[T_U_D]

Article: https://www.bmwblog.com/2023/03/20/new-bmw-m2-stiffer/

[zero21]

I recognize that picture!

[BimmerFix]

Finally something interesting to read

[JustinHEMI]

I wonder how stiff it is compared to the E86 Z4 M coupe.

[Xspeedracer]

So it sounds to me like they could have seam welded the body vs spot welding it and that would have made it stiffer as well without the extra bracing adding bolt in bracing like a convertible uses is just that added weight

[T_U_D]

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

I wonder how stiff it is compared to the E86 Z4 M coupe.

Remember when BMW provided data in regards to torsional rigidity? It now appears that they are ho-hum regarding it.

[Albator_IIII]

Originally Posted by T_U_D

Remember BMW used to provide data in regards to torsional rigidity.

Pepperidge farm remembers

[Bumpinjeep]

Was this translated from another language or something? It seems like there's like 4 vague points and it just repeats itself. The car will be stiff? How stiff? Stiff. It wont have any chassis slop, so the suspension will work so it doesn't have chassis slop.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

Was this translated from another language or something? It seems like there's like 4 vague points and it just repeats itself. The car will be stiff? How stiff? Stiff. It wont have any chassis slop, so the suspension will work so it doesn't have chassis slop.

I've never heard an auto manufacturer say they couldn't quantify how an aspect of a new performance car is improved over the previous model. During the development process they use the previous model as their baseline to build off of and improve on. They said you can't compare it to the old model in this video interview which is total BS. I hate it when people don't have an answer to a question and then just give some lame excuse instead of being honest and saying they'll need to get back to them on this. These are also the same metrics marketing uses to tout how much better a new model is over the previous one. Someone at BMW will know.

[T_U_D]

Originally Posted by Tag

I've never heard an auto manufacturer say they couldn't quantify how an aspect of a new performance car is improved over the previous model. During the development process they use the previous model as their baseline to build off of and improve on. They said you can't compare it to the old model in this video interview which is total BS. I hate it when people don't have an answer to a question and then just give some lame excuse instead of being honest and saying they'll need to get back to them on this. These are also the same metrics marketing uses to tout how much better a new model is over the previous one. Someone at BMW will know.

Example of F87 data that was readily available. https://www.bimmerfile.com/2016/02/2...ng-the-bmw-m2/

It is absurd that similar information is currently unavailable for the G87. Uncertain as to why so much is being left in the dark?

[zero21]

Originally Posted by T_U_D

Example of F87 data that was readily available. https://www.bimmerfile.com/2016/02/2...ng-the-bmw-m2/

It is absurd that similar information is currently unavailable for the G87. Uncertain as to why so much is being left in the dark?

My guess is they don't want to devalue their own brand and previous cars. Many people still think the prior M2 is greatest BMW ever made. If they go and improve literally everything then it clearly isn't...right? IDK I'm just taking a stab in the dark.

Honestly - to be able to rattle off statistics on a car and then claim you can't quantify torsional rigidity numbers is stupid...

[Tag]

Originally Posted by zero21

My guess is they don't want to devalue their own brand and previous cars. Many people still think the prior M2 is greatest BMW ever made. If they go and improve literally everything then it clearly isn't...right? IDK I'm just taking a stab in the dark.

Honestly - to be able to rattle off statistics on a car and then claim you can't quantify torsional rigidity numbers is stupid...

They don't care about the F87 anymore, that car is out of production. BMW is just like any company; their prime directive is to make $$$. Furthermore, if you don't want to devalue your brand, maybe stop making ugly cars.

[T_U_D]

Originally Posted by zero21

My guess is they don't want to devalue their own brand and previous cars. Many people still think the prior M2 is greatest BMW ever made. If they go and improve literally everything then it clearly isn't...right? IDK I'm just taking a stab in the dark.

Honestly - to be able to rattle off statistics on a car and then claim you can't quantify torsional rigidity numbers is stupid...

HA! They generally do not do that. If they have some beneficial data worth bragging about then they will do it while throwing the previous generation under the bus. They are not at all concerned about past sales. It is all about how much they can move of the current model.

[zero21]

Originally Posted by T_U_D

HA! They generally do not do that. If they have some beneficial data worth bragging about then they will do it while throwing the previous generation under the bus. They are not at all concerned about past sales. It is all about how much they can move of the current model.

So the new chassis is less stiff? Or they're just bucking the trend of playing up the new models numbers?

[T_U_D]

Originally Posted by zero21

So the new chassis is less stiff? Or they're just bucking the trend of playing up the new models numbers?

That is highly doubtful. It is probably not significant enough to toot their horn about it. Just a guess.

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by Tag

Furthermore, if you don't want to devalue your brand, maybe stop making ugly cars.

Dead

[BRAKE!]

Can’t stop but wonder… well if you made the car lighter to begin with, you wouldn’t have to put in as much structural reinforcement to make the chassis stiffer (thereby making the car even heavier)

Not saying weight is everything, and if the G87 is like the G82, then it will still handle very well, but it seems like they created a problem by making the car heavy and their solution was to make it even heavier with reinforcements vs making the car lighter to avoid all this

[T_U_D]

Originally Posted by BRAKE!

Can’t stop but wonder… well if you made the car lighter to begin with, you wouldn’t have to put in as much structural reinforcement to make the chassis stiffer (thereby making the car even heavier)

Not saying weight is everything, and if the G87 is like the G82, then it will still handle very well, but it seems like they created a problem by making the car heavy and their solution was to make it even heavier with reinforcements vs making the car lighter to avoid all this

Unfortunately, throwing more power into it is vastly less expensive than various weight reduction methods. BMW has admitted such.

[aerobod]

Here are a couple of reference points from a torsional rigidity perspective:
The G42 m240i xDrive CLAR platform is quoted as 12% stiffer than the F22: https://www.autozine.org/Archive/BMW/new/2er_G42.html

The G20 CLAR platform is estimated at 36,625 Nm/degree and G30 at 37,750 Nm/degree here (based on other supporting info in the thread): https://g30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...21&postcount=2

The Z4M Coupe was 32,000 Nm/degree, considered one of the stiffest cars available at the time.

I would think the G87 is likely in the 35,000 to 40,000 Nm/degree range.

The stiffest road legal cars are probably Bugattis with 50,000 to 60,000 Nm/degree quoted for various models.

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by BRAKE!

Can’t stop but wonder… well if you made the car lighter to begin with, you wouldn’t have to put in as much structural reinforcement to make the chassis stiffer (thereby making the car even heavier)

Not saying weight is everything, and if the G87 is like the G82, then it will still handle very well, but it seems like they created a problem by making the car heavy and their solution was to make it even heavier with reinforcements vs making the car lighter to avoid all this

BMW is not the only manufacturer making heavy cars. Here are some examples (yes, the RS3 is lighter but its also a tad smaller and less power):

RS3 is 3,649
RS5 is 3,990
C63 is 4,600
C63 AMG is 3,902

[ronin13013]

Take out the back seats carbon hood carbon trunk.

Originally Posted by M_Power Rob

BMW is not the only manufacturer making heavy cars. Here are some examples (yes, the RS3 is lighter but its also a tad smaller and less power):

RS3 is 3,649
RS5 is 3,990
C63 is 4,600
C63 AMG is 3,902

[T_U_D]

Originally Posted by ronin13013

Take out the back seats carbon hood carbon trunk.

It will still be significantly heavier than any two door vehicle produced by a certain German manufacturer located in Zuffenhausen.

Realistically, for the amount of money that a G87 CS or CSL will cost and only have the ZF 8 Speed auto, I much rather give that kind of coin to the aforementioned manufacture.