[D_o_S]

Hiya,

happy new year! Reaching out for some help to all you dating experts

I have been spending considerable time with a girl and I think we can say we both enjoy each other's presence. I certainly enjoy hers, from her wittiness and intellect to her looks... We are not intimate, so as below, all judgements of appearance are with clothes on.

I have been subjected to some congruence tests in the past, some I believe I handled well (with the types of "Uh-huh" responses and keeping my cool), but on New Year, I was faced with a test (? or so I believe) which got me thinking (I am an overthinker...)

Based on the fact that my responses seemed to be ignored and her opinions were repeatedly stated (while I stood behind mine) makes it seem like some sort of escalated congruence test...

Our phone conversation started something like this (m = me, h = her):
M: Hey, so how was your first day of new year? Any changes???
H: Naaah, it's all the same... I looked everywhere, and everything seems to be the same (joking voice) How about you?
M: Oh, dramatic changes! (sarcasm) So I got up early, just kidding... I got up as normal, did some exercise...
H: Hmmm, I'd like to ask you, you've been exercising a lot in the past year, but I don't see any changes. Do you see any changes? Like are you going to need to buy a bigger shirt? (Serious voice)
M: Well, actually, I haven't exercised in the past 4 months...
H: Yeah, but... [[[ my above comment was dismissed, as if it didn't matter... no interest as to why I haven't exercised (due to work), etc.]]] You know, I don't know how you exercise, but I mean, I can't see any changes on you. Can you see any changes?
M: Yeah, my shirt is tighter... around my belly [jokingly, but it's also true... she is convinced I have to GAIN mass, not be lean... whereas due to the fact that I have been sedentary, I would prefer to loose some weight, and then regain]... No, but really, I can feel more fitted in my arms, shoulders and torso
H: Yeah, but I can't see it. I mean, girls would digg you/digg men with broad shoulders. So have you gone up a shirt size? If you're still wearing the same shirt size, you're not growing...
M: No, shirt size is still the same...
H: Yeah, so you must not be exercising for growth (she knows I much prefer function/endurance rather than outright hypertrophy)... I mean, I'm sorry I'm so strict on you, but it's like if I told you "I'm exercising every day" and you saw nothing...
M: Yeah, well when I started out, I was lifting 60 kg, now I am lifting 100...
H: Yeah, I still can't see it. But anyway, if you want to have the body of a jogi, so be it...
M: Nah, I don't want to be a jogi... or Arnold Schwarzenneger, for that matter. I would much rather be like Bruce Lee...
H: That's a strange choice, I mean why would you choose world champion Arnold?
M: Cause I only go for the best...
H: Yeah... well... train however you want...
M: Yep, so after strength training, I got on the bike...
H: You see, you keep running to that bike!!! Cause you're good at it! Trying to find the easy way out (strict voice)
M: Actually, I ride my bike because I enjoy it.
H: Yeah, well it's not going to give you a hot body. I mean, a road cyclist body, what woman would lust after that...
M: Yeah, well give me a month to get into my exercise routine, and then I'll show you... And what about you, how was your day?
H: Yeah, I had a lazy day... Maybe you'd like to come over for tea tomorrow?
M: Sure, let me know... hey, and thank you for your honesty about the exercise thing!

Then some small talk and "over and out".

So, well, uh... what should I think of this? I see two levels:
- partnership/relationship level
- flirting level

On the level of a partnership, what I find bothersome:
- It is not a conversation, I do not get to present my view... i.e. she repeats "But I cannot see any change", "You're still wearing the same shirt size".
- On the level of a partnership, I do NOT want anyone to feel belittled, ridiculed, ashamed... So I find it difficult to navigate outside of the situation where she says "Can you see any change?" (I state "Yep, my shirt feels more fitted), and she just repeats "I cannot see any change." - I do not want to "shoot back" at her with a comment like "Well, I've been getting compliments" or whatever, because that makes her feel like the fact that she cannot see it is WRONG... I would rather say: Hey, look here... (Like if she says "my phone has no reception"... I'm not going to say "well mine does", but rather "let me take a look")
--- but, on the level of a partnership, her whole assessment of exercise effectiveness is just plain wrong, in my eyes. I mean, should I be going to the gym only to be measured by shirt size??? What about 1 rep maximum, number of repetitions, etc. I hinted at this, and it was ignored. In hindsight, I would have expanded this argument much more, but "in the heat of battle", I was so mesmerized by the fact that "she cannot SEE it"
- There is very little support of ME in this whole argument, and it would have been so easy to provide... I mean...: some concern over why I haven't been exercising (I know you've had a lot of work, but hey, it's new year, lets make the change!), some support regarding the fact that I am lifting heavier (Hey, good work! Keep that up and I'm sure I'll see the changes), the fact that I WANT to exercise and cycle (Wait, so you did your workout and then got on the bike? Good job!). Nada. Zero. Cycling sucks because you don't get a hot body. Weightlifting you're clearly doing wrong, because I cannot SEE it.

KEY QUESTION HERE: Do I go back and tell her: Look, I'm really glad we had that conversation about my training last time. It was open and honest and I thank you for that. However, it didn't feel very supportive to me. Maybe, next time you could... XYZ... and I believe that would leave me with a more energized mood to do better. I try to do the same for you and we can help each other reach our goals.

Do I open this, or not? If I do, to me, it seems like a responsible thing to do. On the other hand, it may seem like I was too touched by what was said. But, if I keep ignoring this... well, I don't want to be in a relationship with "ignorance" as one of its values.

On the level of flirting.. well... anything I ought to have done better? I mean, I don't want to be mean.... but the fact that she just kept repeating "I cannot see it" was provocative and could be misused in so many ways ("Well, others gave me compliments", "Maybe you ought to look a little better", "I'm not doing this for the looks"), same thing with "If you're not wearing a bigger shirt, then it's not working", yada yada yada...

Thoughts, tips, tricks?

Thank you!

[upstatedoc]

O M G

[Murf993]

Originally Posted by upstatedoc

O M G

What did I just read?

[Alfisti]

God damn.

[3.0L]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

Hiya,

[Much snipped to avoid long suffering...]

Thoughts, tips, tricks?

Thank you!

Yes. Try pre-marital counseling.

[BMWCCA1]

Is this really what you have to put up with these days?

I'm glad my marriage has lasted over 40-years, so far. And I don't remember going through anything like this 50-years ago when we first met!

I'd say "dump her" but then I've never met either of you.

[rebekahb]

I couldn't even read the whole thing but what I did read was you haven't even had sex and barely in a relationship. In such a short amount of time she feels the need to demean you. This will only get worse 10 fold. If you don't run you're crazy.

[Alfisti]

Don't you just swipe right or left or whatever nowadays? I thought all this BS was a thing of the past?

[D_o_S]

Well, it's not the first time I have heard "run away"... but out of the women I've dated, this one is definitely most reliable and responsible, and somehow "sees the world in a similar way" (ofc not in the above example)

Other congruence tests - like "You're short" - can be handled quite easily... Like: "Yeah, well the view from down here is just fabulous", or "Yeah, you know, tall guys, always hitting their heads on things... some say it's an unfair advantage".

But with "something that's not going well", or doesn't appear to be - be it exercise, work, or life... I can't think of a way of reframing it, if you're headed that way. I.e. if you're short, that's the way you are, and you might as well accept it...

If you're not fit - you can either accept it, try to deny it (I'm fitter than I look), or try to do something about it. If you're trying to do something about it, I believe you deserve support, not a shit test. Correct??

I.e. in my case I'm slim, but... I'm not ripped. I want to be ripped. She says "Ha ha, but it will take you ages to get ripped"... Um? What's the response without explaining yourself?

I mean, I could answer like: Sure, but I'll enjoy every moment of the journey?

That's for the shit test. But it still doesn't solve the "You shouldn't cycle cause it doesn't make you look hot", which doesn't seem like a shit test, but rather like shit behavior.

Am I understanding this?

[rebekahb]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

Well, it's not the first time I have heard "run away"... but out of the women I've dated, this one is definitely most reliable and responsible, and somehow "sees the world in a similar way" (ofc not in the above example)

Honestly, it doesn't matter what we say. If this isn't the first time you've heard it then maybe you need to re-examine why you are seeking another opinion.

Most reliable and responsible but yet puts you down and doesn't build you up. Why would you settle? I would rather be single and enjoying my life then have someone who I barely know speak to me like that.

[stein_325i]

Can't say without knowing you or the other person, but s*** like that would annoy me. She may be reliable, but she clearly only hears what she wants to hear and is okay with putting you down easily. Perhaps have a discussion with her as to how comments like that make you feel. Not really sure what else to say.

[mrjimyjohn]

You seem like a nice guy. This is a bad match. If anything she’s testing will you let her walk over you and you answered yes and thank you

[D_o_S]

Originally Posted by rebekahb

Honestly, it doesn't matter what we say. If this isn't the first time you've heard it then maybe you need to re-examine why you are seeking another opinion.

Most reliable and responsible but yet puts you down and doesn't build you up. Why would you settle? I would rather be single and enjoying my life then have someone who I barely know speak to me like that.

Ugh... it's not like she doesn't make my life nice. If I look back, I have had maybe 3 scenarios like this in the past 3 or 4 months... I used to have the "rather be single than with someone not worth it" attitude, and she has passed through my filters. I felt worse with other women so to speak... and, I don't want to fix her, but just show her another way... what she decides to do is her decision. But, I don't want to give up on her without giving her a chance to improve...

So far, I haven't talked to her about the lack of support I feel... but then, I am a scientist by education, and I am very open minded about things. I am not quick to judge or respond. So I'm thinking maybe I should tell her that I believe it would be for the better for all of us if we appreciated each other as we are...

As in, I WON'T go into:
- judging physical performance by shirt size is a bad way to go about it
- sports is not done for how you look at the end of the day (i.e. only do those sports that make you look like a bodybuilder)
- some sports being better and others worse

I will just tell her, as I said above: Look, I'm really glad we had that conversation about my training last time. It was open and honest and I thank you for that. However, it didn't feel very supportive to me. I have found in life that things and people go better if they are provided support and shown a way, rather than being discouraged. For example, I have demonstrated that I want to be in shape, and I would appreciate it if you could support me in reaching my goals. Rather than dismissing the fact that I am lifting heavier weights, I would feel supported if you said "Way to go, keep up the good work". I believe that would leave me with a more energized mood to do better. I try to do the same for you and we can help each other reach our goals.


Sounds ok, or does it sound needy, or? I have tried the "I'm leaving and not telling you why" approach historically, and question weather it was the right thing to do. I gave those people no chance to improve themself (which few may have done... but those few would have perhaps been worthwhile)

[SickGTR]

You haven't banged her yet and she is talking shit on you!? F her a few times then move on. 😉🤣.

[Murf993]

So a few red flags for me so far. You haven't had sex yet, how long have you been dating? I'm going to assume not long because that's what you've said and the no sex thing. If your best description of her is that she's reliable and responsible I'd say you're looking for the wrong person. Sure, we all want those traits but if you asked me to describe my wife to you (or any of my other ex-wives) I wouldn't be listing those as their best features. Of course they had that but how about you just want to be with them, you can't stand to be apart from them, you have mutual interests and mutual respect. I could be way wrong but I don't think you're with the right person from what you've said above.

[D_o_S]

This, I think, explains the situation at hand well:

https://dadstartingover.com/dear-dso...oxic-behavior/

As mentioned by your responses above, and as my quick google search of "congruence tests" has shown... these shit tests are "tests", they are not continued behavior.

However, she has demonstrated continued bad behavior, for example with her clearly hating me cycling... and even if I did win the Tour de France, I would still not be sexy enough to the average Joe hitting the gym 3 times a week.

Oh well, time to talk to her...

Any more input welcome!

[DETRoadster]

M: I think I'm going to mix up my workout routine and start running.
H: There you go again trying to get lean.
M: Nope, just running THE FUCK away from you!

Just out of curiosity, how old are you two?

[RickFLM4]

.

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

... but out of the women I've dated, this one is definitely most reliable and responsible, and somehow "sees the world in a similar way" (ofc not in the above example)

Might I suggest a nice dog? A mut from the SPCA or a Golden Retriever who will be devoted to you and never criticize you no matter what you do or how fit you are!

[upstatedoc]

Originally Posted by SickGTR

You haven't banged her yet and she is talking shit on you!? F her a few times then move on. 😉🤣.

I would like to "appreciate" this post but some may find it insensitive.

[BRAKE!]

Cut out the noise and listen to your gut. Clearly it's trying to signal alarm bells as you know this IS NOT right (would you have spoken to her that way?)

Quit trying to justify this in your head with all these excuses. The bottom line is, she's insecure - wants a certain guy to an idealistic view of what she wants next to her (once again, because she's insecure). And you holding on to this for dear life makes you sound insecure too. Half of this world is women, odds are in your favor you can find another one you like.


Another simple way to look at this, don't look at the nuances of each response, count up how many ppl are telling you NO vs YES.

[3.0L]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

Hiya,

happy new year! Reaching out for some help to all you dating experts

[snippage occurred again]

Thoughts, tips, tricks?

Thank you!

Here's another tip: My wife and I dated for 5 years before we got married. Five years. Add that to our 53rd anniversary next month and that comes out at 58 years.