12-20-2023, 11:10 AM | #89 | |
Brigadier General
3714
Rep 3,003
Posts |
Quote:
No, no direct knowledge on oil cooler damage (based on the G's under car location but the B9 S5 intercooler damage is directly in line with the G87 radiator concerns (and as I said, the Audi has a honeycomb grill, albeit plastic material, see below for stock photo for reference). This lack of protection is on all of the RS models and I believe a number of the S models. Unfortunately, cars are not designed to protect from large rocks or debris (except maybe the electric cars/SUVs without grills...then again they dont have ICEs which is another story/debate I am not getting into with thebtree huggers). |
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-20-2023, 11:27 AM | #90 | |
Lieutenant
380
Rep 424
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-20-2023, 11:39 AM | #91 | |
Private First Class
299
Rep 138
Posts |
Quote:
1.) Will you not install a gaurd after knowing this can happen to these cars? If your answer is No, then I commend your bravery that you are willing to go through this ordeal rather than protecting it from future possibility of the damage with $500 part. If your answer is Yes. Then you agree BMW has a design gap and they left such a crucial component blatantly exposed and it requires an aftermarket part to correct their design 2.) If this is bad luck and happens primarily because of debri on road, does it also affect other makes similarly? The answer can be yes if the object was a large enough, but in my case this one is literally smaller than 1/8", this just tells me it is just a matter of time thes unprotected cars are hit by this issue leading to similar damage. Also if this is such a rare phenomenon , I expect BMW to step up and own the short coming in their design and make this right. |
|
Appreciate
1
two_three_two579.50 |
12-20-2023, 11:40 AM | #92 |
Captain
615
Rep 796
Posts |
XPS: Any update with BMW and your insurance company? You should demand a new car based on everything you have gone through.
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-20-2023, 11:45 AM | #93 |
Private First Class
299
Rep 138
Posts |
No it doesn't. Like I mentioned above the underbody literally doesn't have a scratch, the car has a lot of salt dried up from the road and the reflection on the photo makes it look like it is damaged, but it is not. The only damage is in the oil cooler
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-20-2023, 11:48 AM | #94 |
Private First Class
299
Rep 138
Posts |
The dealer is supposed to call me to give an update and next steps. Just waiting on them to call. I already know what they are going to say but I need the statement before I escalate it to BMW NA before I go the insurance route.
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-20-2023, 11:51 AM | #95 |
Colonel
2902
Rep 2,771
Posts
Drives: 2020 M4 ZCP / 2023 X3 M40i
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Northern VA
|
This oil cooler design started with F8x and S55 engines since 2015. S58 and B58 with the "Cooling and High Performance Tire Package" all have the same flaw. Quite a few people with F8x have had the same issue if you do a search. Doubtful BMW is going to do anything when they've known about this almost 9 years.
|
Appreciate
3
|
12-20-2023, 11:54 AM | #96 | |
Brigadier General
3714
Rep 3,003
Posts |
Quote:
For now, I am not adding anything. I am discussing with my builder and if we come up with something that will stop a larger object and not adversely affect the cooler, then that is a different story. To add, is it a design flaw, I wouldn't call it that (to me, if you do, you are for the most part stating BMW doesn't kniw what they are doing (no, this is nit about money cause that would be pennies to add if the felt it was required)). I would be curious to know how many G80/82/87 cars have had oil coolers damaged/destroyed under these circumstances. As far as size of the debris, there is no way that damage was from a 1/8" rock or similar sized piece of debris. That is from something much larger/heavier that was run over. I would doubt, or be surprised, if BMW were to cover it. There was not a part failure or defective cooler, it was damage caused by another careless driver (notbsecuring debris that may have flown off their vehicle), mother nature (a rogue rock), ir even municipal workers for their shotty work and not cleaning up after road repairs or lack of general road upkeep. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-20-2023, 11:56 AM | #97 | |
Brigadier General
3714
Rep 3,003
Posts |
Quote:
Really, similar to windshield damage from flying debris. Its most likely going to be an insurance claim (if so, you may want to make a police report for damage caused by road debris). |
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-20-2023, 11:59 AM | #98 | |
this is the way
18302
Rep 8,544
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-20-2023, 12:05 PM | #99 |
Private First Class
299
Rep 138
Posts |
Do you file police report for wind shield damage? Never heard of it. Also how do I tell if it was debri on the road or if some thing flew from somewhere? Or of the oil cooler punctured itself due to oil pressure.
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-20-2023, 12:07 PM | #100 | |
Major
1702
Rep 1,379
Posts
Drives: 2020 X3MC
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: MA
|
Quote:
Considering the placement of that radiator, you have to be really unlucky for a rock to bounce up exactly at the right time AND be big enough to cause some real damage. Sucks this happened to you, but I don’t think I’d call it a design flaw. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-20-2023, 12:14 PM | #101 | |
this is the way
18302
Rep 8,544
Posts |
Quote:
Radiators and heat exchangers are fragile. They are literally thin pipes, typically aluminum, surrounded by thin fins to help dissipate heat. It's doesn't take much to put a dent in them much less puncture them. There's no way to determine the exact size of the object that caused the damage simply by looking at the size of the hole. Small rocks are able to cause big rock chips in your paint and even crack windshields depending on the angle they strike. Now place a fragile oil cooler underneath the car where the most road debris is and have it exposed. What could possibly go wrong? |
|
Appreciate
2
Ointment044053.50 Ronin76827.00 |
12-20-2023, 12:15 PM | #102 |
Car Geek
3639
Rep 3,602
Posts |
I wouldn't be surprised if a fairly large piece of debris in a road construction zone would be the cause of the damage. It is highly unlikely that 2 small rocks at the same time caused the two points of damage and the bent fins just in front of it. I would think the debris would be a single piece that is at least as big as the distance between the bent oil cooler tube and the indent where the oil seems to have leaked from, at least 30mm / 1 1/4" across.
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-20-2023, 12:27 PM | #103 | |
Captain
1262
Rep 884
Posts |
Quote:
As the chief engineer of Subaru said about a lack of increase in hp for the WRX-STi a few years ago - why increase power, the after market will take care of that! Thats the makers mentality. They know this will happen and it could be catastrophic of course. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-20-2023, 12:29 PM | #104 | |
Brigadier General
3714
Rep 3,003
Posts |
Quote:
I was makingba sort of comparison to the windshield (in Florida, its covered as a no fault claim). For other damage for riad debris, if making a claim it will most likely fall under collision. If you just make the claim as is, it will show as "your fault" single car accident, worst kind if claim. I do have direct experience in this...a fewbyears ago, wife was driving a two month old car down a highway in S Florida. A piece of pipe flew off a wirk truck in front of her. She swerved to avoid the direct damage and to not hit the car to her right, she clipped the median curb. Entire fro b t drivers suspension was trashed. Close to $5k in parts and labor to make the repair. We made a claim on our insurance (which we for the following reason no longer use this company), said nothing and just wrote up the claim and paid less our deductible. Next renewal period, whammy! Major premium increase. When I called to complain, the firat this they said was did you get a police report? I said no, why would I have? They said the report to show that it was caused by road debris and not reckless/careless driving. They said without a report, nothing they could do. Dont know if it is true in your State or other, but road debris is a major problem in Florida so I am sure that had/has something to do with it. In your case, you dont know the type of debris but should be abke to ascertain the area and just identify it as road debris. Worst case, if it doesnt help with your insurance, it was only some time out of your day to file the report. |
|
Appreciate
1
Ointment044053.50 |
12-20-2023, 12:33 PM | #105 | |
Private First Class
299
Rep 138
Posts |
Quote:
I will give an example with how my thought goes in this matter - What if the windshield had a 1/2" x 1/2" hole with brittle plastic covering right in front of drivers face and the chance of getting hit by a debri is minimal and the chance the debri killing the driver is even less, would you still argue this is not a design flaw because it is not common? Here we are talking about $45k replacement that is going to bother my insurance premiums for a long time. Note that I have not had a single claims until now, My point is the oil cooler is weak point of the engine left to luck of the owner, the issue is the lack of any protection in the design. I know the owner is the loser here, and the odds are not in favor. But this is a design flaw and negligence on bmws part. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-20-2023, 12:33 PM | #106 | |
Major
1702
Rep 1,379
Posts
Drives: 2020 X3MC
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: MA
|
Quote:
A parralel radiator is a lot less vulnerable than a perpendicular one. Radiators need access to ambient, you can’t cover them up without negative effects. You also assume this was a rock. It might have been a piece of steel that would have ripped through any screen in place. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-20-2023, 12:39 PM | #107 | |
Car Geek
3639
Rep 3,602
Posts |
Quote:
Doesn't mean to say extra protection isn't advisable, but this damage does not seem consistent with just a small rock from off the road surface. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
12-20-2023, 12:41 PM | #108 | |
Private First Class
299
Rep 138
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
1
aerobod3638.50 |
12-20-2023, 12:44 PM | #109 | |||
this is the way
18302
Rep 8,544
Posts |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
#DesignFlaw |
|||
12-20-2023, 12:52 PM | #110 | |
Private First Class
299
Rep 138
Posts |
Quote:
I actually went back to trace out, I see a huge puddle of oil at the place where I was parked to wait for tow truck, i would say 4x4 ft. And the dealer showed me about a 1-1.5quart they drained out from the engine. So I think due to the size of the puncture, and the engine running the oil must have squirted out 3-4qt before the engine was turned off. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|