completely. I think at that stage that meth is going to have more of an octane increasing effect than it does cooling but how good/safe is it to let our motor ingest liquid droplets of meth mix? Either way the air is going to enter the combustion chamber at ambient.

Perhaps having the air nice and cold, using a cai with negligable waste gate duty increase, and a upgraded fmic would allow one to attain the same cooling benefits and octane benefits with less meth.... say a # 5 nozzle now with timing over 10 degrees instead of the the # 10 nozzle im using which has me at 14 degrees at the top end.

Methanol doesn't boil at ambient. I am not sure where that is coming from? The methanol is vaporizing like water if you spray a mist into the air.

[M3 Eater]

sorry, vaporize... I was under the impression that the warmer the air... the more completely it would vaporize any liquid present. So the warmer the air, the more water it would willing hold... but colder air is denser, so does cold air hold more water that is being introduced in a mist form? I don't know I am asking......not telling....

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by M3 Eater

sorry, vaporize... I was under the impression that the warmer the air... the more completely it would vaporize any liquid present. So the warmer the air, the more water it would willing hold... but colder air is denser, so does cold air hold more water that is being introduced in a mist form? I don't know I am asking......not telling....

No worries my friend. Let's cover one at a time. If we use the ideal gas law and make a few assumptions, then the colder the air the more dense it will be. Increasing the density will increase the number of oxygen molecules going to your engine. More oxygen = more power.

Methanol evaporates extemely easy and I don't think a 10F difference will affect its ability to evaporate. If you run a water/meth mix, remember any fluid that makes it to the combustion chamber will instaneously evaporate under the high combustion temperatures. The evaporation there still cools the entire combustion process which is one of the main goals here. IAT is not the end all be all. Cooling in the combustion chamber is also terribly important.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

It is an interesting question. If the entire fluid did vaporize, then the difference would be 10F whether you are using water/methanol or not. The latent heat of vaporization is still a finite quantity.

It will remove X percent of the energy and not Y value. As such, the delta would be reduced further. If need be, I can do the calculations.

[topspin]

Originally Posted by scalbert

The question posed was answered using supplied data. A 10 dergree temperature difference from IC alone would equate to maybe a few degrees difference when methanol/water is injected. Is there any dispute in this?

+1

I don't think this can be disputed.

There is a specific amount of heat that must be applied to vaporize a substance. Greater air temperature post FMIC means more heat is available to vaporize your methanol / water mixture hence more methanol / water can / will be vaporized. The more grams that get vaporized the greater the temperature drop will be.

So if the only difference between two cars is that car number 1 has post FMIC temps of 120 and car number 2 is 80 I would always expect that this difference of 40 degrees would shrink substantially with meth injection applied to both cars although you may be required to spray slightly more meth with car number 1 to achieve this.

I don't see any way for car 1 to have a lower temperature than car 2 once methanol is introduced but the difference should always be less than it was without meth.

This is theoretical but I imagine that data would indeed confirm this.

[M3 Eater]

do i spend my money on a top notch fmic and use the dci or spread it over a CAI and a mediocre fmic.

Either way I have to get out of the Stock FMIC.

I was considering keeping DCI and getting a FMIC (spending like 5-600$) (ets)

or


keeping the stocker for a while and going CAI (spending like $200 on a used stett)

or

getting a good deal on a used CAI and finding a cheap fmic to get out of the stocker. ( $200 on used stett, and $400 on God speed fmic) ( yeah i know that god speed is cheap shit but its gotta be better than stock)