[KC87ZB]

I did the fluid/filter change on my X3 at 90,000 miles in my garage. Requires jack stands and a method of measuring fluid temp (OBD-2 blue-tooth device with BimmerLink). It certainly wasn't "easy" but very possible to do oneself.

Drive wheels do not need to be moving when you are doing final hot top-up.

So the real answer was that you didn't want to do it in your driveway and that's fine but there are many that do.

[curtdragon]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Automatic transmission fluid service is not a service one can do on his driveway. The procedure for the Hellcat was complicated requiring having the transmission temperature within a certain range and it staying there. Car had to be lifted so with the engine running the transmission could be put in gear and the drive wheels could turn to ensure a proper refill of the transmission. Word was this would run $1000... (The 5-speed manual fluid service on my Boxster required 0.3 hour labor and 2 liters of fluid. Least expensive service for the car. My Turbo's 6-speed manual fluid service cost more but not much more.)

I suspect BMW automatics are if not as complicated to service as the Hellcat transmission still more complicated than a simple drain and refill of fluid. Oh and with a filter change.

As for the MINI...

My current JCW is my *3rd* MINI. I bought a 2023 S last Dec. to drive until I could order and receive delivery of a JCW with a 6-speed but I found one on a lot — out in Loveland, CO — and bought it trading in my S.

The S like the 2018 JCW I owned first and now this 2023 JCW give every indication of being good reliable cars. I know the early MINIs have a rep for poor reliability but the newer ones circa I think 2016 or when the BMW engine appeared are much better in the reliability department. The car comes with a 4 year 50K mile warranty. Granted this only covers the car well, the 1st 4 years and 50K miles. My days of putting 50K miles on a car in 4 years (or less) are over with. But if this MINI proves to be unreliable I can get rid of it and get [...]

You said it right there. Just bring it for service. You're really complaining about a service that you probably will need to get done once every 100k miles. It's a proven transmission the ZF8 is in so many cars albeit different variations.

Originally Posted by TR23-87

I did the fluid/filter change on my X3 at 90,000 miles in my garage. Requires jack stands and a method of measuring fluid temp (OBD-2 blue-tooth device with BimmerLink). It certainly wasn't "easy" but very possible to do oneself.

Drive wheels do not need to be moving when you are doing final hot top-up.

So the real answer was that you didn't want to do it in your driveway and that's fine but there are many that do.

And exactly this. Same procedure for my DSG Audi. I bought a $100 OBD dongle to tell me the temp of the transmission fluid. But otherwise it's as simple as most manual or other automatic transmission fills. A lot require it to be level and to fill until it runs out. Only difference is this needs to be at a certain temp and then fill is complete.
And I'm just assuming you aren't doing the work yourself based on your wording.


All I'm saying with all that is if you want a manual get one. If you want an auto get it. This is not a new drive train the transmission has been in BMWs lineup for some time. And in the M since 2020.
If you're afraid of reliability because it says there's no maintenance interval on something then bring it in for service.

If you're afraid of the price then bring it to a German shop. It's going to be out of warranty by then anyway.

[DSTR]

Originally Posted by curtdragon

You said it right there. Just bring it for service. You're really complaining about a service that you probably will need to get done once every 100k miles. It's a proven transmission the ZF8 is in so many cars albeit different variations.

And exactly this. Same procedure for my DSG Audi. I bought a $100 OBD dongle to tell me the temp of the transmission fluid. But otherwise it's as simple as most manual or other automatic transmission fills. A lot require it to be level and to fill until it runs out. Only difference is this needs to be at a certain temp and then fill is complete.
And I'm just assuming you aren't doing the work yourself based on your wording.


All I'm saying with all that is if you want a manual get one. If you want an auto get it. This is not a new drive train the transmission has been in BMWs lineup for some time. And in the M since 2020.
If you're afraid of reliability because it says there's no maintenance interval on something then bring it in for service.

If you're afraid of the price then bring it to a German shop. It's going to be out of warranty by then anyway.

The ZF8 has documented service intervals. Those specifications are from ZF themselves. My BMW dealer knows this and will perform that service. The fluid from ZF is expensive, for a fluid.

This is from another source. ZF has a registration process for service data now. This is accurate but an example, not one directly related to the ZF8 in the new M2. Lifetime fill is not true.

https://blog.fcpeuro.com/zf-8-speed-...cs-maintenance

[KC87ZB]

Btw, there is no lifetime fill for any automotive fluid/lubricant. If lifetime is anything over 5 years and 60k miles.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by curtdragon

You said it right there. Just bring it for service. You're really complaining about a service that you probably will need to get done once every 100k miles. It's a proven transmission the ZF8 is in so many cars albeit different variations.

And exactly this. Same procedure for my DSG Audi. I bought a $100 OBD dongle to tell me the temp of the transmission fluid. But otherwise it's as simple as most manual or other automatic transmission fills. A lot require it to be level and to fill until it runs out. Only difference is this needs to be at a certain temp and then fill is complete.
And I'm just assuming you aren't doing the work yourself based on your wording.


All I'm saying with all that is if you want a manual get one. If you want an auto get it. This is not a new drive train the transmission has been in BMWs lineup for some time. And in the M since 2020.
If you're afraid of reliability because it says there's no maintenance interval on something then bring it in for service.

If you're afraid of the price then bring it to a German shop. It's going to be out of warranty by then anyway.

My preference is to get the automatic fluid service done *before* warranty expires not after.

I haven't pushed having my 230i in for this but when I brought the subject up the attitude wasn't encouraging.

If my attempt to get a M2 with a 6-speed falls through then I'll just keep the 230i or seek a M240i but of course in either case at some point brign the car in for an early transmission fluid service.

At 71 I have no interest in working on my cars. While I did most of the services of my vehicles even rebuilt the engines of two vehicles I owned I haven't had any desire to work my cars for about 10 years. Helped in part because of no place to work on my cars.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by TR23-87

Btw, there is no lifetime fill for any automotive fluid/lubricant. If lifetime is anything over 5 years and 60k miles.

In reality I understand that. But too many automakers claim otherwise and do not even schedule an automatic transmission fluid service.

If I end up keeping the 230i I'll get more serious about having the transmission fluid service done. And see how that goes.

[Kroghj1]

Got my allocation yesterday and went back and forth for the last 2 weeks on this…

Consider myself a die hard manual fan but I actually went for the 8 speed auto on this one.

1 - I was worried I’d be disappointed with the squishy soft bmw clutch. Test drove a manual 3 series years ago and didn’t love the feel.. and without a chance to drive the m2 before buying, I didnt want to risk the M product also feeling “squishy”. Last 2 manuals in our house were caymans and that’s what a clutch should feel like

2 - 80% likely to do track days a few times a year with my father in law. I consider myself a decent manual driver but I know that downshifting in the braking zone would be a little bit too much of a distraction to actually approach the limit.

Im feeling enthusiast guilt for the decision, hence the post - but I think I made the right call for my specific use case on this specific car. Shame me … 1 2 3 go!

[Mike_H_]

FC Euro video showing the transmission fluid change procedure from start to finish. With a QuickJack, seems like it'd be a breeze.

Manufacturers know the transmission should last through the warranty period, so they say it's a "lifetime fill."

They know that not every technician will perform the procedure correctly and don't want to have to pay a $20k warranty claim because of that.

After the warranty, it's on the owner.

I may have attained a strong financial position in the decades since college, but one thing that hasn't changed is that I don't trust rando strangers with critical fluid changes that I can do.

My wife had to have a 370Z with the 7A, which is sold with the claim that it's a sealed unit with a lifetime fill.

Even when new, there was a lot of heat in the footwell, but the Nissan dealer did nothing, because it's a sealed unit.

At 51,000 miles, the 7A went out and the parts catalog only listed a single part, the entire unit.

The transmission was replaced under warranty and the heat buildup issue went away with the defective transmission.

How much would it have cost? If I remember correctly, the part was $7,900 and with labor I was told it would have been a $12k job.

[JustinHEMI]

Originally Posted by Kroghj1

Got my allocation yesterday and went back and forth for the last 2 weeks on this…

Consider myself a die hard manual fan but I actually went for the 8 speed auto on this one.

1 - I was worried I’d be disappointed with the squishy soft bmw clutch. Test drove a manual 3 series years ago and didn’t love the feel.. and without a chance to drive the m2 before buying, I didnt want to risk the M product also feeling “squishy”. Last 2 manuals in our house were caymans and that’s what a clutch should feel like

2 - 80% likely to do track days a few times a year with my father in law. I consider myself a decent manual driver but I know that downshifting in the braking zone would be a little bit too much of a distraction to actually approach the limit.

Im feeling enthusiast guilt for the decision, hence the post - but I think I made the right call for my specific use case on this specific car. Shame me … 1 2 3 go!

You're a grown adult spending your own money. No reason to shame.

Enjoy your car! I'm glad we still have a choice!

[KC87ZB]

I had a Alfa Giulia with the mid torque 8 speed ZF, which is much more aggressive than the one in my X3. My son has the much quicker shifting ZF in his baby m 435.

I have been and continue to be impressed with ZF quality and shifting for an auto. The M will be set up even better than those above.

I truly do not think the ZF is a step down of any kind, truly a matter of personal preference that is influenced by vehicle purpose. It is a great transmission and arguably a better performance choice for the M2.

Enjoy what you buy, it is yours after all.

Main thing is that if you plan to keep any vehicle past 7 years or 70000 miles you need to truly understand lifetime from BMW perspective versus proper maintenance from the equipment suppliers perspective, such as ZF.

[JA-06]

Originally Posted by TR23-87

I had a Alfa Giulia with the mid torque 8 speed ZF, which is much more aggressive than the one in my X3. My son has the much quicker shifting ZF in his baby m 435.

I have been and continue to be impressed with ZF quality and shifting for an auto. The M will be set up even better than those above.

I truly do not think the ZF is a step down of any kind, truly a matter of personal preference that is influenced by vehicle purpose. It is a great transmission and arguably a better performance choice for the M2.

Enjoy what you buy, it is yours after all.

Main thing is that if you plan to keep any vehicle past 7 years or 70000 miles you need to truly understand lifetime from BMW perspective versus proper maintenance from the equipment suppliers perspective, such as ZF.

Totally agree. While I understand that a lot of people bought the G87 because of the manual. Going for the ZF is a really solid alternative. It might not be as fun but it is the best combo for a DD imo

[zero21]

Just FYI for everyone on considering the manual, or information about it and it's gearing. Courtesy of the TREMEC app.

[awg87]

8AT. It will be the sister to my FL5

Both in blue of course

[MichaelB1969]

Originally Posted by deladude

I am probably going to take the six speed no matter what, but would taking the manual actually limit modding potential?

I would imagine so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_S6-53_transmission

Designed to handle up to 443 lb-ft of torque.

I am no expert, but I assume BMW might apply a buffer to the max torque handled to ensure longevity. An ~8% buffer brings that figure very close to the 406 lb-ft of the base M3 for example.

Obviously, the G8X comp, CS and CSL models all have 479 lb-ft of torque, which is beyond what the manual transmission is rated to handle.

It is also noteworthy that while the M2 is down slightly on power to the G8X base, the torque figures are identical.

That all said, I have a manual G80 on the way! Will gladly sacrifice a bit of power for the added engagement and fun of the manual. But I don't plan on modding it as I think it's plenty of power for the street in stock form.

[ourlee]

Automatic for me.

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by MichaelB1969

I would imagine so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_S6-53_transmission

Designed to handle up to 443 lb-ft of torque.

I am no expert, but I assume BMW might apply a buffer to the max torque handled to ensure longevity. An ~8% buffer brings that figure very close to the 406 lb-ft of the base M3 for example.

Obviously, the G8X comp, CS and CSL models all have 479 lb-ft of torque, which is beyond what the manual transmission is rated to handle.

It is also noteworthy that while the M2 is down slightly on power to the G8X base, the torque figures are identical.

That all said, I have a manual G80 on the way! Will gladly sacrifice a bit of power for the added engagement and fun of the manual. But I don't plan on modding it as I think it's plenty of power for the street in stock form.

you're correct the manual cannot handle as much power as the zf8.

but you can still mod it. you will need a specific tune that limits your torque though. lots of guys do this on the GTR forums to save their stock tranny's as the dct box is limited to around 600 ft/lbs before it starts to fail. guys will have 700-800whp and torque limited to 550... until they can afford an upgraded trans

[mitchels]

Originally Posted by awg20

8AT. It will be the sister to my FL5

Both in blue of course

Automatic too but white FK8!

[JCZ5]

I am surprised how unremarkable the manual equipped M2s received with reviewers. For reviewers who have driven both, they always mention the AT completely transforming the car. I guess that is the age we're in. Sure, we get manuals, but the engine is optimized for ATs.

Also, every reviewer every year have said BMW's manual transmission as "rubbery", in a negative way. I wonder why BMW have never improved on it. They clearly saw how good the Supra manuals were from Toyota

[zero21]

Originally Posted by JCZ5

I am surprised how unremarkable the manual equipped M2s received with reviewers. For reviewers who have driven both, they always mention the AT completely transforming the car. I guess that is the age we're in. Sure, we get manuals, but the engine is optimized for ATs.

Also, every reviewer every year have said BMW's manual transmission as "rubbery", in a negative way. I wonder why BMW have never improved on it. They clearly saw how good the Supra manuals were from Toyota

MotoMan had a take specifically about the deliberate, long, involving throws. Only one review thought the manual was a turd and we all know who they are.

[JCZ5]

Originally Posted by zero21

MotoMan had a take specifically about the deliberate, long, involving throws. Only one review thought the manual was a turd and we all know who they are.

Ya lol. But also Charlie from DailyMotor / TheTopher. He drove the manual and then lighted up when he drove the AT

https://youtu.be/0R2UET8t0NI

[zero21]

Originally Posted by JCZ5

Ya lol. But also Charlie from DailyMotor / TheTopher. He drove the manual and then lighted up when he drove the AT

https://youtu.be/0R2UET8t0NI

Yeah he had a killer take: the engine is too refined and the car too stable and he wasn't tired enough on public freaking roads...while the traction control settings were on. Then he goes on to say the engine is detuned so you know the other cars are more powerful...despite being just as fast.

Obviously there are people who don't like things that are too good. Let them go get worse things. Better for me.

[JCZ5]

Eh just have to wait a few months and get more people to drive it. Including prospective buyers. I for one I’m looking forward to a test drive. As someone who previously owned the F87 M2C, I get the appeal. But I do agree that BMW could put in more effort to make the shifter feel “better”.