[Mavus]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

Destroys the old F22 M235i/240i.

Weight is a number on a spec sheet; CLAR cars are known for masking the subjective feeling of weight while delivering superior real-world measurable performance. CLAR cars punch above their weight class (or is it below?).

Yes, the old car's lighter - it's also nearly decade-old chassis tech. I bet you could've told some people after a test drive that the G42 is lighter than the F22 and they'd easily believe it.

F-generation cars were not known for excellent steering feel by any means. The steering on this car is noticeably sharper than the F22's.

Everyone who drives a G42 immediately compares it to the M2 Comp; this car overdelivers for its price point and positioning in the product lineup.

The only thing stopping this car from being a universal instant classic is the lack of manual transmission option. Even with that knock against it, this is still going to end up an enthusiast favorite. It's just a fantastic package all around.

The 230i will also surprise some people. I drove an M-Sport a few weeks ago and loved it, surprising level of fun factor. RWD + less weight + CLAR = two thumbs up.

hope you got sandwiches from bmw

[ferasjamshed@gmail.com]

this image makes the car look really good, almost as good as the f87 and the numbers look epic, could we get an M2 in go 0-60 in 3.0

[WWM3]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

There are zero reasons why the M2 won't be hundreds of pounds lighter... drop sound deading, add the regular carbon fiber bits, more lightweight rims, seats, carbons ceramics, drop the awd.

I won't be shocked if the new M2 weighs the same or less than the last generation.

No reason to freak out about the weight/driving dynamics as this is not an M2...

however what this is a killer base

The one reason I can think of is that the G80 and G20 are very similar in weight. Hopefully that doesn't carry over to the new M2.

[SpencerC_6MT]

Originally Posted by PLF69

It's ridiculous I could comfortably sit in the back of my past M235 and LCI M2 and can't in the new model.

I tried but head hits the glass and knees don't clear. And the car is a lot heavier, it's just strange what they did here...

PS: I'm 6 feet

The reason for this is obvious, but it's still a shame. The F22 had to a share a platform with its 1-series hatch brothers, and thus gained the reasonable backseat and bubbly proportions of those cars. Now that the 1-series is on a transverse platform, they were free to squeeze the backseat area and stretch that dash-axle gap. It's really unfortunate; although the F22 could've done with a shorter greenhouse and less upright back glass, those traits are also what make it a genuine sedan substitute. That's no longer the case with the G42.

TL;DR: none of this matters, one has a stick and one doesn't

[Clefmonster]

Originally Posted by watermelon3878

The reason for this is obvious, but it's still a shame. The F22 had to a share a platform with its 1-series hatch brothers, and thus gained the reasonable backseat and bubbly proportions of those cars. Now that the 1-series is on a transverse platform, they were free to squeeze the backseat area and stretch that dash-axle gap. It's really unfortunate; although the F22 could've done with a shorter greenhouse and less upright back glass, those traits are also what make it a genuine sedan substitute. That's no longer the case with the G42.

TL;DR: none of this matters, one has a stick and one doesn't

The f22 stretched the dash axle gap? Still looks super generic-fwd proportions to me

Edit: my bad. Thought the f22 was the 2 gran coupe

[MarlboroM2C]

Originally Posted by 02M3ForMe

I demanded they give me these instead

why will BMW not use Hydraulic steering anymore.? Gosh I miss it. My M2C is missing that feel. I prefer the older feel.

[thaalrasha]

M lites are always amazing on paper and raw performance... but you just don't have the extra bits of the "real" M cars that makes the car feel alive due to the extra chassis changes.

Faster car doesn't always mean more enjoyable to drive either.

reminds me of this :
https://youtu.be/IUU1yfK0A8Y

[TheStanman]

Originally Posted by Al Bundy's Dodge

The anger over shitty steering is misdirected at BMW when it should be directed at lazy drivers that have zero interest in, well, driving.

As Germanauto noted, that is not an excuse for BMW. Other OEMs offer much better steering feel while serving the mainstream public that doesn't care.

I understand why BMW thinks no steering feel is fitting for an X5 or even a base 5-series, but do they really think an M240i or M car buyer is turned off by steering feel? Only CS models have good steering.

I love the CS models, but they've become an excuse to make subpar M cars. They made the conscious decisions to limit what made BMW famous (steering, suspension tuning) to very expensive, limited production run cars.

[TheStanman]

Originally Posted by MarlboroM2C

why will BMW not use Hydraulic steering anymore.? Gosh I miss it. My M2C is missing that feel. I prefer the older feel.

EPS has replaced hydraulic for 2 main reasons - fuel economy and driver assistance systems. First is needed because of govt regulations, second is because consumers truly do expect it.

As discussed, the issue is not hydraulic vs EPS. BMW consciously chooses to remove feel from their EPS. They could have done the same thing with a hydraulic rack.

When I drive older hydraulic racks now, I do think we've romanticized our memory of them somewhat. I generally prefer a good modern EPS to an older hydraulic rack.

[10"]

No manual = no care

Statistics mean nothing to me anymore!

[jp1984]

This reminds me of when the N54 came out and people were not sure why the jump to the s65 was worth it. It all comes down to dynamics though, lets see if time treats this the same way!

[Al Bundy's Dodge]

Originally Posted by TheStanman

As Germanauto noted, that is not an excuse for BMW. Other OEMs offer much better steering feel while serving the mainstream public that doesn't care.

I understand why BMW thinks no steering feel is fitting for an X5 or even a base 5-series, but do they really think an M240i or M car buyer is turned off by steering feel? Only CS models have good steering.

I love the CS models, but they've become an excuse to make subpar M cars. They made the conscious decisions to limit what made BMW famous (steering, suspension tuning) to very expensive, limited production run cars.

Of course it's a good excuse. BMW exists to make money for its shareholders. In order to maximize sales, and therefore profits, they listened to what their mainstream buyers wanted. Why would a business give customers something they don't want?

BMW has not been an enthusiast brand for a long time, so the expectation that they cater to what we on the forum value is only going to lead to disappointment.

That said, I would agree there should at least be better EPS in the M cars. No excuse there. I love my OG M2, and I don't find the steering to be terrible like my F30. It's very precise, But it's still lacking in the weight and feel I used to enjoy. When I drove my neighbors 135i this past summer, it certainly made me wish the M2 had its steeering feel. Hell, I've even found myself longing for my old e90 just to get a taste of the old hydraulic rack from time to time…to the point I've been poking around the used car market for one.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Well Porsche, Alfa Romeo, and GM's performance division have figured out how to make EPS quite respectable. BMW always had the best steering in the industry, the only logical explanation [and the one that BMW opens admits to] is that they don't want their steering to be very stiff or feel-some any longer. They can do it if they want to, as I hear the CS models steer wonderfully.

Hell you can add Mazda to that list as well, excellent steering for mainstream products.

[zipstic]

Originally Posted by ferasjamshed@gmail.com

this image makes the car look really good, almost as good as the f87 and the numbers look epic, could we get an M2 in go 0-60 in 3.0

G87 0-60 in 3.0? I'm going to predict no. The lack of AWD is going to cause the 0-60 time to suffer.

A heavily tuned M2 CS is "only" getting to 60 in 3.2 seconds.

https://drivetribe.com/p/the-m2-comp...SiytoBX_YQdoQg

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by TheStanman

EPS has replaced hydraulic for 2 main reasons - fuel economy and driver assistance systems. First is needed because of govt regulations, second is because consumers truly do expect it.

As discussed, the issue is not hydraulic vs EPS. BMW consciously chooses to remove feel from their EPS. They could have done the same thing with a hydraulic rack.

When I drive older hydraulic racks now, I do think we've romanticized our memory of them somewhat. I generally prefer a good modern EPS to an older hydraulic rack.

I still prefer hydraulic but understand its no longer justifiable for any manufacturer (I think only McLaren still uses it). I've complained a lot about EPS over the years how it certainly has some benefits. It is the reason why Alfa has been able to attain the insanely quick steering they've been able to.

Porsche's EPS feels closest to hydraulic in my opinion. Back to back you'll notice the difference, but otherwise you get used to their EPS very fast and it feels very natural.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Hell you can add Mazda to that list as well, excellent steering for mainstream products.

I still need to get around to driving a Miata.

[AllaVodka]

Damn. I was hoping for better "driving feel" and a manual. Guess i'm just going to keep my 340i for now. Best bang for the buck imo

[floating.spirit]

Originally Posted by PLF69

Yes I also owned a 135i and it was very practical.

I have not tried the back seat of the new 4 series/M4 yet.

I'm 5'8 and found the latest M4 lacking head room. I had to slouch down slightly to avoid contact.

[mburg]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

I still prefer hydraulic but understand its no longer justifiable for any manufacturer (I think only McLaren still uses it). I've complained a lot about EPS over the years how it certainly has some benefits. It is the reason why Alfa has been able to attain the insanely quick steering they've been able to.

Porsche's EPS feels closest to hydraulic in my opinion. Back to back you'll notice the difference, but otherwise you get used to their EPS very fast and it feels very natural.

I guess I don't understand why they can't 'dial it in' through the software so that the hydraulic like road feel is there.

[Mako]

Originally Posted by zipstic

G87 0-60 in 3.0? I'm going to predict no. The lack of AWD is going to cause the 0-60 time to suffer.

A heavily tuned M2 CS is "only" getting to 60 in 3.2 seconds.

https://drivetribe.com/p/the-m2-comp...SiytoBX_YQdoQg

Yeah, Front Engine and RWD, guessing 3.5 at best, will hardly be any lighter than M3 RWD with similar power and that does 3.6

to break 3.5 with RWD you really need mid or rear engine.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by mburg

I guess I don't understand why they can't 'dial it in' through the software so that the hydraulic like road feel is there.

There's a lot more to it than just the steering programming. Somebody here with an engineering background can explain better.

[bmw335ie90]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

There's a lot more to it than just the steering programming. Somebody here with an engineering background can explain better.

Excellent video explains it:

This dudes channel is filled with great nerdy engineering shit!