[danallxt]

Originally Posted by Saturns

Actually this is a great conversation. Even though the manual states 0w-20 that oil is very thin and for more fuel efficiency. Doesn't really do a good job with wear and tear long term.

At first i misread your comment, you really needed a period after "0w-20" as i at first read it that BMW manual was stating that it is more for fuel efficiency. The manual is very specific in terms of oil and says:

The engine oil grade is critical for the service life
of the engine.
Only add with the types of engine oil which are
listed.
NOTICE
Incorrect engine oil can cause malfunctions in
the engine or damage it. There is a risk of damage
to property, among other potential damage.
When selecting an engine oil, make sure
that the engine oil has the correct oil specification.

Do you have documentation or evidence that using the recommended BMW oils in this specific B58 engine..

Doesn't really do a good job with wear and tear long term.

Now i am not a proponent of 0-20 or 0-16 oils but i have a problem with broad unsupported statements. No doubt a higher viscosity oil will provide better high temp protection under serve duty use in general terms. But has there been a long term wear and tear problem with this specific engine with those specific BMW spec oils?

[Saturns]

Originally Posted by danallxt

At first i misread your comment, you really needed a period after "0w-20" as i at first read it that BMW manual was stating that it is more for fuel efficiency. The manual is very specific in terms of oil and says:



Do you have documentation or evidence that using the recommended BMW oils in this specific B58 engine..

Now i am not a proponent of 0-20 or 0-16 oils but i have a problem with broad unsupported statements. No doubt a higher viscosity oil will provide better high temp protection under serve duty use in general terms. But has there been a long term wear and tear problem with this specific engine with those specific BMW spec oils?

Very good points to be discussed. I am no engineer. This is all google research.. LOL

My take on it ... and take it with a grain of salt....
my take on oil is more in general than specifically B58 engine....

https://www.pennzoil.com/en_ca/educa...sity-faqs.html

Within the past decade, original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) have been tasked to meet the legislated regulations for better fuel economy and lowered emissions OEMs have made huge strides by reducing engine size and maintain horsepower performance through the introduction of smaller Turbocharged Gasoline Direct Injection engines (TGDI) and operating on thinner viscosity grades.
The push for SAE 0W-20 and SAE 0W-16 motor oils grades has helped OEMs achieve some of those fuel economy and emission targets.

0W grade (which is thinner) motor oil for your vehicle are faster flow at start-up to reach critical engine parts, faster engine warm up and delivers better fuel economy as compared to higher viscosity grade oils.

https://lubricantsadvisor.com/0w20-v...-fuel-economy/

0W-20 oil is a thin oil that is used in some newer cars. This oil is designed to reduce friction between moving parts and improve fuel economy. On the other hand, 5W-30 oil is a slightly thicker oil that is recommended for a wider range of vehicles, especially those that are older or have higher mileage. This oil is designed to protect against wear and tear.

5W-30 oil is slightly thicker than 0W-20 oil and it’s designed to protect the engine’s moving parts from wear and tear. It is formulated to provide better protection against wear and tear under high loads, extreme temperatures, and other demanding conditions.

So changing up to 5W30 or 5W40 from a car that recommends 0W20 shouldnt be an issue. It would be an issue though for cars that recommend 5W40 and switching to 0W20.


My past/current sports cars have been typically NA v8 and v10 a few years old cars. Usually used sports cars ... Even if they recommended 0w-X I normally default to 5w30 or 5w40

I had a SuperTrofeo Stradale LP570-4 which was the gt4 racecar but made for the road..so road specs. The engine bay area ran super hot ...specially when we drove 6 hours at 200-250+kms with little breaks into Nashville (i mean mexico) hot summer days in the 90's temperature. Running Motul 300v 5w40 type IV (or V) oil on those very hot days versus running a less viscous oil the year prior the engine ran much stronger and with less ticking..

The shop I deal with used to run the Porsche gt3 Cup racing team, audi sport LMS series. They swear by using these type of IV (or V) oils made the cars run stronger and perform optimal with the high temperatures in the engine bays. They use Motul 300v 5w40 type IV(or V) oils but they do more change intervals that thinner oil.

And this is what I'm planning do ... and not necessarily the right or proper thing to do..

Since this is a daily car for me. Change the oil with scheduled maintenance service with dealership just before winter 0w30... In spring change oil back to 5w30 or 5w40. Change every 8000km (5000miles). Since most of my hard driving will be summer months

And then back to 0w30 in the winter months again.

Why I change in viscosity.... because of the temperature changes where I live.

[Saturns]

The chart above doesn't show a SAE 0W-20, based on this chart, the temperature range of a 0W-20 multi-grade would be "-40°C to +30°C"
So wouldnt one want to have the right oil to operate in temperatures over 30 degrees if one is in that environment?

[danallxt]

Geesh...looks like i get sucked into another oil thread..here goes.

Just to play devil's advocate. Here's an advocate for thinner oils vs thick oils. In this case it primarily advocates against overly thick oil. Towards the end of this I provide the source for the following. This is for the oil nerds here.

Thinner oil flows quicker at cold start-up to begin lubricating critical engine components much more quickly than thicker oil can. Most engine wear takes place during cold start-up before oil flow can reach all the components (the longer an engine has been sitting, the more of a concern this becomes), and during warm-up while the oil is still thicker and not flowing as freely as it does during normal hot operating temperature. So, quicker flowing thinner oil will help reduce start-up and warm-up engine wear, which is actually reducing wear overall.

Thinner oil also flows more freely when fully warmed-up to normal operating temperatures. And oil FLOW is lubrication, but oil pressure is NOT lubrication. Oil pressure is only a measurement of resistance to flow. Thinner oil will produce less oil pressure than a thicker oil.

Here are some comparison numbers from an 830 HP road race engine on the track:
15W50 oil = 80 psi = 265* oil sump temperature
5W20 oil = 65 psi = 240* oil sump temperature

Plain bearings, such as rod and main bearings, are lubricated by oil flow, not by oil pressure. Oil pressure is NOT what keeps these parts separated. Oil pressure serves only to supply the oil to the clearance between the bearings and the crankshaft journals. Those parts are kept apart by the incompressible hydrodynamic liquid oil wedge that is formed as the liquid oil is pulled in by the spinning crankshaft. As long as sufficient oil is supplied by the necessary oil pressure no wear can occur. And the higher flow rate of thinner oil, supplies more oil volume to the main and rod bearings, which also helps ensure that the critical incompressible hydrodynamic liquid oil wedge is always maintained.
Thinner oil will of course flow out from the bearing clearances quicker than thicker oil will. But, by making sure there is sufficient oil pressure as mentioned above, the oil supply will always stay ahead of the oil flowing out, which will maintain that critical incompressible hydrodynamic liquid oil wedge.

• Oil flow is what carries heat away from internal engine components. Those engine components are DIRECTLY oil cooled, but only INdirectly water cooled. Flow of oil through the bearings is what cools them. If you run thicker oil than needed, you will drive up engine component temps.
Thicker oil which flows more slowly and generates more heat from shearing, it is not carrying heat away and cooling the bearings as well or as quickly as it could, so that drives up bearing temps. This in turn, causes hotter oil to be coming out of the bearings and into the sump, which results in higher oil temps.

Thicker oils DO NOT automatically provide better wear protection than thinner oils, as some people mistakenly believe. Extensive “dynamic wear testing under load” of approximately 200 motor oils, has shown that the base oil and its additive package “as a whole”, with the primary emphasis on the additive package, which is what contains the extreme pressure anti-wear components, is what determines an oil’s wear protection capability, NOT its viscosity. In fact, the test data has shown that 5W20 oils can provide INCREDIBLE wear protection with over 120,000 psi load carrying capability/film strength/shear resistance, while 15W50 oils can sometimes only provide UNDESIRABLE wear protection with less than 60,000 psi. So, DO NOT use thicker oil under the assumption that it can provide better wear protection for our engines, because that is simply NOT TRUE.

Note: Most of the above was taken from an extensive oil blog called RAT540 and it analyses of hundreds of different oils and has extensive writings on oil related stuff. Author is a mechanical engineer.

My comments: Having said all that, as for super thin oils, be aware that 5W20 motor oil came about only to perhaps slightly help improve Auto Makers’ C.A.F.E. (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) numbers. It did NOT come about to actually mechanically help the engines in any way.
I personally believe virtually any engine that calls for 5W20 or 0-20, can also safely use 5W30.And may be better protected, and make less mechanical noise with 5W30. (Just my opinion). And not all 5w30 oils are the same, I do extensive research on individual oil properties of specific branded oils before choosing one. Note I do run 5w-30 in my M240x.

[Xspeedracer]

https://youtu.be/ASAdkJydBFU

[Mike_H_]

Originally Posted by danallxt

Note I do run 5w-30 in my M240x.

Any chance it's the one RAT540 has as the best oil he's ever tested?

[AlexC2er]

Originally Posted by danallxt

Geesh...looks like i get sucked into another oil thread..here goes.

Just to play devil's advocate. Here's an advocate for thinner oils vs thick oils. In this case it primarily advocates against overly thick oil. Towards the end of this I provide the source for the following. This is for the oil nerds here.

Thinner oil flows quicker at cold start-up to begin lubricating critical engine components much more quickly than thicker oil can. Most engine wear takes place during cold start-up before oil flow can reach all the components (the longer an engine has been sitting, the more of a concern this becomes), and during warm-up while the oil is still thicker and not flowing as freely as it does during normal hot operating temperature. So, quicker flowing thinner oil will help reduce start-up and warm-up engine wear, which is actually reducing wear overall.

Thinner oil also flows more freely when fully warmed-up to normal operating temperatures. And oil FLOW is lubrication, but oil pressure is NOT lubrication. Oil pressure is only a measurement of resistance to flow. Thinner oil will produce less oil pressure than a thicker oil.

Here are some comparison numbers from an 830 HP road race engine on the track:
15W50 oil = 80 psi = 265* oil sump temperature
5W20 oil = 65 psi = 240* oil sump temperature

Plain bearings, such as rod and main bearings, are lubricated by oil flow, not by oil pressure. Oil pressure is NOT what keeps these parts separated. Oil pressure serves only to supply the oil to the clearance between the bearings and the crankshaft journals. [...]

Great info. Which oil do you run

[chris719]

Originally Posted by danallxt

Note: Most of the above was taken from an extensive oil blog called RAT540 and it analyses of hundreds of different oils and has extensive writings on oil related stuff. Author is a mechanical engineer.

I would just note that 540RAT is kind of a nutjob. There is a lot of quackery mixed in with a bit of truth. His testing is not really representative of actual engine conditions and his conclusions are flawed/wrong.

[armandnouri]

Originally Posted by chris719

I would just note that 540RAT is kind of a nutjob. There is a lot of quackery mixed in with a bit of truth. His testing is not really representative of actual engine conditions and his conclusions are flawed/wrong.

"His testing is not really representative of actual engine conditions."

This is why he specifies in his WordPress blog that it is up to you, the reader, to make your own decisions based on your operating conditions, as there are so many variables that can affect how well an engine oil performs. Even testing directly in an engine, there are, once again, so many variables that can come into play that affect how well an engine oil performs over the other. His blog is very eye-opening, and it helps its readers make decisions on their own. If you take it at face value and just scroll to number 1 and shove Quaker state into your engine, then I feel like you didn't read his blog correctly.

I agree; he talks a bit like he has an ego complex. But he shares a lot of relevant information.

I, for one, have run RedLine 5W30 high performance in my 2022 M240ix for an extended period of time and have done extensive testing with Polaris Labs and under my operating conditions (one major one being zero winter/cold weather driving), my engine has responded better to the RedLine 5W30 than the factory 0W20. Although, I have not run tests on the factory 0W30, nor do I intend to.

Could you run the 0W20 under normal operating conditions and be fine? Potentially, I have nothing to prove otherwise, other than being skeptical. However; I don't daily this car, and it is strictly a pleasure car. As such, I wouldn't say it's driven conservatively.

I do remember the N20 sometime in the early 2010s calling for 0w30 and then switching to 0w20 in the following year for no apparent reason or any changes to the car. I have never agreed with what BMW says, which is why I forced them to service my entire drivetrain fluids as part of the break-in process.

[armandnouri]

Originally Posted by XC3LLR8

Still a long wait for the M240i to arrive, but I think I've picked my oil. Curious if anyone else is using Red Line 5w30 and/or Wix XP filters? I've read nothing but good things about Royal Purple oil filters, but I don't think there's an option (yet) for this car.

Yes, I know the viscosity and rating is not blessed by the BMW gods, and I don't care.

Just curious if anyone's had anything other than perfect praise for this Group V ester base stock synthetic oil?

Stick to the original BMW genuine filter (INEOS) you can buy from the dealership.

It has the highest # of pleats at 50. Do not use anything else. I (for a while) considered the MMR Filter (which only has 42 pleats), but I noticed that the filter bypass valve was absent on the MMR kit (compared to OE). Ultimately, that kit is still sitting on my closet and it's not worth my time or money to extensively test. If I were to do a proper lab analysis of both filters under RedLine 5W30, I'd be looking at $1000 CAD to have a rough answer.

As for oil filter collapse, it is said that this only happens on extended drain intervals, but I've seen it on cars that sit for a while as well and don't put on too much mileage. It seems to me like it is very time-based, but I have also seen the filters come apart because the way the filter is built is just flawed in general. Apply too much force, and it breaks. That, however, is usually caused by garage warriors who try to do things themselves.

My solution is to swap the filter out during the halfway point and have it done by my local BMW dealership/service centre. I have a good rep (figuratively and literally speaking) there, and they do it for free.


TLDR: stick to the ORIGINAL BMW filter, and swap it out half way.

[Maxp]

The original BMW filter made by MANN?