[KJ10]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Haven't read all the posts so maybe I'm repeating some stuff...

I followed the break in guidelines for my 230i. Likewise for my 2020 Challenger. My 2020 M-B van. My 2018 Hellcat, and so on all the way back to my first new car and before that with my new motorcycles.

Also, as is my habit I change/have changed the oil/filter early -- unless prohibited by the manual.

A pic of the oil filter housing oil from my 2008 Cayman S is below.

As one can see it is loaded with "shavings". At 750 miles from new.

Yeah, the filter catches these bits of metal but my concern is the filter getting so "dirty" a pressure bypass valve opens and routes unfiltered oil to the engine.

Another concern is at least with the Cayman engine excess oil pump pressure is bled off by routing the oil back to the intake side of the oil pump. This oil comes from the oil on the dirty side of the oil filter. I worry about the oil pump suffering premature wear from this.

Also, what you can't see is contamination the oil accumulates as the engine breaks in.

While I have been quite fortunate -- most of the time -- to have a good sales rep I don't ask him/her for break in recommendations. The owners manual spell this out in sufficient detail and it is not hard to follow the guidelines/recommendations.

Every vehicle I buy I buy with the belief I'll own the vehicle forever. I want to start the new vehicle out right and following the break in guidelines is part of this.

An early oil/filter service is another part. If I don't do it before the end of break in I would certainly do it at the end of break in.

After break in with the engine full of dirty/contaminated oil I simply could not enjoy the vehicle more fully, if you know what I mean.

Do you have anything more recent to help prove your point? I mean I don't care if anyone follows break-in or not but I've seen you post this same story/photo of your 2008 Cayman S probably 5 times on here .

I do think things have changed since 2008 in regards to how precise things are engineered in motors and manufacturers knowledge of proper break-in procedures. All good though I realize you are just trying to offer some advice.

[PP3121]

Originally Posted by SeandG42

A little step up..haha Midlife crisis or do it now...before I can't easily get in and out of a sports car.

I hear that! The back is not as limber as it used to be!

[danallxt]

Originally Posted by MmmmmM2

I do believe most M cars have a 1200 mile break in. I have not heard of M lite models having that.

The service is an oil change and to swap out the rear diff fluid.

You may not have heard of it, but it is a fact, re: 2022 M240x manual page 266.

Most all manufacturers recommend some form of break in, the miles and rpm limits suggested will vary. Again it is a RECOMMENDATION and likely has no bearing on voiding any warranty. It's your car, do what you want to.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by KJ10

Do you have anything more recent to help prove your point? I mean I don't care if anyone follows break-in or not but I've seen you post this same story/photo of your 2008 Cayman S probably 5 times on here .

I do think things have changed since 2008 in regards to how precise things are engineered in motors and manufacturers knowledge of proper break-in procedures. All good though I realize you are just trying to offer some advice.

No need to have anything more recent to make my point.

Things have not changed since 2008. Things are made as precise now as they were in 2008, 1998, or further back. They are made quicker, with a lot less manual/human labor involved, to be sure.

Too make for instance rings that perfectly fit a cylinder would add considerably to the cost of manufacturing. (Essentially it would involve a "break in" like process in the factory.)

Rings and cylinders are rather precisely finish machined to a desired diameter to pretty tight tolerances but even so a ring in a cylinder may not contact equally the entire diameter of the cylinder.

To address this, cylinders are often machined with a finish that is designed to wear the ring slightly -- the ring may have a special metal plating to help in this action -- so upon first state and shortly thereafter the ring quickly forms a pretty much gas tight yet freely sliding seal with the cylinder wall.

I have observed freshly rebuilt engines from first start and one can tell when the rings seat. It results in quite a distinct change in how the engine runs. But while the rings develop an initial break in condition they need more time, the cylinder needs more time, the piston too and other areas, need more time, for the break in to get to the point the engine is capable of making full power without risk arising from incomplete break in.

Besides the wearing in arising from deliberate metal to metal contact at the ring/cylinder wall interface break in gives sliding fit and ball/roller bearing and race surfaces and gear teeth and cam lobe and lifter faces time to shed loose material that results from the machining process. Even processes such as grinding or honing leave a surface with loose -- relatively speaking -- material.

This loose material will be shed over time. The idea is the material is shed at a rate that doesn't result in damage like scoring or pitting or some other damage that compromises these surfaces and their desired and critical ability to with oil avoid metal to metal contact.

There's more: New engines have considerable friction. Over and above the amount of friction they'll have after more run time/miles of driving. This friction and its decline can be measured on the dyno and in the field.

As the engine breaks in this friction decreases. If the engine is operated too vigorously the friction can result in localized break down of oil or even grease and surface damage occurs. In severe cases component failure can occur. A ring briefly friction welds a section of itself to the cylinder wall and breaks.

But even in less severe cases the surfaces are compromised and wear from lubrication failure arising from this occurs.

Studies have shown an aggressively broken in engine will develop max power sooner than an engine broken in less aggressively. The downside is the aggressively broken in engine then will see its max power taper off starting sooner.

Of course one can choose to follow the break in or not. However there may be a risk if one chooses to not follow break in.

It is possible the engine controller logs at least alarms that some RPM threshold has been breached, some load amount exceeded, and so on. While the factory probably wouldn't deny a warranty if any of these were logged in a relatively low number if they show up too many times this suggests a pattern of of abuse/misuse...

My advice is to follow any manufacture break in instructions/guidelines. Most owners do whether they realize it or not. Pretty much just normal driving of the law abiding kind will result in a proper break in.

But for some of us and with cars bought with their performance capabilities a factor in the decision to buy the car it is best to cool one's jets and still give the engine time to go through a break in.

[Rag9000]

It looks like the 2023 manual recommends a break in period, but not the oil change afterwords.

[LivingInSalt]

Originally Posted by Rag9000

It looks like the 2023 manual recommends a break in period, but not the oil change afterwords.

I don’t believe any non-M car has ever had a 1200 mile oil service standard/paid for/recommended by BMW

[shonseb]

https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1953951

Although it is an M car, it's still the same manufacturer telling us the car requires a break in period. I'm halfway through my break in

[KJ10]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

No need to have anything more recent to make my point.

Things have not changed since 2008. Things are made as precise now as they were in 2008, 1998, or further back. They are made quicker, with a lot less manual/human labor involved, to be sure.

Too make for instance rings that perfectly fit a cylinder would add considerably to the cost of manufacturing. (Essentially it would involve a "break in" like process in the factory.)

Rings and cylinders are rather precisely finish machined to a desired diameter to pretty tight tolerances but even so a ring in a cylinder may not contact equally the entire diameter of the cylinder.

To address this, cylinders are often machined with a finish that is designed to wear the ring slightly -- the ring may have a special metal plating to help in this action -- so upon first state and shortly thereafter the ring quickly forms a pretty much gas tight yet freely sliding seal with the cylinder wall.

I have observed freshly rebuilt engines from first start and one can tell when the rings seat. It results in quite a distinct change in how the engine runs. But while the rings develop an initial break in condition they need more time, the cylinder needs more time, the piston too and other areas, need more time, for the break in to get to the point the engine is capable of making full power without risk arising from incomplete break in.

Besides the wearing in arising from deliberate metal to metal contact at the ring/cylinder wall interface break in gives sliding fit and ball/roller bearing and race surfaces and gear teeth and cam lobe and lifter faces time to shed loose material that results from the machining process. Even processes such as grinding or honing leave a surface with loose -- relatively speaking -- material.

This loose material will be shed over time. The idea is the material is shed at a rate that doesn't result in damage like scoring or pitting or some other damage that compromises these surfaces and their desired and critical ability to with oil avoid metal to metal contact.

There's more: New engines have considerable friction. Over and above the amount of friction they'll have after more run time/miles of driving. This friction and its decline can be measured on the dyno and in the field.

As the engine breaks in this friction decreases. If the engine is operated too vigorously the friction can result in localized break down of oil or even grease and surface damage occurs. In severe cases component failure can occur. A ring briefly friction welds a section of itself to the cylinder wall and breaks.

But even in less severe cases the surfaces are compromised and wear from lubrication failure arising from this occurs.

Studies have shown an aggressively broken in engine will develop max power sooner than an engine broken in less aggressively. The downside is the aggressively broken in engine then will see its max power taper off starting sooner.

Of course one can choose to follow the break in or not. However there may be a risk if one chooses to not follow break in.

It is possible the engine controller logs at least alarms that some RPM threshold has been breached, some load amount exceeded, and so on. While the factory probably wouldn't deny a warranty if any of these were logged in a relatively low number if they show up too many times this suggests a pattern of of abuse/misuse...

My advice is to follow any manufacture break in instructions/guidelines. Most owners do whether they realize it or not. Pretty much just normal driving of the law abiding kind will result in a proper break in.

But for some of us and with cars bought with their performance capabilities a factor in the decision to buy the car it is best to cool one's jets and still give the engine time to go through a break in.

.

[Zaxer]

I did - for 99% of the time - follow the break-in. The manufacturer says it's a good idea, so I'm gonna take their advice. And the genius also reminded me of it at delivery and wrote it down on a card for me. Most of mine was done by the time I got home from PC.

Incidentally, while on the tour, we watched as each X-variant came off the line and went thru the dynometer. Clearly each engine is tested beyond the parameters of the break-in period, albeit briefly. Only after that test is the roundel whacked on the hood (literally - with a rubber mallet).

A 1,200 mile service is not required (my dealer confirmed) such as it is for full "M" models.

[KJ10]

Originally Posted by Zaxer

I did - for 99% of the time - follow the break-in. The manufacturer says it's a good idea, so I'm gonna take their advice. And the genius also reminded me of it at delivery and wrote it down on a card for me. Most of mine was done by the time I got home from PC.

Incidentally, while on the tour, we watched as each X-variant came off the line and went thru the dynometer. Clearly each engine is tested beyond the parameters of the break-in period, albeit briefly. Only after that test is the roundel whacked on the hood (literally - with a rubber mallet).

A 1,200 mile service is not required (my dealer confirmed) such as it is for full "M" models.

I could not believe how the roundel was put on when I was at the factory. They really hit the car, it's not gentle.

[Zaxer]

Originally Posted by KJ10

I could not believe how the roundel was put on when I was at the factory. They really hit the car, it's not gentle.

Yeah - the technician was just short of a full wind-up! It was pretty funny...

[MmmmmM2]

Originally Posted by danallxt

You may not have heard of it, but it is a fact, re: 2022 M240x manual page 266.

Most all manufacturers recommend some form of break in, the miles and rpm limits suggested will vary. Again it is a RECOMMENDATION and likely has no bearing on voiding any warranty. It's your car, do what you want to.

Silly me, I meant "break in service" at 1,200 miles.

As in, you actually have to bring it to the dealer for them to do the service.

[oncityce]

It probably will be my last fuel fleet . I will be gentle in the first 1500 miles and oil change before 5K miles . I don't believe the break in processing is really work but I probably will keep it for long.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by KJ10

.

Hahaha.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by Zaxer

I did - for 99% of the time - follow the break-in. The manufacturer says it's a good idea, so I'm gonna take their advice. And the genius also reminded me of it at delivery and wrote it down on a card for me. Most of mine was done by the time I got home from PC.

Incidentally, while on the tour, we watched as each X-variant came off the line and went thru the dynometer. Clearly each engine is tested beyond the parameters of the break-in period, albeit briefly. Only after that test is the roundel whacked on the hood (literally - with a rubber mallet).

A 1,200 mile service is not required (my dealer confirmed) such as it is for full "M" models.

A brief time on a chassis dyno is not a break in. The engine is not stressed any just spinning the dyno rollers.

The real break in takes varying RPMs and loads over time.

Funny about the roundel. I have seen videos of other brands of cars being assembled and the application of decals and other cosmetic items is done with an almost sensual touch. Maybe that's for the camera? After the film crew leaves out comes the rubber mallet.

[iroc86]

Most of this thread discusses limiting engine RPM and high-load situations during the break-in period. I'm curious about fixed-load operation, particularly if one were to purchase a new car a few hundred miles out of state and drive it home.

I've built several engines over the years, mostly older domestic stuff with loose tolerances and heavy-weight oils compared to modern cars, and the prevailing wisdom for break-in has always been about avoiding sustained RPMs, not necessarily wide open throttle operation. The early fluid change interval always applied, of course, to remove any debris generated during the break-in period.

Some performance engine builders argue that the best thing you can do for a new engine is to drive it relatively hard, which subjects the components to varying loads and ensures the moving parts wear together more completely. I recall reading about some tests, probably a few decades ago now, where an engine broken in this way produced more power because it was a tighter assembly overall compared to an engine that was babied for its first thousand miles. Of course, no OEM is going to tell the general public to go out and thrash a new engine, and this test was more from a racing/performance standpoint.

How do you all feel about picking up a new car and then immediately driving it for several hours just sitting at a fixed RPM on the highway?

[rons e92]

Man you guys obsess over this.

I took delivery, kept it under 100mph (but into the 90s a few times) for the first 1,000 miles and tried to keep it under 4k rpm, but I definitely went over at least 3 times on accident.

Then I showed up at a race track with just over 1,000 miles and took the car roll racing up to over 130mph and bringing engine speed up near redline in multiple gears. I did 5 runs and drove the car home.

I took it to the dealer after the trip and had an oil change, they said the oil was fine. Car has been rock solid and I just cracked 6,000 miles.

Drive your car how you want it.

[Cwatt79]

Originally Posted by iroc86

How do you all feel about picking up a new car and then immediately driving it for several hours just sitting at a fixed RPM on the highway?

FWIW, my CA told me to avoid constant speeds, and especially cruise control, during the break-in period. This is consistent with what I've experienced with other new cars, however this is the longest break-in period of any vehicle I've owned. This is my first German car.

[danallxt]

My New Years wish is that this break-in thread dies.
Hey it's been rehashed over and over and over in countless forums.
You can find any position/viewpoint etc to support your previously held assumptions.
If you have no assumptions you can wade thru countless "pseudo authoritative opinions", or just follow the freakin manual recommendations.
As you can see....this is my happy mood day.

[PNTDG42]

Originally Posted by danallxt

My New Years wish is that this break-in thread dies.
Hey it's been rehashed over and over and over in countless forums.
You can find any position/viewpoint etc to support your previously held assumptions.
If you have no assumptions you can wade thru countless "pseudo authoritative opinions", or just follow the freakin manual recommendations.
As you can see....this is my happy mood day.

I’ve been in auto forums since before they started and were email based. The break-in discussion is eternal and there is no conclusion.

I have my own thoughts; it doesn’t matter. I’ve been in the automotive lifestyle for over 20 years. Never seen anyone lose an engine due to break in procedure. Nobody has ever won a race because of it, and nobody ever lost a race because of it. Never seen a warranty claim denied because of if. If there is some near negligibale difference, 99% of new car buyers will have replaced the car long before it mattered.

I believe the OEM still recommend it for 2 reasons only;

A; simply to encourage reasonable driving while you get used to your new car before you crash it, and they know if they straight out worded it that way, nobody would listen.

B; if the oil becomes contaminated quickly with debris introduced during production or assembly, you are reducing the likeliness of such debris circulating the oil pump rotors or possibly making it into the engine through an open oil filter internal pressure relief, by driving it easy. Since the oil pump is crankshaft driven, less average RPM means less oil circulation and less oil pressure that might open the filters internal valve.

In custom engine building; it’s pretty typical to change the oil after initial warm up to remove the bulk of potential contaminants, and then again after maybe a hour of driving around and looking for any leaks or issues to address. Then it’s straight to the dyno for full power tuning.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by iroc86

Most of this thread discusses limiting engine RPM and high-load situations during the break-in period. I'm curious about fixed-load operation, particularly if one were to purchase a new car a few hundred miles out of state and drive it home.

I've built several engines over the years, mostly older domestic stuff with loose tolerances and heavy-weight oils compared to modern cars, and the prevailing wisdom for break-in has always been about avoiding sustained RPMs, not necessarily wide open throttle operation. The early fluid change interval always applied, of course, to remove any debris generated during the break-in period.

Some performance engine builders argue that the best thing you can do for a new engine is to drive it relatively hard, which subjects the components to varying loads and ensures the moving parts wear together more completely. I recall reading about some tests, probably a few decades ago now, where an engine broken in this way produced more power because it was a tighter assembly overall compared to an engine that was babied for its first thousand miles. Of course, no OEM is going to tell the general public to go out and thrash a new engine, and this test was more from a racing/performance standpoint.

How do you all feel about picking up a new car and then immediately driving it for several hours just sitting at a fixed RPM on the highway?

Not in favor of driving a new car and then subjecting it to several hours at a steady RPM. That is generally cautioned against by the factory.

Just bought a new car (MINI Cooper S) last Saturday about 190 miles away from home. It was pretty much a straight shot via freeway from the dealer (in Merriam KS) to Bentonville AR near where I live.

Was not hard to vary RPMs via the throttle or by up shifting for several miles then downshifting. Or lift off the throttle and when the car had slowed down accelerate the car back up to speed. Fortunately traffic was not heavy.

But kind of funny when I lived in northern CA I bought a new MINI JCW in Sacramento and drove it from there to south of Modesto (about 90 miles) following my sister who was driving my Challenger home for me.

On that drive varying degrees of traffic congestion forced me to vary engine speed even if I didn't want to. OH, and after I was sure my sister made it home ok I then turned the car towards my home which was another 60 miles west in the Dublin, Pleasanton, Livermore area.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by PNTDG42

I’ve been in auto forums since before they started and were email based. The break-in discussion is eternal and there is no conclusion.

I have my own thoughts; it doesn’t matter. I’ve been in the automotive lifestyle for over 20 years. Never seen anyone lose an engine due to break in procedure. Nobody has ever won a race because of it, and nobody ever lost a race because of it. Never seen a warranty claim denied because of if. If there is some near negligibale difference, 99% of new car buyers will have replaced the car long before it mattered.

I believe the OEM still recommend it for 2 reasons only;

A; simply to encourage reasonable driving while you get used to your new car before you crash it, and they know if they straight out worded it that way, nobody would listen.

B; if the oil becomes contaminated quickly with debris introduced during production or assembly, you are reducing the likeliness of such debris circulating the oil pump rotors or possibly making it into the engine through an open oil filter internal pressure relief, by driving it easy. Since the oil pump is crankshaft driven, less average RPM means less oil circulation and less oil pressure that might open the filters internal valve.

In custom engine building; it’s pretty typical to change the oil after initial warm up to remove the bulk of potential contaminants, and then again after maybe a hour of driving around and looking for any leaks or issues to address. Then it’s straight to the dyno for full power tuning.

In engine building if the goal is for racing the idea is to get the engine making max power ASAP. There is no time for a lengthy break in.

But when I rebuilt engines for the street as I had been taught I started the engine then ran it at high RPMs (I think around 3K) for around 15 minutes or so. This was to mainly give the cam and lifters time to adapt to one another and the high RPMs helped insure sufficient oiling. This was with OHV engines. But I did this when I rebuilt an OHC engine, too.

Then shut off the engine drain the oil -- which was *not* break in oil but the same oil the engine would be filled with, oil change after oil change, the rest of its service life -- and fill with fresh oil and install a new filter. Then just drive the car. But this was a street car so the typical usage was pretty much in line with what was considered good engine break in usage.