[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by PNTDG42

I’ve been in auto forums since before they started and were email based. The break-in discussion is eternal and there is no conclusion.

I have my own thoughts; it doesn’t matter. I’ve been in the automotive lifestyle for over 20 years. Never seen anyone lose an engine due to break in procedure. Nobody has ever won a race because of it, and nobody ever lost a race because of it. Never seen a warranty claim denied because of if. If there is some near negligibale difference, 99% of new car buyers will have replaced the car long before it mattered.

I believe the OEM still recommend it for 2 reasons only;

A; simply to encourage reasonable driving while you get used to your new car before you crash it, and they know if they straight out worded it that way, nobody would listen.

B; if the oil becomes contaminated quickly with debris introduced during production or assembly, you are reducing the likeliness of such debris circulating the oil pump rotors or possibly making it into the engine through an open oil filter internal pressure relief, by driving it easy. Since the oil pump is crankshaft driven, less average RPM means less oil circulation and less oil pressure that might open the filters internal valve.

In custom engine building; it’s pretty typical to change the oil after initial warm up to remove the bulk of potential contaminants, and then again after maybe a hour of driving around and looking for any leaks or issues to address. Then it’s straight to the dyno for full power tuning.

Do you think a break in of say 1200 miles (as per my 230i owners manual) is sufficient time to give a driver time to become adept at operating the vehicle?

Ok.

But I note my 707hp Dodge Challenger Hellcat also had a break in of 1200 miles. As did both my Dodge Challenger Scat Packs (485hp).

Are Dodge Hellcat buyers just better drivers and able to come up to speed, literally and figuratively, in 1200 miles with 707hp to master but BMW drivers need that same 1200 miles just to master around 250hp to 380hp?

Break in guidelines are about the same from car to car, brand and model. It is not about getting one acclimated to the new car. How can BMW or any car maker know that 1200 miles works for every owner/driver?

As for the oil being dirty, part of the break in suggests use more throttle as the miles cross (in this case) 1200 miles. So at some point there's the risk a dirty oil filter will cause a pressure bypass to open and circulate unfiltered oil as the driver dutifully attempts to adhere to the break in guidelines.

And there are cold engine starts and operation that could subject the engine to high RPMs cold and the resulting higher oil pressure causes a pressure bypass valve to open.

But it all boils down to what does the owner want to do? I'm not willing to risk another person's engine advising him a break in is a waste of time, nonsense, unnecessary. I don't believe that for my cars.

Thus I advise one to follow the automaker's recommendation. As with oil the automaker is the only authority on engine break in and like what oil it recommends what break in procedure it recommends should be heeded. To me better safe than sorry.

[PNTDG42]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

In engine building if the goal is for racing the idea is to get the engine making max power ASAP. There is no time for a lengthy break in.

But when I rebuilt engines for the street as I had been taught I started the engine then ran it at high RPMs (I think around 3K) for around 15 minutes or so. This was to mainly give the cam and lifters time to adapt to one another and the high RPMs helped insure sufficient oiling. This was with OHV engines. But I did this when I rebuilt an OHC engine, too.

Then shut off the engine drain the oil -- which was *not* break in oil but the same oil the engine would be filled with, oil change after oil change, the rest of its service life -- and fill with fresh oil and install a new filter. Then just drive the car. But this was a street car so the typical usage was pretty much in line with what was considered good engine break in usage.

That isn't my experience. For me, customers have always been more than willing to take it easy for break-in if they think it will be better for their extremely expensive build. They usually ask about it and are eager to comply if they believe it makes a difference. I have had out of state clients who insist on a specific break-in, and request me to use their car as my own until their ideal break-in is complete, and then finish the tuning at that time. Whatever helped them sleep better. I haven't personally seen anyone ignoring break-in for the sake of pushing projects out the door. But if nobody has a preference or if its a personal or shop project... its more of a quick initial run-in procedure to make sure everything is OK and functioning correctly, no contamination in the oil, and then get to business.

[PNTDG42]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Do you think a break in of say 1200 miles (as per my 230i owners manual) is sufficient time to give a driver time to become adept at operating the vehicle?

Ok.

1200 miles should hopefully be enough for most drivers to become familiar with their features and controls, so that they can focus on driving the vehicle instead of finding settings or adjusting their EQ. A new car is quite distracting to drive until you find your way around.

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

As for the oil being dirty, part of the break in suggests use more throttle as the miles cross (in this case) 1200 miles. So at some point there's the risk a dirty oil filter will cause a pressure bypass to open and circulate unfiltered oil as the driver dutifully attempts to adhere to the break in guidelines.

I already addressed that in my second reason I think the manufacturers might suggest a break-in period.

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Thus I advise one to follow the automaker's recommendation. As with oil the automaker is the only authority on engine break in and like what oil it recommends what break in procedure it recommends should be heeded. To me better safe than sorry.

No need for you to leave your comfort zone, proceed as you wish. I understand how deeply ingrained the religion of engine break-in is for many people.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by PNTDG42

1200 miles should hopefully be enough for most drivers to become familiar with their features and controls, so that they can focus on driving the vehicle instead of finding settings or adjusting their EQ. A new car is quite distracting to drive until you find your way around.



I already addressed that in my second reason I think the manufacturers might suggest a break-in period.




No need for you to leave your comfort zone, proceed as you wish. I understand how deeply ingrained the religion of engine break-in is for many people.

That 1200 mile "break in" is not to give the driver time to become familiar with the vehicle.

The driver should be familiar with the vehicle, to the point of being able to operate the vehicle in a safe and law abiding manner the moment he first gets behind the wheel.

Custom engine builders have their own engine break in (and oil) preferences.

That is understandable. The engine is their engine.

But like what the factory calls for my not suit the the custom engine builder likewise what the custom engine builder does may not be what's best for engines the factory builds.

And customers... The engine break in -- pretty much everything -- they want/believe they want will be all over the map.

My comfort zone regarding break in is based on my time spent working as a journeyman machinist and being intimately aware of how even the most precisely machined (turned, milled, ground, even honed) surfaces still need time to adapt to whatever it is they slide, spin, or roll against.

And it is best this happen at a reasonable pace to avoid the risk of damaging these sliding/spinning/rolling surfaces which no amount of further/subsequent break in can undo that damage.

[iroc86]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

But when I rebuilt engines for the street as I had been taught I started the engine then ran it at high RPMs (I think around 3K) for around 15 minutes or so. This was to mainly give the cam and lifters time to adapt to one another and the high RPMs helped insure sufficient oiling. This was with OHV engines. But I did this when I rebuilt an OHC engine, too.

Then shut off the engine drain the oil -- which was *not* break in oil but the same oil the engine would be filled with, oil change after oil change, the rest of its service life -- and fill with fresh oil and install a new filter. ...

Yep, exactly. I forgot about that. Break-in for a traditional flat tappet cam is kind of its own thing. That process was always to get the engine running "reasonably well" as soon as possible--even if timing and fueling were off--and just let it go for a while at a fixed midway RPM. Then change the oil and filter. Roller cams (OHV) were kind of a novelty because you didn't need to do that; the contact patch between the lifter and cam lobe is smaller and there's far less friction.

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

My comfort zone regarding break in is based on my time spent working as a journeyman machinist and being intimately aware of how even the most precisely machined (turned, milled, ground, even honed) surfaces still need time to adapt to whatever it is they slide, spin, or roll against.

I feel the same way (mechanical engineer here). I also agree with the argument that the average person just being a reasonable driver with a new car probably isn't going to hurt anything. Otherwise, warranty claims would abound... or the car manufacturers would perform some sort of break-in at the factory to idiot-proof the process.

[PNTDG42]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

That 1200 mile "break in" is not to give the driver time to become familiar with the vehicle.

The driver should be familiar with the vehicle, to the point of being able to operate the vehicle in a safe and law abiding manner the moment he first gets behind the wheel.

Custom engine builders have their own engine break in (and oil) preferences.

That is understandable. The engine is their engine.

But like what the factory calls for my not suit the the custom engine builder likewise what the custom engine builder does may not be what's best for engines the factory builds.

And customers... The engine break in — pretty much everything — they want/believe they want will be all over the map.

My comfort zone regarding break in is based on my time spent working as a journeyman machinist and being intimately aware of how even the most precisely machined (turned, milled, ground, even honed) surfaces still need time to adapt to whatever it is they slide, spin, or roll against.

And it is best this happen at a reasonable pace to avoid the risk of damaging these sliding/spinning/rolling surfaces which no amount of further/subsequent break in can undo that damage.

I must admit, you’ve definitely got a thorough opinion. I guess the only thing that’s missing now is actual data

[dasistato]

Not really. But I want to oil change soon.

My Q is: I dont drive much. Put about 400 miles in little over 2 months. Probably wont be at 1200 miles for another 3-4 months.. Should I do oil change around 600miles?

[danallxt]

Originally Posted by dasistato

Not really. But I want to oil change soon.

My Q is: I dont drive much. Put about 400 miles in little over 2 months. Probably wont be at 1200 miles for another 3-4 months.. Should I do oil change around 600miles?

aarghh
Ya want to change oil soon?....so you are asking the forum if you should? Yer gonna get all different answers, have you read the previous freaking posts? Or research 1000's of posts in other auto forums. You still won't get anything definite...do what ya wanna.
If ya wanna, change oil every 600 miles, or not.
I did a change very early, i do on all new engines (200-500 miles), just me, but I ain't gonna tell ya YOU SHOULD.

[PNTDG42]

Originally Posted by dasistato

Not really. But I want to oil change soon.

My Q is: I dont drive much. Put about 400 miles in little over 2 months. Probably wont be at 1200 miles for another 3-4 months.. Should I do oil change around 600miles?

You’d need to drain the oil and send some out for analysis to get a genuinely meaningful answer. Surely the oil itself is fine but it could potentially have picked up debris/contaminates left during production or assembly. It definitely can’t hurt to change the oil early. Personally I would go a little further. I trust OEMs engine assembly environment to be pretty good about reducing potential contamination. I did the standard 1200 mile first change on my S58, then did the second at 5000 and I will be doing every 5000ish from here out. Planning to do the same with my B58 whenever my m240 comes in

[dasistato]

Originally Posted by danallxt

aarghh
Ya want to change oil soon?....so you are asking the forum if you should? Yer gonna get all different answers, have you read the previous freaking posts? Or research 1000's of posts in other auto forums. You still won't get anything definite...do what ya wanna.
If ya wanna, change oil every 600 miles, or not.
I did a change very early, i do on all new engines (200-500 miles), just me, but I ain't gonna tell ya YOU SHOULD.

I just want to do it once at 600. Then every 5k. Yes, probably all kinds of different opinions.

[OriginalFake]

Originally Posted by dasistato

I just want to do it once at 600. Then every 5k. Yes, probably all kinds of different opinions.

I truly don't see any point in you changing it at 600 miles unless it takes you a year to put that many miles on it but it's your money.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by dasistato

I just want to do it once at 600. Then every 5k. Yes, probably all kinds of different opinions.

I have not read all the posts before yours but change the oil at 600 miles if you want.

Dec. 3 I just bought a 2023 MINI Cooper S and I have it booked next Tuesday for an oil/filter service at the local BMW dealer. The MINI has just over 600 miles on it.

Had the oil changed early -- can't recall the mileage now -- in my 2023 230i.

Had the oil changed at around 500 miles in my 2018 Hellcat. Then again at 2K miles (end of break in) and at 5K miles then every 5K miles. Or as called for by the factory) every 6 months.

And before that had the oil changed at around 600 miles in my 2018 MINI Cooper S JCW.

And other cars before and since have gotten oil changes anywhere from around 600 to 1000 miles (in most cases halfway through "break in") then at the end of break in then at 5K miles and every 5K miles after.

Sure most owners don't get the oil changed early and their vehicles don't suffer any consequences.

But I just feel better treating the engine to fresh oil before the 1st "scheduled" oil change.

[danallxt]

For those that like to rehash break in over and over, well there is a separate section specific to break in and such under tech (this is the General section) that has multiple break in threads....dunno why we need to rehash it all here also?