01-18-2023, 09:38 AM | #67 | |
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It is hard to "fight" the need for speed but considering the impressive deployment of speed traps in my area, I have been well disciplined to use my cruise control (cc) almost all the time (MT has no adaptive cc when I follow traffic I cannot). I set to the exact speed limit in city limit (+4 winter setup and +3 summer setup to compensate optimistic public readers) and a bit more over in county zone (no speed camera) (+15 winter and +14 summer). I get the fun w/ the MT getting there even when driving "slow" and ensuring I am in the correct gear w/ proper rev-matching downshifts and double clutch when skipping gears. I typically don't rush my shifts and enjoy every single shifts. I currently get my "thrill" using my sim racing setup. Not quite like the real thing but fun enough for the price and safety.
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2023 G87 ///M2 (production began Jul 4th 2023) 2008 E90 335i | Silver Grey | Terra | Piano Black | 6MT | ZSP | ZKO | ZAT | ZKI | ZPL | ZKL | |
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01-18-2023, 09:42 AM | #68 |
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I am lucky w/ my commute. No traffic and nice country roads through a mix of farm land and wealthy bigger lots residential zone. No stop-and-go freeway parking lots.
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01-18-2023, 11:22 AM | #69 | |
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01-18-2023, 06:32 PM | #70 |
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The thing about manual vs auto on track for me is; what's the extra three seconds going to get you? A trophy? It's like running a 4hr marathon and then spending 50% more time training to get to 3:30. It just doesn't make sense to invest that kind of effort IMO. Better to keep the manual and enjoy the experience since you won't get anything for your heroism anyway.
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01-18-2023, 07:00 PM | #71 | |
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01-18-2023, 07:02 PM | #72 |
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01-18-2023, 07:09 PM | #73 |
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Well, whether a prize is handed out or not, you would have to win to get a prize. While you are more than entitled to your opinion, you wont win many races drag racing with a manual. There is a reason dragstrips are filled with mainly AT cars. |
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01-18-2023, 07:18 PM | #74 |
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If you're not picking up what I'm putting down it's no biggie - the journey is more fun than than arriving at the destination. There is no "win". All you did was get from A to B .5sec slower. Who cares haha.
This is coming from someone who watches racing almost every day of his life. I just believe you have to have screws loose to care that much. |
01-18-2023, 07:29 PM | #75 | |
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01-18-2023, 07:34 PM | #76 | |
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Last edited by M_Power Rob; 01-18-2023 at 09:00 PM.. |
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01-18-2023, 08:00 PM | #77 | |
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This is how I feel. These cars are so dang fast that in an AT to enjoy it you have to drive extremely fast, with a m/t it's solely for fun and I'm willing to be slower(but feel faster). My m/t 72 super beetle is actually more fun than my x3 m40i, because it is engaging. Even if I were to track my car, it would solely be for the fun of doing so, and buying my car with a manual transmission I know I will have slightly slower times.... But 100% more fun. If someone doesn't enjoy the "work" of going through the gears than the simple argument of "it's faster and more efficient" is very effective. I will admit all day that the m2 is slower than a Tesla plaid s or what ever it's called, but for ME it's more FUN. |
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01-18-2023, 08:03 PM | #78 | |
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Unless the prize is the cost of the a/t car than it's not worth it. The prize of the fun is what I would aiming for. |
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01-18-2023, 08:05 PM | #79 | |
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01-22-2023, 09:09 AM | #80 |
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I think, before the thread wilts and dies, that from all the comments here that choosing an AT or MT is almost like choosing a favorite color. No one can really make the argument that Red is better than Blue; that debate is crazy (especially cuz Blue is far better!). I think the same here, some guys like rowing gears, others like not to and focus on other dynamic aspects of driving on the track or street. There's no argument, in this perspective, against either...just like a color choice.
Though, it is nothing like the color argument when we talk dynamics and speed...but in the end, that is still part of the transmission choice. I will say, unequivocally, that choosing AT over an MT car does NOT pull one's enthusiast credentials. So tired of hearing that "For a real driver enthusiast, a manual transmission is available" by every car journalist. I keep pointing to the vast number of race series that don't use MTs any more...and I do consider racers enthusiasts. A good discussion! |
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01-22-2023, 10:13 AM | #81 | |
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Journalists never enter MY decision matrix on what to buy or equip a car I am buying. They can go funk right off. Most NEVER ever own anything they test to begin with. A 1/2 day with one car does NOT MAKE one an EXPERT. Many so called 'expert' YouTube paid shills have no real experience other than..........well they drove a car. The motoring press are not at all much better qualified either. |
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01-22-2023, 10:25 AM | #82 | |
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01-22-2023, 10:55 AM | #83 |
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I agree with both points...journalists over stating it (some without any foundation), and MT guys lament the loss of MTs.
Everyone knows MTs are going away. Everyone knows why. If I were an MT guy, I'd be upset; but I'm not, I just understand... I cannot stand how heavy cars have gotten. I cannot stand that every sports car has to have a freaking moonroof and power heated seats (and more). Fact is, that's happening because most love moonroofs and a warm ass in the winter-time. I mean, how is that new M2 almost as heavy as an M4...whaaaat? Cars are changing and definitely not for those of us who are particular about our cars. But I've relished in this fact. All four-wheeled vehicles experience the same physics. Hell, a school bus and a 911 will have the same physical forces acting on them and driving them near the limit is pretty much the same challenge...one's just faster. I can have as much fun in an M240, Camry, van, or my track car. So, that new pig of an M2 will be one fun car to drive hard. Learning THAT specific car will be fun and it all helps me get over that it isn't exactly what I want it to be (which is about a quarter-ton lighter!). That song by Crosby, Stills, Nash..."Love The One You're With" always rings true for me. I don't know if this'll work for the MT guys in an AT car, but it works for me. Pick what's best for me, it won't be perfect, but I'll squeeze all the fun out of it anyway. |
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01-22-2023, 11:02 AM | #84 | ||
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If that car would be available only with a MT, they might not sell enough to justifying making it in the first place.
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01-22-2023, 11:49 AM | #85 |
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Transmission choice
I've always had MTs for my DD/fun cars, autos for my SUVs. My last 3 M3/4 coupes are manuals, as will be this one. I'll be 75 when I get it but as long as both legs keep working...!
https://tmgps.org/
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01-22-2023, 12:17 PM | #86 | |
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Not arguing that lighter would be better... But where the hell did this idea come from that the m2 is lighter than the m4? F87 m2 was 1495kg (3296lbs) vs the F82 M4 was 1497kg (3300lbs), a whole 2kg (4lbs) lighter lol. Meanwhile for the comps: F87 m2c was 1550kg (3417lbs) and the F82 m4c was 1515kg (3340lbs), so the m2 was actually 35kg (77lbs) heavier! (All weight figures from the direct press releases on press.bmwgroup.com) Last edited by CodeSlinger; 01-22-2023 at 12:43 PM.. |
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01-22-2023, 01:13 PM | #88 | |
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2023 M2 Weight Manual: 1700kg Auto: 1725kg 2021 M4 Weight Manual: 1700kg 2021 M4 Comp Weight Auto: 1725kg Auto AWD: 1775kg M3/M4 Specs M2 Specs |
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