[Politicalicon]

Honestly, if you think this car is heavy and numb, you should jump into my F90 M5 competition. OMG Does it accelerate like a bat out of h*ll, however you don't feel it doing so. Launch control, see the tach, ohhh that's 120, feels like you're doing 50.

Steering is completely numb and the comp is just stiff to give the illusion of performance.


That's the main reason I ordered the M2, the z06 is not fun to put miles on (just because I know it's the end of the front engine corvette) and besides the M5 all of my cars are Manual transmission.

I bought a 2023 wrx for fun, and that car is slow and disconnected, trust me. The throttle pedal feels like it's a controller from a video game console from the early 2000's where wireless controllers had a delay.

I test drove the M2 before ordering it (A friend of mine) and I have to tell you, the light clutch and squishy box makes it an actual joy to drive. It just feels a little silly. I can't believe how different it feels from the transmission on my F82 M4 Comp.

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is every car is tailored for different people. I personally thing that getting an Automatic transmission removed a bunch of that "connected feel" that you're lacking. Even if the MT is slower, it always listens to you. Yes, the AT will shift really quickly, but it never finds the gear you actually want to be in without using the "manual mode". So.. why deal with it?

Question for those here that drive a manual:

Do you even feel like you're driving a manual on your commutes? Sometimes I'm 1/2 way through my commute before I even remember I'm driving a MT car. Seriously, I make a little hiccup and go.. ohhhhhh.... The closest I can compare this to is getting into an AT car and putting it into drive. I don't think any of you even realize yourselves doing it. It's automatic (pun intended), and the MT is the same way for those of us that have been driving MT our whole lives.

Honestly? If the M5 came in an MT, I think it would have been more fun to drive (Although it would need wider gears as with that motor you'd redline in a split second)

[wj100]

OP here again. Lots of interesting comments. To those of you who think I don't have any room to complain because I ordered an AT w/ a sunroof, I get it. I really do. I have an old manual Miata that I take out on the weekends to get my fill of manual driving and it doesn't have a sunroof. :-)

My point, for those evaluating whether or not a G87 may be right for them is as follows:

All of my previous cars leading up to the G87 were automatics (E90 M3, W204 C63, F82 M4, Giulia QV, and A90 Supra), so it's as apple to apples as a comparison can be. All of them besides the Supra were M/AMG/QV level performance cars. And, to me (again, I know this is only one guy's opinion), the G87 is the least engaging/connected of the 6 cars I previously owned. I'm not saying I hate it...I'm not saying it's not extremely capable...I'm not saying it's not a great value compared to what else is available in this price range...it's just the way I feel and I thought it could be helpful feedback for others.

[robopp]

Thinking a sunroof matters on a 3800lb car…..🤦‍♂️

[xtougher]

Originally Posted by ScottyRyan2019

No need to hate on the guy. It's his opinion which can differ from someone else's. Personally, I love the car, but with that said I've never found a car that I couldn't find a gripe with if I looked hard enough.

I lean towards this. OP is comparing between their own experiences.

I love the car as well (as much as you can after about a week and a half) and am still learning basic additional functions my previous cars did not have, along with it still being in break-in period.

I'm sure I will come up with things I don't like as much at some point as well...

[izzyM2]

Time to trade and be happy!

[Sebis]

Originally Posted by robopp

Thinking a sunroof matters on a 3800lb car…..🤦‍♂️

A saving of 50 lbs. with CF roof may not be much but considering the location, it does lower the center of gravity a bit.

Bonus points for getting more head room front and rear and making it a bit more special.

From resale standpoint, the lack of CF roof will make quite a difference few years down the road.

[abrandonment]

Originally Posted by iifymbro

paying BMW $2,600 to delete your sunroof is a interesting choice for sure

I was so stoked to be able to option an open roof.

[MASHCT]

Originally Posted by Sebis

A saving of 50 lbs. with CF roof may not be much but considering the location, it does lower the center of gravity a bit.

Bonus points for getting more head room front and rear and making it a bit more special.

From resale standpoint, the lack of CF roof will make quite a difference few years down the road.

50 lbs? I thought it was closer to 13 lbs (unless you were just tossing out a number.) Just watched the BMWblog video where 2 M guys from BMW said it saves 6kg.

[Sebis]

Originally Posted by MASHCT

50 lbs? I thought it was closer to 13 lbs (unless you were just tossing out a number.) Just watched the BMWblog video where 2 M guys from BMW said it saves 6kg.

6 kg with steel roof, 23 kg with CF roof. I am not making this up, it was posted multiple times on this forum.

[MASHCT]

Originally Posted by Sebis

6 kg with steel roof, 23 kg with CF roof. I am not making this up, it was posted multiple times on this forum.

Not sure what you mean 6 kg with steel roof & 23 kg with CF roof? The guys in the video said opting the CF roof saves 6kg vs stock. Is it when opting the sunroof & switching to CF you save 23kg?

I know the post you're talking about, but that is just speculation from a poster, not BMW specs. But even BMW's FAQs aren't clear if they mean steel roof with sunroof or just a steel roof.

Hoss's post assumes the roof is CF - it's not. It's CF reinforced plastic. And then you have the epoxy coat, too. I think his quoted weight is just bare CF per sqft.

From BMW FAQ:

Article
Viewed by 971 visitors971

What is the weight advantage of the roof made of carbon-fibre-reinforced plastic (CFRP) on the BMW M2 (2023)?

The roof of the BMW M2 (2023) made of carbon-fibre-reinforced plastic (CFRP) is approx. 6 kg (approx. 13 lb) lighter than a comparable steel roof.

[Ravenseal]

Originally Posted by MASHCT

50 lbs? I thought it was closer to 13 lbs (unless you were just tossing out a number.) Just watched the BMWblog video where 2 M guys from BMW said it saves 6kg.

The carbon roof saves 50lbs over the sunroof, which is the only other option in the US. Other markets have the option for a steel roof, which is closer to 15lbs in savings. Manual gearbox also saves another 30-40lbs in weight. Throw on some lighter wheels, swap out the midpipe, etc, etc., and a manual G87 can be 100-150 lbs lighter than a stock automatic with the sunroof. It's been conversed on this forum extensively, and JackiePhD Racing on youtube has done a ton of weight cutting on his car as proof.

[Habber]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

The carbon roof saves 50lbs over the sunroof, which is the only other option in the US. Other markets have the option for a steel roof, which is closer to 15lbs in savings. Manual gearbox also saves another 30-40lbs in weight. Throw on some lighter wheels, swap out the midpipe, etc, etc., and a manual G87 can be 100-150 lbs lighter than a stock automatic with the sunroof. It's been conversed on this forum extensively, and JackiePhD Racing on youtube has done a ton of weight cutting on his car as proof.

And then all that work goes down the tubes with the weekly land sea air McDonalds meal…

[robopp]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

The carbon roof saves 50lbs over the sunroof, which is the only other option in the US. Other markets have the option for a steel roof, which is closer to 15lbs in savings. Manual gearbox also saves another 30-40lbs in weight. Throw on some lighter wheels, swap out the midpipe, etc, etc., and a manual G87 can be 100-150 lbs lighter than a stock automatic with the sunroof. It's been conversed on this forum extensively, and JackiePhD Racing on youtube has done a ton of weight cutting on his car as proof.

Wow, I didn’t realize that! Usually a sunroof costs money vs a steel or whatever material roof and carbon is an extra cost. Not optioning a non-sunroof, non-cf roof is proof BMW didn’t give a shit about weight savings on the M2, which is really a shame.

I don’t want a sunroof. Sure, $2600 and it goes away.

[Ravenseal]

Originally Posted by robopp

Wow, I didn’t realize that! Usually a sunroof costs money vs a steel or whatever material roof and carbon is an extra cost. Not optioning a non-sunroof, non-cf roof is proof BMW didn’t give a shit about weight savings on the M2, which is really a shame.

I don’t want a sunroof. Sure, $2600 and it goes away.

They had to undercut the M3/M4 by $15,000 somehow. Most people in America like sunroofs, so I guess it makes sense from a market and production perspective. I had one on my M240i and every once in a while I instinctively go for the button that isn't there to open it. I did make the $2,600 (+$300 for the mandatory PPF) compromise on my M2 because of the weight, but I do think it looks better aesthetically. There's is room to save weight on this car though, if you care enough.

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by MASHCT

Not sure what you mean 6 kg with steel roof & 23 kg with CF roof? The guys in the video said opting the CF roof saves 6kg vs stock. Is it when opting the sunroof & switching to CF you save 23kg?

I know the post you're talking about, but that is just speculation from a poster, not BMW specs. But even BMW's FAQs aren't clear if they mean steel roof with sunroof or just a steel roof.

Hoss's post assumes the roof is CF - it's not. It's CF reinforced plastic. And then you have the epoxy coat, too. I think his quoted weight is just bare CF per sqft.

From BMW FAQ:

Article
Viewed by 971 visitors971

What is the weight advantage of the roof made of carbon-fibre-reinforced plastic (CFRP) on the BMW M2 (2023)?

The roof of the BMW M2 (2023) made of carbon-fibre-reinforced plastic (CFRP) is approx. 6 kg (approx. 13 lb) lighter than a comparable steel roof.

You answered your own question.

The stock car comes with a steel roof, no sunroof. So a carbon fibre sheet will save much less weight (the 6kg mentioned).

Compared to the optional sunroof, the carbon fibre saves the weight on the steel portion (maybe around 5 kg) + the additional sunroof cartridge; imagine a big piece of tempered glass, it can’t weigh less than 10 kg, plus the motor and mechanism. It’s definitely correct to say there’s a 50lbs savings with going CF over sunroof.

Whether that’s perceptible I don’t know because I’ve never driven a car without the carbon roof.

[JABCAT]

I'm curious for those that think the steering is numb or the vehicle is not engaging to drive, what are you expecting it to feel like? We're talking street driving correct, not track driving?

I've driven performance cars nearly since the day I got my license, now 30 years ago. I've owned at least 3 dozen different ones, both auto & manual. I currently own a '11 Callaway supercharged Carbon Edition Z06 equipped with the Z07 track pkg (manual), my M2 (auto), and frequently drive my wife's '22 X3MC.

Obviously they're all different, but they are all very enjoyable to drive. I got the auto in the M2 because it's my daily driver. Traffic in my areas is horrendous. The M2 is crazy fast, handles exceptionally well, the sport seats are significantly better than the Z06 seats. If there weren't only 3 of these Z06 in existence, I'd put some much better seats in it. I've driven the M2 along the same curvy country roads that I take the Z out for fun, and it's almost as fun as the Z.

I'm not an experienced track person so I'm probably not in-tune with the vehicles as some others may be, but compared to my Z that is really set up for track use, I feel I get enough feedback from the M2 to know exactly what the car is doing both in a straight line and through curves.

I also think you can set the auto to shift very well and find myself not using the paddles because it works so well. My daily commute includes about 2-3 miles of pretty tight curves and hills. If I hit it right with minimal traffic, it's a very enjoyable part of my commute. I put it in Sport+ and the auto is outstanding. One area where I see myself getting into trouble with the M2 is not realizing how fast I'm going. In the Z, and obviously with a manual, I'm much more aware of the speed. The M2 is much quieter & hits triple digits with very little effort (may have accidentally done that on the interstate today).

Again, just one man's point of view.

[abrandonment]

Roughly 1% of total weight to have a sunroof is such an easy choice for me to make. I'd option it if it were 10%.

[DS_BMW]

You just can't beat the Quadrifoglio's when it comes to emotional feel. Depreciation is so bad though, I have had 2 of them. Still have the Stelvio QV, man I miss that Giulia though!! Exciting car to drive and they sound awesome to me. If only you could get service Like BMW probably the biggest downfall besides Depreciation. Maybe since they won't be making them anymore after July, hopefully they will go up in value. Wishful thinking probably

[M2siast]

Alfa Romeo made the fatal mistake of not bringing the manual transmission to North America. DOA.
I’d be driving one today and would probably have skipped the M2…

[xtougher]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

I'm curious for those that think the steering is numb or the vehicle is not engaging to drive, what are you expecting it to feel like? We're talking street driving correct, not track driving?

I've driven performance cars nearly since the day I got my license, now 30 years ago. I've owned at least 3 dozen different ones, both auto & manual. I currently own a '11 Callaway supercharged Carbon Edition Z06 equipped with the Z07 track pkg (manual), my M2 (auto), and frequently drive my wife's '22 X3MC.

Obviously they're all different, but they are all very enjoyable to drive. I got the auto in the M2 because it's my daily driver. Traffic in my areas is horrendous. The M2 is crazy fast, handles exceptionally well, the sport seats are significantly better than the Z06 seats. If there weren't only 3 of these Z06 in existence, I'd put some much better seats in it. I've driven the M2 along the same curvy country roads that I take the Z out for fun, and it's almost as fun as the Z.

I'm not an experienced track person so I'm probably not in-tune with the vehicles as some others may be, but compared to my Z that is really set up for track use, I feel I get enough feedback from the M2 to know exactly what the car is doing both in a straight line and through curves.

I also think you can set the auto to shift very well and find myself not using the paddles because it works so well. My daily commute includes about 2-3 miles of pretty tight curves and hills. If I hit it right with minimal traffic, it's a very enjoyable part of my commute. I put it in Sport+ and the auto is outstanding. One area where I see myself getting into trouble with the M2 is not realizing how fast I'm going. In the Z, and obviously with a manual, I'm much more aware of the speed. The M2 is much quieter & hits triple digits with very little effort (may have accidentally done that on the interstate today).

Again, just one man's point of view.

I resonate with this some (although I can't relate because I don't have a 1 of 3 car!).

I do agree and feel that the cars I have driven have felt different from each other. And I have preferences as well.

But I don't see myself thinking the G87's steering is "terrible" or completely absent of feel.

Also, I'm personally not looking for a go kart level of steering feel, since I'm daily driving this for a while.

I think it's fine, and in fact, feels better than my previous car (340i).

[xtougher]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Alfa Romeo made the fatal mistake of not bringing the manual transmission to North America. DOA.
I’d be driving one today and would probably have skipped the M2…

Have you driven it much before?

I haven't, but have seen them around a lot. I know the reviews are overall very positive, but didn't really look into people's thoughts/perspectives beyond "I really like it" type of comments.

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by xtougher

Have you driven it much before?

I haven't, but have seen them around a lot. I know the reviews are overall very positive, but didn't really look into people's thoughts/perspectives beyond "I really like it" type of comments.

Never even been in one.
No manual, no care.

But if it had a manual, when it launched, it would have been incredible based on reviews and my own views:

- awesome sound (much better than F8X)
- incredible power
- practical
- awesome handling
- beautiful styling
- unique
- quirky
- cheaper than an F80

All things I look for.
I could do with the lack of reliability and poor service (I guess I’d stop taking it in and just do work on my own).