05-06-2024, 02:47 PM | #67 |
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Never learned how to drive an automatic yet.
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05-06-2024, 06:29 PM | #68 | |||
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This is my 4th car, and each have been manual transmission. I crossed off entire brands based on whether they had an option with a manual transmission. I daily drive mine and get stuck in traffic, but it was a non-negotiable to me. I don't need the extra 0.2 seconds of 0-60 time that the auto gets you anyway. And of the options I found with a manual transmission available, it was hard to argue for any other car out there for what you get. So no, no regrets going with manual. But probably not fair coming from some of us, since we never would've considered auto in the first place...just would've bought a different car. |
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05-06-2024, 07:10 PM | #69 | |
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05-06-2024, 10:28 PM | #71 | |
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Drives: G87 M2; E92M3 MT&DCT; M3 euro
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Upshifts for sure are faster with ZF8 thanks to the shorter gears, but then again DCT could do them without that momentary torque interruption that ZF8 has. With your breadth of experience, I'm sure you are aware even faster multiple downshifts are possible with today's auto rev-matching manuals. E92M did not have that, and I wasn't trying to shift that fast either.
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05-06-2024, 10:52 PM | #72 |
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Rev matching doesn't let you shift any faster. Only double clutching relieves the burden of the synchros. How fast you can shift any BMW manual is really limited by how badly you want to abuse your synchros and transmission. They suck for fast shifts compared to Tremec etc. I can shift faster into 2nd in my Mazda than M2C rev matching on or off.
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05-06-2024, 11:51 PM | #74 | |
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I had 250,000km on my E36 M3 3.2 (euro 6 speed), have 130,000km on E36 M3 3.0 (euro 5 speed), and 130,000km on E92 M3. All of them driven like stolen cars since day one. None of these cars suffered noticeable synchro wear that you speak of, let alone clutch wear (only the 3.2 had it changed at 220,000km, but due to the leaky rear main seal, not the pressure plate wear.) These aren't 1960s VW shitboxes.
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05-07-2024, 12:35 AM | #75 | |
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Anyway, my original point still stands that auto rev matching has no effect on your ability to shift fast. If you want to speak like an authority on the subject you might want to understand the basics of how a MT works. You can pretend you're hot shit, but no one is shifting faster than even a ZF8. You can do multiple downshifts with ZF8 or DCT by holding the left paddle which automatically grabs the shortest gear or by using the kickdown function. Last edited by chris719; 05-07-2024 at 12:45 AM.. |
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05-07-2024, 12:43 AM | #76 | |
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05-07-2024, 06:47 AM | #77 |
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This is a trivial / silly observation I’ve had over the last 20-25 years, but autos on performance cars, especially with louder exhaust, sound like hell while driven hard outside the vehicle. The auto-shifting noises just completely rob from the cool factor. There’s ways to make the exhaust do certain things and pops and burbles with a MT that are either more difficult or impossible in an auto. Childish, I know, but it’s a thing.
Nothing worse than a deafening mufflerless something next to you and hearing the auto shift as it speeds away. Is it just me?
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05-07-2024, 07:30 AM | #78 |
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I have owned both. Manual in my G87 and auto in my M4. It's manual hands down
. The auto is a torque converter auto and the shifting sucks, it's not fast and crisp when using the paddles. It will surge and slam dramatically but it doesn't feel connected to you as a driver. I feel like all of the reviewers are regurgitating one another. Yes it's faster to shift than you can. But everything feels delayed when shifting manually (and yes i have it set to its mosf aggressive setting), there isnt the feeling of a mechanical connection from the paddles to the trans. Plus you are more likely chasing fun on the street and the occasional laptime where being a couple tenths slower on shifting won't matter. I just had my M2 at Road America and downshifting going into the corners and shifting up on the straights was glorious. Also, playing around on the street is so much more fun with the manual, even at low speeds. |
05-07-2024, 09:30 AM | #79 | |
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Double clutching does too, but it takes extra time. And subjects the clutch (mainly the throwout/release bearing) to extra wear/tear. I don't know which Mazda you are comparing the M2 to but I suspect it is not apples to apples. My 2023 JCW shifted quicker than my M2. The reason? The JCW manual was smaller/lighter because it only had to deal with 228hp/236 ft lbs of torque. The M2 manual is heavier because it has to deal with 453hp/406 ft lbs of torque. The heavier internals of the M2 is the reason for the slower shifting speed. (As an aside, the fastest shifting manual transmission in my experience was the one in my 2002 Boxster. 217hp/196 ft lbs of torque. Faster shifting due to lighter weight internals.) Even with the heavier internals the M2 transmission is I believe the fastest shifting manual transmission compared to any car with an engine of similar power/torque I've owned. These include a 2006 Pontiac GTO (400hp), Porsche Turbo (420hp), Dodge Scat Pack (485hp). When shifting the M2 under hard acceleration I don't have to wait any for the shift to occur. The next gear is selected as fast as I can move the shift lever. The M2 manual is really an awesome transmission. But I would still think the automatic would have a quicker shift time. |
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05-07-2024, 09:36 AM | #80 |
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How many 6MT guys here have done the CDV delete? And what's your opinion of the change? (yes I know there's other threads on this)
I wonder if that would be a way to get a slight bit better predictability/smoothness around town in slower traffic in a daily grind..
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05-07-2024, 11:11 AM | #82 |
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05-07-2024, 11:24 AM | #83 |
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Some serious "Mine's bigger!" going on in this thread. 🤣
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05-07-2024, 11:53 AM | #85 | |
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05-07-2024, 11:57 AM | #86 | |
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So while you are correct, you still have to match the gear speed with wheel speed... that is what synchros are for... because each gear is a different size and will rotate at a different speed when the vehicle speed is held consent. The synchros, "synchronize", the gear RPM to the wheel RPM whenever you're pushing into the next gear. Throttle blips match the engine speed to the gear speed thereby preserving the clutch, but the blips do nothing to match the gear speed to the wheel speed. During a shift three separate rotating masses need to be aligned: Wheel RPM <-synchro-> Gear RPM <-clutch-> Engine RPM Last edited by Celestion; 05-07-2024 at 12:22 PM.. |
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05-07-2024, 12:03 PM | #87 | |
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Just have to breathe and accept clicking a finger will always be faster, even if it’s not a DCT and just ZF8 + Torque Converter. |
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05-07-2024, 12:08 PM | #88 | |
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You could come and lend me the ZF8 variant at NJMP Thunderbolt on May 25th. I'll film a short comparison video.
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