N54 vs B58

SM335i · 05-02-2016, 03:28 PM

http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...1213066&page=4

is this it? an engine that is better than the N54?
is it the real successor? is it time to dump the N54 in favor for the B58?

B58 stock turbo: 453 WHP
power mods:
- JB4
- BMS intake
- BMS B58 water/meth kit.
- Fuel 93 octane and meth mixture ~80%.

N54 stock turbo: 502 WHP
power mods:
- MMP turbo intakes
- JB4 custom tuning backend
- fuel it stage 2 LPFP
- dual meth injection
- DPs
- Big Tom intercooler
- TFT charge pipe
- custom 3" intercooler up pipe
- NGK .022" gapped spark plugs

Also the new 8-speed auto tranny is very resilient and fast...

mike@x-ph.com · 05-02-2016, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SM335i

http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...1213066&page=4

is this it? an engine that is better than the N54?
is it the real successor? is it time to dump the N54 in favor for the B58?

B58 stock turbo: 453 WHP
power mods:
- JB4
- BMS intake
- BMS B58 water/meth kit.
- Fuel 93 octane and meth mixture ~80%.

N54 stock turbo: 502 WHP
power mods:
- MMP turbo intakes
- JB4 custom tuning backend
- fuel it stage 2 LPFP
- dual meth injection
- DPs
- Big Tom intercooler
- TFT charge pipe
- custom 3" intercooler up pipe
- NGK .022" gapped spark plugs

Also the new 8-speed auto tranny is very resilient and fast...

the 340 is the upgraded 335 and it has been 10 years so yea its about time BMW release an engine as good as the N54 (power wise)

SM335i · 05-02-2016, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

the 340 is the upgraded 335 and it has been 10 years so yea its about time BMW release an engine as good as the N54 (power wise)

I know that B58 has a better intercooler and overall engine cooling, which allows it to make more efficient power. I'm not sure if I missed it, but is the B58 closed deck?

mike@x-ph.com · 05-02-2016, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SM335i

I know that B58 has a better intercooler and overall engine cooling, which allows it to make more efficient power. I'm not sure if I missed it, but is the B58 closed deck?

Yes it is a closed deck

LMB335IS · 05-02-2016, 04:04 PM

You have to run Meth to break 400whp, correct? I remember Terry saying somewhere that the factory fueling is capped at right around 400 whp and the only way around it is TBI, PI, Meth, etc. But I could be talking out my ass so please correct me if I'm wrong.

135Pats · 05-02-2016, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LMB335IS

You have to run Meth to break 400whp, correct? I remember Terry saying somewhere that the factory fueling is capped at right around 400 whp and the only way around it is TBI, PI, Meth, etc. But I could be talking out my ass so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, there are major hard limits to what the factory car will supply fuel-wise. Until tuning gets WAY further down the line, no one is going to be making big power on these motors without

1. Huge, unsafe amounts of meth
2. Very aggressive tuning (with a piggyback that is still quite limited in terms of what it can control on this motor)
3. A complete standalone

LMB335IS · 05-02-2016, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 135Pats

Yes, there are major hard limits to what the factory car will supply fuel-wise. Until tuning gets WAY further down the line, no one is going to be making big power on these motors without

1. Huge, unsafe amounts of meth
2. Very aggressive tuning (with a piggyback that is still quite limited in terms of what it can control on this motor)
3. A complete standalone

dreyo27 · 05-02-2016, 04:27 PM

Stock turbos, the B58 is better. However once you start upgrading the turbo, even though it's a closed deck block, it doesn't have the forged international components. It's not even sleeved. Meaning I don't think it will hold up well at 600whp+ power levels. On top of that because it's a closed deck the cylinder walls aremy as well cooled as the N54 and that will only expedite the failure.

GreaseMonkey · 05-02-2016, 04:31 PM

The B58 has not bested the N54. As we all know, the N54 is the german equivalent of the 2JZ. IF, and I do mean IF the B58 is better than the N54, by transitive property the B58 is then better than the 2JZ. Obviously that is an impossibility and we should do our best to prevent any further misinformation from spreading.

TBN54 · 05-02-2016, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreaseMonkey

The B58 has not bested the N54. As we all know, the N54 is the german equivalent of the 2JZ. IF, and I do mean IF the B58 is better than the N54, by transitive property the B58 is then better than the 2JZ. Obviously that is an impossibility and we should do our best to prevent any further misinformation from spreading.

God has spoken.

/thread

theweebabySeamus · 05-02-2016, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreaseMonkey

The B58 has not bested the N54. As we all know, the N54 is the german equivalent of the 2JZ. IF, and I do mean IF the B58 is better than the N54, by transitive property the B58 is then better than the 2JZ. Obviously that is an impossibility and we should do our best to prevent any further misinformation from spreading.

Equivalent? Hardly. Better technology, sure, but not as durable or able to hold as much power.

SM335i · 05-02-2016, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LMB335IS

You have to run Meth to break 400whp, correct? I remember Terry saying somewhere that the factory fueling is capped at right around 400 whp and the only way around it is TBI, PI, Meth, etc. But I could be talking out my ass so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, on the B58, Meth was need at *80% to create that power.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 135Pats

Yes, there are major hard limits to what the factory car will supply fuel-wise. Until tuning gets WAY further down the line, no one is going to be making big power on these motors without

1. Huge, unsafe amounts of meth
2. Very aggressive tuning (with a piggyback that is still quite limited in terms of what it can control on this motor)
3. A complete standalone

Are you talking about the B58? Because the N54 also needs meth on stockers to achieve anything close to 500 whp, correct?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreyo27

Stock turbos, the B58 is better. However once you start upgrading the turbo, even though it's a closed deck block, it doesn't have the forged international components. It's not even sleeved. Meaning I don't think it will hold up well at 600whp+ power levels. On top of that because it's a closed deck the cylinder walls aremy as well cooled as the N54 and that will only expedite the failure.

The N54 only had a forged crank correct?

Rat_House · 05-02-2016, 05:35 PM

I would love for it to be true, n54 engine prices would come down making it a delicious engine swap candidate like RB's and JZ's

TrollToll · 05-02-2016, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreyo27

Stock turbos, the B58 is better. However once you start upgrading the turbo, even though it's a closed deck block, it doesn't have the forged international components. It's not even sleeved. Meaning I don't think it will hold up well at 600whp+ power levels. On top of that because it's a closed deck the cylinder walls aremy as well cooled as the N54 and that will only expedite the failure.

What do you mean it's bot sleeved? Are you saying that the cylinder walls are bare aluminum? That doesn't sound right.

Edit: I read that it has an alloy coating. I'd be scared of running aluminum walls at high power levels.

631twentyeighteye · 05-02-2016, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yournamehere90

What do you mean it's bot sleeved? Are you saying that the cylinder walls are bare aluminum? That doesn't sound right.

Nikasil coating on the cylinder walls. n52 also had this. Allows for less friction for a quicker revving engine at the cost of cylinder strength.

TrollToll · 05-02-2016, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 631twentyeighteye

Nikasil coating on the cylinder walls. n52 also had this. Allows for less friction for a quicker revving engine at the cost of cylinder strength.

I wonder if they could use coated liners. Not that it matters, mostly just daydreaming.

dreyo27 · 05-02-2016, 07:05 PM

Ok saying that the N54 is german 2jz is wrong as the 2JZ-GTE is actually German LOL.

Yes its been proven that crank rods and pistons are forged as well as the cylinder liners as well if i remember correctly.
Thats why we don't have to have a built engine to get 900 crank HP.

Yournamehere90 ment Not sleeved. meaning assuming the pistons/rods hold up, you would still have to sleeve the block on the B58...

Just think back to the Horsepowerfreaks stage 3 kit for the S54.

Kevinl · 05-02-2016, 08:14 PM

N55, S55, B58 none of them have dethroned the king

#N54 4Life

924er · 05-02-2016, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SM335i

Quote:

Originally Posted by LMB335IS

You have to run Meth to break 400whp, correct? I remember Terry saying somewhere that the factory fueling is capped at right around 400 whp and the only way around it is TBI, PI, Meth, etc. But I could be talking out my ass so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, on the B58, Meth was need at *80% to create that power.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 135Pats

Yes, there are major hard limits to what the factory car will supply fuel-wise. Until tuning gets WAY further down the line, no one is going to be making big power on these motors without

1. Huge, unsafe amounts of meth
2. Very aggressive tuning (with a piggyback that is still quite limited in terms of what it can control on this motor)
3. A complete standalone

Are you talking about the B58? Because the N54 also needs meth on stockers to achieve anything close to 500 whp, correct?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreyo27

Stock turbos, the B58 is better. However once you start upgrading the turbo, even though it's a closed deck block, it doesn't have the forged international components. It's not even sleeved. Meaning I don't think it will hold up well at 600whp+ power levels. On top of that because it's a closed deck the cylinder walls aremy as well cooled as the N54 and that will only expedite the failure.

The N54 only had a forged crank correct?

There are a few threads in this forum showing n54s with no meth just FBO e85 mix with inlets that are hitting over 500whp

I believe the crank is forged but whatever the internals are made up is pretty damn durable to be holding up 750whp like what most people are doing

dreyo27 · 05-02-2016, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevinl

N55, S55, B58 none of them have dethroned the king

#N54 4Life

S55 did, but its in a different price bracket lol

Kevinl · 05-02-2016, 08:34 PM

Is there a s55 over 800hp?

I thought they were in the 600's

SM335i · 05-02-2016, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevinl

N55, S55, B58 none of them have dethroned the king

#N54 4Life

Not even the S55?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 924er

There are a few threads in this forum showing n54s with no meth just FBO e85 mix with inlets that are hitting over 500whp

I believe the crank is forged but whatever the internals are made up is pretty damn durable to be holding up 750whp like what most people are doing

True, I can't believe the N54 still hasn't gotten the public recognition that it deserves. I feel like there are many things that still need to be upgraded. Look at the GTR, the market has every bolt for upgrade for those things

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreyo27

S55 did, but its in a different price bracket lol

S55 coupled to the amazing cooling and Carbon driveshaft and all the other bells and whistles that it has is what makes it a king..

05-02-2016, 03:28 PM	#1
SM335i Banned 106 Rep 1,059 Posts Drives: Car Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Location iTrader: (0)	N54 vs B58 http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...1213066&page=4 is this it? an engine that is better than the N54? is it the real successor? is it time to dump the N54 in favor for the B58? B58 stock turbo: 453 WHP power mods: - JB4 - BMS intake - BMS B58 water/meth kit. - Fuel 93 octane and meth mixture ~80%. N54 stock turbo: 502 WHP power mods: - MMP turbo intakes - JB4 custom tuning backend - fuel it stage 2 LPFP - dual meth injection - DPs - Big Tom intercooler - TFT charge pipe - custom 3" intercooler up pipe - NGK .022" gapped spark plugs Also the new 8-speed auto tranny is very resilient and fast...
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05-02-2016, 04:04 PM	#5
LMB335IS Sua Sponte 1311 Rep 2,856 Posts Drives: 2013 LMB 335is Join Date: May 2008 Location: FOB FL iTrader: (21) Garage List 2013 BMW 335is [8.84]	You have to run Meth to break 400whp, correct? I remember Terry saying somewhere that the factory fueling is capped at right around 400 whp and the only way around it is TBI, PI, Meth, etc. But I could be talking out my ass so please correct me if I'm wrong. __________________ 335is/DCT-M3 GTS software-M3 drivetrain-M3 GWS-KOMBI-DSC-SZL/MHD/BQ Tuning IG@ClustersandCoding
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05-02-2016, 04:27 PM	#8
dreyo27 First Lieutenant 93 Rep 322 Posts Drives: 2007 335i e92 Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Sacramento CA iTrader: (3)	Stock turbos, the B58 is better. However once you start upgrading the turbo, even though it's a closed deck block, it doesn't have the forged international components. It's not even sleeved. Meaning I don't think it will hold up well at 600whp+ power levels. On top of that because it's a closed deck the cylinder walls aremy as well cooled as the N54 and that will only expedite the failure.
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05-02-2016, 04:31 PM	#9
GreaseMonkey Second Lieutenant 54 Rep 258 Posts Drives: '09 335i xDrive Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: CT iTrader: (4)	The B58 has not bested the N54. As we all know, the N54 is the german equivalent of the 2JZ. IF, and I do mean IF the B58 is better than the N54, by transitive property the B58 is then better than the 2JZ. Obviously that is an impossibility and we should do our best to prevent any further misinformation from spreading. __________________ His: '21 Kia Telluride SX Hers::'19 Lexus Ux250h F-sport His: '67 Jacobsen Tractor Formerly His:'09 335 xdrive
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05-02-2016, 05:35 PM	#13
Rat_House First Lieutenant 227 Rep 372 Posts Drives: M2 Comp, Gated R8, DatsunZ, mk Join Date: May 2013 Location: Stamford, CT iTrader: (2)	I would love for it to be true, n54 engine prices would come down making it a delicious engine swap candidate like RB's and JZ's
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05-02-2016, 07:05 PM	#17
dreyo27 First Lieutenant 93 Rep 322 Posts Drives: 2007 335i e92 Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Sacramento CA iTrader: (3)	Ok saying that the N54 is german 2jz is wrong as the 2JZ-GTE is actually German LOL. Yes its been proven that crank rods and pistons are forged as well as the cylinder liners as well if i remember correctly. Thats why we don't have to have a built engine to get 900 crank HP. Yournamehere90 ment Not sleeved. meaning assuming the pistons/rods hold up, you would still have to sleeve the block on the B58... Just think back to the Horsepowerfreaks stage 3 kit for the S54. Last edited by dreyo27; 05-02-2016 at 07:15 PM..
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05-02-2016, 08:14 PM	#18
Kevinl Lieutenant 229 Rep 567 Posts Drives: 2017 BMW M3 Alpine White 6MT Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Phoenix iTrader: (0)	N55, S55, B58 none of them have dethroned the king #N54 4Life
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05-02-2016, 08:34 PM	#21
Kevinl Lieutenant 229 Rep 567 Posts Drives: 2017 BMW M3 Alpine White 6MT Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Phoenix iTrader: (0)	Is there a s55 over 800hp? I thought they were in the 600's
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