[xtougher]

Originally Posted by BroDoze

I’ve had cars (STIs, 135s etc) I’ve modified to the point where I could barely stand them for more than 15-30 minutes at a time in traffic and crappy roads and long drives. I told myself I wouldn’t do that again. I think it’s a trade off like everything. In my 20s I was all about it. In my 40s, I need a little comfort, lol. Which I realize sacrifices some raw go-kartness.

I'm sure your kidneys thank you!

My body definitely doesn't feel the way it used to. (I guess you can take that comment a lot of different directions. LOL)

Originally Posted by toprarnen

I used to live near a really nice outdoor karting track that scratched that truly "raw" itch. Getting back into my car ('06 IS350) after a 30-lap race was a relief!

30-lap race?? That sounds fun to try!

[toprarnen]

Originally Posted by xtougher

30-lap race?? That sounds fun to try!

They call it their "Iron man". Laps average around 1:06 per. My body was DONE after that race lol

[Mr. Hankey]

Originally Posted by wj100

My previous cars were Supra, Giulia QV, F82 M4 and E90 M3.

wj - curious your thoughts of the M2 to the F82? Based on a test drive I found the M2 not as rowdy as the F8X down low, less torquey and seems they went for more linear acceleration making it feel more like an NA engine.

Also what wheels are those and color? Do you have a side picture of your car? Trying to decide on a titanium/anthracite color vs Black for BG and yours is the first car I've seen on what looks like a satin titanium.

[xtougher]

Originally Posted by toprarnen

They call it their "Iron man". Laps average around 1:06 per. My body was DONE after that race lol

Yeah, I'm fairly certain I would not be able to complete the race! LOL

[Can’tWait]

Originally Posted by DrewNewM2

I switch back and forth between the g87 and my modified 450 whp 2020 STi and the hydraulic steering, short shifter, short gearing, stiff sway bars and coilovers make the STi feel way more connected than the M2, especially around town. STi has more lag on aftermarket single turbo but when shit hits, it’s hard. M2 definitely has more of an isolated feeling, very quiet, long shifter throws, excellent ride quality, high potential S58 and will shine at triple digits on big tracks, autobahn. I had intended to sell the STi when the M2 came but hard to get rid of and I like them both for what they are. M2 is not numb, it’s just high tech and really refined. I feel the manual transmission helps . I have a manual Bronco as well so engagement is important to me. Save the manuals!

I too have a fully built 16 STi and originally wanted a manual M2 ,but didn’t want to wait almost a year for an allocation . I settled for a 24 auto M2 , I can always row gears in the STi if the M2 gets boring

[wj100]

Originally Posted by Mr. Hankey

wj - curious your thoughts of the M2 to the F82? Based on a test drive I found the M2 not as rowdy as the F8X down low, less torquey and seems they went for more linear acceleration making it feel more like an NA engine.

Also what wheels are those and color? Do you have a side picture of your car? Trying to decide on a titanium/anthracite color vs Black for BG and yours is the first car I've seen on what looks like a satin titanium.

Mr. Hankey,

Your thoughts on the G87 vs. F82 are spot on. While I appreciate the NA-like characteristics of the S58, to me, for everyday driving on public roads, it's more difficult to extract excitement from the G87 vs. the F82. There was a certain frenetic-ness that just made the F82 more exciting around town. You really have to wind out the G87 to get to the fun zone and that's difficult to do on a regular basis without losing your license.

As far as the wheel go, they are from Bspk wheels in Gunmetal. Here's the pic per your request.

[Ravenseal]

Originally Posted by abrandonment

Roughly 1% of total weight to have a sunroof is such an easy choice for me to make. I'd option it if it were 10%.

It's not about the total weight, it's about the center of gravity. Plenty of other performance cars offer carbon roof for the same reason. It's another reason sports cars sit lower than sedans and cross overs. It's very easy to notice changes in center of gravity and rotational mass on a car, regardless of it's overall weight.

[abrandonment]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

It's not about the total weight, it's about the center of gravity. Plenty of other performance cars offer carbon roof for the same reason. It's another reason sports cars sit lower than sedans and cross overs. It's very easy to notice changes in center of gravity and rotational mass on a car, regardless of it's overall weight.

So you think in a blind test you could tell the difference between an M2 with and without the carbon roof?

[chris719]

Originally Posted by abrandonment

So you think in a blind test you could tell the difference between an M2 with and without the carbon roof?

Exactly, it's inconsequential. I've driven F82 with CF and with sunroof back to back. It's unnoticeable. The only tangible benefits are cosmetic and headroom.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

It's not about the total weight, it's about the center of gravity. Plenty of other performance cars offer carbon roof for the same reason. It's another reason sports cars sit lower than sedans and cross overs. It's very easy to notice changes in center of gravity and rotational mass on a car, regardless of it's overall weight.

So, if you model it or do some simple back of the envelope calculations, how many mm do you think the center of gravity drops when removing 50 lbs from the roof? I'm too lazy to do it, but I took 3 semesters of physics and statics in college and I'm pretty sure you're going to be disappointed with the real number. BMW likes to spend their money in questionable ways for aesthetic and marketing benefit. Remember the F8x carbon strut brace? Looks cool but no real benefit over the steel brace that was fitted to all the prototype cars.

[Sebis]

Originally Posted by chris719

So, if you model it or do some simple back of the envelope calculations, how many mm do you think the center of gravity drops when removing 50 lbs from the roof? I'm too lazy to do it, but I took 3 semesters of physics and statics in college and I'm pretty sure you're going to be disappointed with the real number. BMW likes to spend their money in questionable ways for aesthetic and marketing benefit. Remember the F8x carbon strut brace? Looks cool but no real benefit over the steel brace that was fitted to all the prototype cars.

If you put this way, many of us won’t benefit from the difference in the center of gravity. However, I got the carbon roof for multiple reasons, in no particular order:

- more headroom, especially for rear passengers. My son is only 11 now but he is growing fast.
- I dislike the sunroof, intend to keep the M2 for a long time and sunroofs beak and leak down the road, even if you don’t use it. Ask me how I know…
- no option for sunroof delete in the US.
- it looks amazing and I feel like a drive a special car.

At the end of the day, the actual mathematical calculations don’t matter, it is all about the experience. Combined with the M Performance suspension and interior upgrades like CF trim, alcantara center arm rest, performance shift knob, I have a grin on my face every time I get inside and drive.

[robopp]

Originally Posted by abrandonment

So you think in a blind test you could tell the difference between an M2 with and without the carbon roof?

Not even a chance.

[toprarnen]

Originally Posted by Sebis

- more headroom, especially for rear passengers. My son is only 11 now but he is growing fast.

I really just want to verify, because from what I've heard, the only beneficiaries of the carbon roof in regards to head space are the front passenger and driver.

Did you have this confirmed somewhere? I unfortunately haven't had the chance to see a carbon and sunroof version side by side before.

Thanks!

[Sebis]

Originally Posted by toprarnen

I really just want to verify, because from what I've heard, the only beneficiaries of the carbon roof in regards to head space are the front passenger and driver.

Did you have this confirmed somewhere? I unfortunately haven't had the chance to see a carbon and sunroof version side by side before.

Thanks!

I don’t have it handy, but someone posted pictures with and without sunroof and there was a noticeable difference in the rear. That glass needs to fit somewhere when you open it.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Sebis

If you put this way, many of us won’t benefit from the difference in the center of gravity. However, I got the carbon roof for multiple reasons, in no particular order:

- more headroom, especially for rear passengers. My son is only 11 now but he is growing fast.
- I dislike the sunroof, intend to keep the M2 for a long time and sunroofs beak and leak down the road, even if you don’t use it. Ask me how I know…
- no option for sunroof delete in the US.
- it looks amazing and I feel like a drive a special car.

At the end of the day, the actual mathematical calculations don’t matter, it is all about the experience. Combined with the M Performance suspension and interior upgrades like CF trim, alcantara center arm rest, performance shift knob, I have a grin on my face every time I get inside and drive.

Oh, I agree and am planning to order the CF roof. I just don't have any illusions about the real-world performance benefit.

Originally Posted by Sebis

I don’t have it handy, but someone posted pictures with and without sunroof and there was a noticeable difference in the rear. That glass needs to fit somewhere when you open it.

I would be surprised if there is a big ndifference by the time you get near the rear glass because the sunroof on these cars is short and gets tucked into the more horizontal portion of the roof, but you might be right.

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by Sebis

I don’t have it handy, but someone posted pictures with and without sunroof and there was a noticeable difference in the rear. That glass needs to fit somewhere when you open it.

That was me who posted the 2 photos, if it makes it easier for folks to search for it.

I too haven’t had the chance to sit in one with the sunroof to compare, but it’s not true the sunroof is short. It’s large; another reason I dislike it in this car. In my 135i the sunroof would open all the way, and you’d have the entire opening.
In the 2 series, because the panel is so large and the roof so short, the glass sticks out about 3/4 (or maybe 6/8s, I’m not sure which lol) of the way on the back, because the roof slopes and the glass can’t go back further.

The headroom in the back is affected by the roof before it slopes, in my experience (sitting there every time I put my son in the car seat), so I bet the headroom in the rear is affected by the sunroof.

[BroDoze]

Originally Posted by wj100

Mr. Hankey,
While I appreciate the NA-like characteristics of the S58, to me, for everyday driving on public roads, it's more difficult to extract excitement from the G87 vs. the F82. There was a certain frenetic-ness that just made the F82 more exciting around town. You really have to wind out the G87 to get to the fun zone and that's difficult to do on a regular basis without losing your license.

I hear ya on this. On my few test drives, I noticed the S58 doesn’t have that stump-pulling, ball-busting torque down low like some other cars. It’s a great power band, but I had to really have my foot in it and be in the higher rpm’s to feel the bulk of the power.

[apez]

Originally Posted by BroDoze

I hear ya on this. On my few test drives, I noticed the S58 doesn’t have that stump-pilling, ball-busting torque down low like some other cars. It’s a great power band, bust I had to really have my foot in it and be in the higher rpm’s to feel the bulk of the power.

True, which just means you get to rev it out more! Just ignore the MPGs.

[Ravenseal]

Originally Posted by abrandonment

So you think in a blind test you could tell the difference between an M2 with and without the carbon roof?

It's all incremental. I've already shaved 130lbs off my car compared to a sunroof/automatic G87, and I haven't even resorted to extremes. Anyone who tells you they can't notice that aggregate difference doesn't know anything about cars, or how to drive them at the limit.

[Carefree]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

It's all incremental. I've already shaved 130lbs off my car compared to a sunroof/automatic G87, and I haven't even resorted to extremes. Anyone who tells you they can't notice that aggregate difference doesn't know anything about cars, or how to drive them at the limit.

This is our first M car and it’s certain I don’t know how to drive it to the limit.

Undoubtedly I couldn’t tell the carbon/sunroof weight difference.

[Ravenseal]

Originally Posted by Carefree

This is our first M car and it’s certain I don’t know how to drive it to the limit.

Undoubtedly I couldn’t tell the carbon/sunroof weight difference.

I've been tracking cars and racing karts for years. It takes time and lot of experience driving different cars and setups in order to be able to discern small details about unsprung mass, overall system weight, weight balancing, tire and wheel setup, suspension alignment, etc, etc.

Just because normal people can't notice the difference when cruising at 65mph on the highway or driving the speed limit on back roads, it doesn't mean it's not there when the car is driven at the limit.

BMW setups the car for daily drivability, speed, and comfort. It's all the average M owner will ever experience. If you care more than that, there's plenty of overhead on this platform for improvements in cornering, feel, acceleration, and responsiveness.

[robopp]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

It's all incremental. I've already shaved 130lbs off my car compared to a sunroof/automatic G87, and I haven't even resorted to extremes. Anyone who tells you they can't notice that aggregate difference doesn't know anything about cars, or how to drive them at the limit.

130lbs?! Lol, only 550+lbs to go. If you take a dump before driving that’s probably good for 1-2lbs of weight savings too.