[tetsuo111]

Sorry for the double-post. A similar post appears in the E91 picture thread.

One of my interests is weight management / weight reduction.

Why?

Colin Chapman said, "adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere" and "simplify, then add lightness".

My experience agrees with Chapman's perspective. In my case, not so much to go fast (this is still a wagon after all...), rather to enhance and enjoy the agility of the E91 platform.

My wagon weighs ~3200 lbs with a half tank of fuel. It feels light and agile and different (in a good way) after dropping around 300 lbs. And it feels great driving the car whether commuting or tracking.

The Point:

I've had a conversation with Alex at S2R about fabricating a CF plug for an E91 panoramic roof delete. S2R has a documented history of fabricating well-fitting, quality CF sunroof delete plugs for the BMW community. The motivation is reducing 60 lbs of weight from one of the highest points on the car - the roof. I also had a similar conversation with a CF fabricator locally in Seattle. Both vendors are willing to support this project for a minimum production run to make it worthwhile. The numbers vary from 4 - 6 units.

S2R E92 plugs retail for $400. Alex estimates the larger size and materials needed to fabricate a plug for a pano roof might run an additional $100 or so, making this weight loss project tremendously attractive from an economic and performance perspective @ $8.33 / lb ! This metric is at the extreme end of the range.

S2R Tuning

My Proposal(s):

1) I'm seeking an E91 owner with similar interests, located around the LA region to volunteer to be the test mule for this project. The volunteering part means visiting Alex for a session to dimension the mold for a plug. I would do this myself but live in a different part of the country.

2) I'm seeking a list of like-minded E91 owners to express interest in a product like this. I will use my car as the test mule for the CF fabricator here in Seattle. I would like a half dozen or more owners as an incentive for this vendor to commit to the project.

Summary:

Whether you want to reduce weight for performance or fuel economy, or simply are attracted by the aesthetics of a well-documented, well-fitting, and quality carbon fiber roof panel, we are close to having this option available for our platform. The economics are ridiculously attractive, compared with other weight-saving measures.

But in order to make this happen, the vendors need some expression of interest from our community, or one person to volunteer in LA. Let's make this happen!

Thanks.


Pics from the late, great justpete :

JustPete S2R

[rothwem]

Jeez, this sounds pretty awesome, I'd love to eliminate the scary failure prone sunroof and its propensity to break and leak. I'm a bit unclear on the install though, what all is involved? This is something I'd like to DIY, but I'm not totally comfortable cutting and welding on my car.

Also, is there any reason why the stock headliner would not be able to be reused? Is the shade part of the sunroof cassette?

[tetsuo111]

Originally Posted by rothwem

Jeez, this sounds pretty awesome, I'd love to eliminate the scary failure prone sunroof and its propensity to break and leak. I'm a bit unclear on the install though, what all is involved? This is something I'd like to DIY, but I'm not totally comfortable cutting and welding on my car.

Also, is there any reason why the stock headliner would not be able to be reused? Is the shade part of the sunroof cassette?

I've been away. A lot, recently!

I can't believe that there's only one reply to this thread. This project is one of the best from both a performance / weight loss and economics perspective.

The installation process has been thoroughly vetted and documented by the E36 / E46 / E9x communities. There are several installs documented around here and other forums. Simply remove the OEM cartridge, and replace with the CF plug with fasteners in OEM locations and a bead of silicon. The end result and fitment look professional and "finished". The quality of the CF material is superb, according to all installs I've read.

Non-pano headliners are hard to come by outside Europe. I plan to simply keep and use the one currently in the car.

Only one volunteer in the LA region is needed to move forward! And that volunteer might get a discount for being the prototype / beta tester.

The end result is ~ 60 lbs removed from the highest point on the vehicle, and no leaks nor breakage on the failure-prone pano roof.

Price in the $550 range +/-

[dakine_surf]

Depending on what happens here with a potential e91 project, I'd be in. My DD e91 is too nice to not have sunroof on nice sunny CA days.

But the project I have in mind would be perfect for something like this.

[tetsuo111]

Originally Posted by dakine_surf

Depending on what happens here with a potential e91 project, I'd be in. My DD e91 is too nice to not have sunroof on nice sunny CA days.

But the project I have in mind would be perfect for something like this.

Please keep us posted. For drivers who don't use the pano roof, the circumstances are compelling. Thanks

[tlow98]

I don't use it but since it's still a shared car she does...

Just need to buy her an SUV and I'm good to go. I'd ditch the pano in a minute.

[Thorin]

This is interesting! I was considering a full CF roof as a stretch goal project (which would mean getting a flat headliner from Europe- eek!).

Is the weight saving taking into account removal of all motors, rails, and accompanying hardware?

[Jagtem]

Your enthusiasm is admirable, but I mean... it's a BMW wagon. It's never going to be a Lotus on the track. I really doubt you'd be able to discern a noticeable performance increase by deleting the sun roof. I say just enjoy a nice feature of the car. When I had my Audi Q5 and then SQ5, the panoramic roof was one of my favorite features.... and that was in Connecticut! Now that I'm back in San Diego you can bet I enjoy popping the top on my E90 whenever possible.

[bsmoov]

I’d be interested in a cf e91 trunk hatch. I’d happily be a test mule for that.

[Solarian]

I'm extremely interested in this as my panoramic roof has failed and will not open and shut. It's somehow stuck, not just a motor failure. I was actually hoping to replace the entire roof skin with a smooth carbon roof like on the M3s, but this looks way easier/cheaper to do. I can't be the mule though as I'm all the way up in Canada, but I'll commit to buy if there's a list.

[tetsuo111]

Originally Posted by Jagtem

Your enthusiasm is admirable, but I mean... it's a BMW wagon. It's never going to be a Lotus on the track. I really doubt you'd be able to discern a noticeable performance increase by deleting the sun roof. I say just enjoy a nice feature of the car. When I had my Audi Q5 and then SQ5, the panoramic roof was one of my favorite features.... and that was in Connecticut! Now that I'm back in San Diego you can bet I enjoy popping the top on my E90 whenever possible.

Strong summary of the reasons NOT to proceed with a sunroof delete.

Sure, the reasons you cite are valid and credible. I do love the Pano roof, driving through the Cascades and BC Coastal range in the summer.

The choice simply depends on circumstances and application...

[tetsuo111]

Originally Posted by bsmoov

I’d be interested in a cf e91 trunk hatch. I’d happily be a test mule for that.

bsmoov - Come on! You're in SoCal! Any interest in making a visit to the shop so he can take measurements and a mold?

[nsjames]

very interested, you're on the other side of the country.

but that's not insurmountable.

[sprp85]

Are there any update or progress on this?

[tetsuo111]

Originally Posted by sprp85

Are there any update or progress on this?

Yes.

This is a local CF fabricator specializing in serving the aerospace and motorsports markets. I've interviewed the owners, toured their facility, inspected the product quality, and have seen first-hand a number of vehicles on premise. I'm OCD and I would be very happy to have their work on my car.

Common Fibers

The cost is ~ $2k / long roof panel. Options include finish (matte, gloss, and paint grade).

This project drops ~ 100 lbs from the car, at the highpoint. At the same time, it solves the broken pano roof problem some have coped with.

Fabrication requires a donor vehicle (or cut roof from salvage) for creating a mold. Since they're located nearby, I would use mine as the donor and test fit vehicle.

I intend to do this, but isn't in the queue until next season. I have a bunch of partially completed projects that need to be completed first.

[nsjames]

I did get that PM, but man, unless we can get a bunch of people together to lower the cost, it's incredibly cost prohibitive.

I will likely attempt this myself this winter, as I'm not a rookie at composite work. I've just never done carbon fiber.

but I do own all of the aerospace composites stuff to vacuum bag fiberglass, so how hard can it be?

[E91WAG3N]

$2,000?!?! For a delete panel!

Might be cheaper to buy a new OEM roof panel from BMW, install and paint it. I’m sure you know ROW cars didn’t all have a moonroof. Plenty of folks have fit CSL roofs to E46s and someone here on E90post just swapped an M3 carbon roof onto his E92 328.

Edit: P/N is 41317179853, 983.90 USD excl. vat from Schmiedmann. Throw in shipping, paint, and headliner you'll be over the $2,000 mark but it's a much cleaner solution and you can get a black headliner in the process. The install does not look THAT bad imho.

[Redshift]

I’d love this for my e91.

[MaxMorgen]

I’ve been looking for something like this for my E91. However I’m not located in Cali. I don’t care about the cost, I track my wagon and want to cut as much weight as possible. Please keep me posted

[allex29]

Originally Posted by MaxMorgen

I’ve been looking for something like this for my E91. However I’m not located in Cali. I don’t care about the cost, I track my wagon and want to cut as much weight as possible. Please keep me posted

simple way is to cut the roof and swap it with another from a donor car without sunroof

[rothwem]

Originally Posted by allex29

simple way is to cut the roof and swap it with another from a donor car without sunroof

All E91s imported to the US have the panoramic sunroof.

[E91WAG3N]

Originally Posted by rothwem

All E91s imported to the US have the panoramic sunroof.

See my post above, it's not outrageously priced new. Much better option than commissioning a delete plug imho.