[2BIG4A3]

2010 E60 n54
89k km (55ish k miles)

DCI
charge pipe + BOV
Meowless DPs
Intercooler
Secondary meow delete
Exhaust flap mod (exhaust delete on flap side)
MHD stage 2+


Long term goals
Between 550-575 wheel on TDO4s


My question is
Based on *personal* experiences

Will adding port inject (with injectors not nozzles) meth and a custom tune (using meth as fuel) add enough power to take the car to a 'new level' or will it be insufficient and I should just wait and do the meth, upgraded turbos, clutch, and LPFP all in one shot.

Thanks

[Smgs1992]

Lpfp and E50 custom tune should not a decent bump in power. Add inlets as well but if you're gonna upgrade the turbos might as well wait to do that at once. You could also consider a helix overdrive pump instead of port injection and you should be able to meet your goals.(once you upgrade turbos)

[langsbr]

Do you have access to E85? If so, just an LPFP and a set of hybrids really takes the car to the next level. Everyone that says they want 700 or 800 whp without ever having driven a car with even half that much power doesn't realize how fast a 550 - 600whp car (at our car's weight) really is.

I only run E30 with hybrids and no current plans to run meth or PI. The car is "fast enough" for now. I would do an LSD and 17" wheels before adding more power.

[mweisdorfer]

Originally Posted by 2BIG4A3

2010 E60 n54
89k km (55ish k miles)

DCI
charge pipe + BOV
Meowless DPs
Intercooler
Secondary meow delete
Exhaust flap mod (exhaust delete on flap side)
MHD stage 2+


Long term goals
Between 550-575 wheel on TDO4s


My question is
Based on *personal* experiences

Will adding port inject (with injectors not nozzles) meth and a custom tune (using meth as fuel) add enough power to take the car to a 'new level' or will it be insufficient and I should just wait and do the meth, upgraded turbos, clutch, and LPFP all in one shot.

Thanks

Inlets

Outlets

Custom tune (wedge)

Upgraded turbos (stage 2)

Stage 2 fuel pump

I don't think you need port injection, upgraded coils & meth to hit 550 HP.

If you want to get to 600 - 650, yes

[E93Beast]

Originally Posted by langsbr

Do you have access to E85? If so, just an LPFP and a set of hybrids really takes the car to the next level. Everyone that says they want 700 or 800 whp without ever having driven a car with even half that much power doesn't realize how fast a 550 - 600whp car (at our car's weight) really is.

I only run E30 with hybrids and no current plans to run meth or PI. The car is "fast enough" for now. I would do an LSD and 17" wheels before adding more power.

This....
600whp is faster than most people think.
While its not stupid fast, you can and will smoke 90/95% + of cars that pull up on you.
Ethanol is your friend. Cheap , high octane, excellent knock resistance and cooling properties.

[E93Beast]

Originally Posted by 2BIG4A3

2010 E60 n54
89k km (55ish k miles)

DCI
charge pipe + BOV
Meowless DPs
Intercooler
Secondary meow delete
Exhaust flap mod (exhaust delete on flap side)
MHD stage 2+


Long term goals
Between 550-575 wheel on TDO4s


My question is
Based on *personal* experiences

Will adding port inject (with injectors not nozzles) meth and a custom tune (using meth as fuel) add enough power to take the car to a 'new level' or will it be insufficient and I should just wait and do the meth, upgraded turbos, clutch, and LPFP all in one shot.

Thanks

What does MHD stg2+ target boost (curve)? Any idea what timing curve is like ?
Easier question, what whp do people make on stg2+ ?
I ask because Im jb4 and can tell you what differences fuels and boost can achieve on stock or hybrids, just not familiar with MHD OTS maps.
Also how far are you willing to push the stockers ?
Stock turbos on N54 can easily make 460 /470 whp pushing pretty hard. Max them out at 500whp and they wont live long.
400/430 whp and they could last quite a while.

[Saif2018]

Originally Posted by CLEAN E93

What does MHD stg2+ target boost (curve)? Any idea what timing curve is like ?
Easier question, what whp do people make on stg2+ ?
I ask because Im jb4 and can tell you what differences fuels and boost can achieve on stock or hybrids, just not familiar with MHD OTS maps.
Also how far are you willing to push the stockers ?
Stock turbos on N54 can easily make 460 /470 whp pushing pretty hard. Max them out at 500whp and they wont live long.
400/430 whp and they could last quite a while.

https://mhdtuning.com/mhd-flasher-n54/

Targets about 18psi on stage 2+ then tapers down to about 14psi up top.

Anything more is gonna be reaching the limit of the stock turbos /life expectancy will be significantly reduced.

[E93Beast]

Originally Posted by Saif2018

https://mhdtuning.com/mhd-flasher-n54/

Targets about 18psi on stage 2+ then tapers down to about 14psi up top.

Anything more is gonna be reaching the limit of the stock turbos /life expectancy will be significantly reduced.

Anything more IS pushing things, not at the limits though if you target 20/21 in midrange. Stock turbos do very well up to 24 psi in the midrange. Wgdc is not excessive, taper on top end as the stockers dont do very well on top end. Great for making torque early in the power band.
I used to run mine on 24 psi tapering to 19 fbo w inlets and E60ish fuel. No problems. Until a coupler let loose during WOT and turbos free spun destroying the bearings and seals. Before that I ran them at 22 psi midrange tapering to 17, no inlets and e40....never had an issue.

As far as life expectancy goes.....stock turbos SUCK. There is a reason why BMW extended warranty on turbos.....they were crapping out even at STOCK boost levels .

[E93Beast]

Anyways, before we get off topic....OP, what is your comfort level pushing your car ? EVERYTHING is a risk. Some higher risk than others.

[Saif2018]

Originally Posted by CLEAN E93

Anything more IS pushing things, not at the limits though if you target 20/21 in midrange. Stock turbos do very well up to 24 psi in the midrange. Wgdc is not excessive, taper on top end as the stockers dont do very well on top end. Great for making torque early in the power band.
I used to run mine on 24 psi tapering to 19 fbo w inlets and E60ish fuel. No problems. Until a coupler let loose during WOT and turbos free spun destroying the bearings and seals. Before that I ran them at 22 psi midrange tapering to 17, no inlets and e40....never had an issue.

As far as life expectancy goes.....stock turbos SUCK. There is a reason why BMW extended warranty on turbos.....they were crapping out even at STOCK boost levels .

Lol stock turbos do well 24psi, yeah if you want to kill your stock turbos real quick.

https://bmwtuning.co/bmw-n54-max-boost-on-stock-turbos/

18 psi is about the max you would want to push stock turbos, if you want decent longevity.

[E93Beast]

Originally Posted by Saif2018

Lol stock turbos do well 24psi, yeah if you want to kill your stock turbos real quick.

https://bmwtuning.co/bmw-n54-max-boost-on-stock-turbos/

18 psi is about the max you would want to push stock turbos, if you want decent longevity.

Didnt even bother reading the link. I site real world experience with logs and dynos to back it up. Not quotes from online / websites. So LOL to you !
Many, and I mean MANY custom tuners will target 24 psi on stock turbos early in the midrange and start tapering off for longevity. I guess you know more than custom tuners, dyno sheets, and data logs.
Go to N54tech and check out some of the logs posted (many cars w stockers well over 18 psi) since you like reading to claim experience, LMAO !!!
Jb4 map 7 with 3.5 tmap targets more than 18 psi , LOL !
As i said before, stock turbos fail under regular FACTORY boost. Thats why they extended warranty. So even 16 psi is technically pushing DOUBLE the factory boost and risky.

Since you know so much, please tell me what is an acceptable pwm/ wgdc for stock turbos to not be "killed"? Obviously running at 100% pwm/wgdc would kill any turbo, upgraded or stock.
So what would YOU (not asking anyone else to chime in), consider safe to push ?

[Saif2018]

Originally Posted by CLEAN E93

Didnt even bother reading the link. I site real world experience with logs and dynos to back it up. Not quotes from online / websites. So LOL to you !
Many, and I mean MANY custom tuners will target 24 psi on stock turbos early in the midrange and start tapering off for longevity. I guess you know more than custom tuners, dyno sheets, and data logs.
Go to N54tech and check out some of the logs posted (many cars w stockers well over 18 psi) since you like reading to claim experience, LMAO !!!
Jb4 map 7 with 3.5 tmap targets more than 18 psi , LOL !
As i said before, stock turbos fail under regular FACTORY boost. Thats why they extended warranty. So even 16 psi is technically pushing DOUBLE the factory boost and risky.

Since you know so much, please tell me what is an acceptable pwm/ wgdc for stock turbos to not be "killed"? Obviously running at 100% pwm/wgdc would kill any turbo, upgraded or stock.
So what would YOU (not asking anyone else to chime in), consider safe to push ?

Hmmm... I never read targetting 24psi was a good idea on stock turbos. From what I read 20 is about the realistic limit, and they run of puff at higher psi, ineffeciencies

I don't know anyone with a N54 who runs a tune with 24psi on stock turbos, never even heard of it. If you do, good for you, I wouldn't recommend anyone do it.

No need to get triggered, lol, I never claimed to know much or be an expert.

[E93Beast]

Originally Posted by Saif2018

Hmmm... I never read targetting 24psi was a good idea on stock turbos.

I don't know anyone with a N54 who runs a tune with 24psi on stock turbos, never even heard of it. If you do, good for you, I wouldn't recommend anyone do it.

No need to get triggered, lol, I never claimed to know much or be an expert.

Yes, Yes whatever anyone else says doesn't matter, its safe to target 24psi on stock turbos.

Perfect childish response.
I know longer have stock turbos...so im past the 24 psi mark.
If you READ up above, I stated risks with running higher boost. I also said, BEFORE WE GET OFF TOPIC... and asked op his comfort level (as I said, everything is a risk and once AGAIN stock turbos have FAILED at STOCK boost levels. Yet you still wanted to derail the thread with your vast knowledge right after I said....lets not get off topic to say that 18 psi is max you should run on stock turbos. Factory BMW will tell you different. Nobody is arguing that higher boost = more risk (already mentioned this in above posts), not just to turbos but everything in general. This includes axles, driveshaft, mounts, motor, rods, etc.

[E93Beast]

Originally Posted by Saif2018

Hmmm... I never read targetting 24psi was a good idea on stock turbos. From what I read 20 is about the realistic limit, and they run of puff at higher psi, ineffeciencies

I don't know anyone with a N54 who runs a tune with 24psi on stock turbos, never even heard of it. If you do, good for you, I wouldn't recommend anyone do it.

No need to get triggered, lol, I never claimed to know much or be an expert.

You must not know a lot of people then.
Go to n54tech and see how many peiple run OTS BEF with map7 which is already over 18 psi. Then see all the guys running upgraded tmap which BEF will target even HIGHER boost levels.
Stock turbos with 60s pwm...yeah, these wouldnt last long at those levels
TUNING , fueling, and supporting mods is key to longevity AND making power.

[E93Beast]

And a quick screenshot I found on the other site.....is that 24 psi on a custom tune I see ???? Asking about upgrading turbos
Once again, more risk yes, possible and have decent (not dangerous) looking logs, yes. Do I recommend everyone run 24 psi, fuck no, read above and see.

[Saif2018]

Originally Posted by CLEAN E93

Perfect childish response.
I know longer have stock turbos...so im past the 24 psi mark.
If you READ up above, I stated risks with running higher boost. I also said, BEFORE WE GET OFF TOPIC... and asked op his comfort level (as I said, everything is a risk and once AGAIN stock turbos have FAILED at STOCK boost levels. Yet you still wanted to derail the thread with your vast knowledge right after I said....lets not get off topic to say that 18 psi is max you should run on stock turbos. Factory BMW will tell you different. Nobody is arguing that higher boost = more risk (already mentioned this in above posts), not just to turbos but everything in general. This includes axles, driveshaft, mounts, motor, rods, etc.

You got triggered again,

Obviously there's risk to tuning, that wasn't the point.

There's multiple threads, forums articles all saying about 20 psi is realistic limit on stock turbos, none of them said 24psi or higher on stock turbos.

You want to ask MHD or are you going to tell me they know jack as well?

This know it all, I know best, everyone elses opinion doesn't matter attitude of yours isn't healthy you know.

[Saif2018]

Originally Posted by CLEAN E93

And a quick screenshot I found on the other site.....is that 24 psi on a custom tune I see ???? Asking about upgrading turbos
Once again, more risk yes, possible and have decent (not dangerous) looking logs, yes. Do I recommend everyone run 24 psi, fuck no, read above and see.

If you wouldn't recommend it, then the whole post was pointless.

Nobody seems to recommend running 24psi on stock turbos, I wonder why.

Face-palm

Arguing for the sake of arguing. Nevermind

[E93Beast]

Originally Posted by Saif2018

Hmmm... I never read targetting 24psi was a good idea on stock turbos. From what I read 20 is about the realistic limit, and they run of puff at higher psi, ineffeciencies

I don't know anyone with a N54 who runs a tune with 24psi on stock turbos, never even heard of it. If you do, good for you, I wouldn't recommend anyone do it.

No need to get triggered, lol, I never claimed to know much or be an expert.

So where did you read that 18psi was " a good idea" please post a link, that I would like to read. Ahhhh....you probably cant just like you couldnt find 24 psi being a good idea.
Run out of puff ? Correct, no arguements there. They do not hold power on top end at all. BUT most logs I have reviewed struggle to hold 14/ 15 psi on top end. With proper tuning and tweaks to vanos, you can hold 19psi at 6k easily with healthy STOCK turbos which regardless is a nice increase in power on top end , once again, with more risks. Hell, even the screenshot of the log shows 22 psi at 5k which is higher than most logs Ive seen on OTS tunes and still at an acceptable pwm / wgdc. Egts play a big part as well. HEAT KILLS turbos among other things. Fueling helps a LOT. I run full E85 to help keep cylinder temps down (like I said, fueling and supporting mods), anyways good luck to everyone on this thread.

Im out

[Saif2018]

Originally Posted by CLEAN E93

So where did you read that 18psi was " a good idea" please post a link, that I would like to read. Ahhhh....you probably cant just like you couldnt find 24 psi being a good idea.
Run out of puff ? Correct, no arguements there. They do not hold power on top end at all. BUT most logs I have reviewed struggle to hold 14/ 15 psi on top end. With proper tuning and tweaks to vanos, you can hold 19psi at 6k easily with healthy STOCK turbos which regardless is a nice increase in power on top end , once again, with more risks. Hell, even the screenshot of the log shows 22 psi at 5k which is higher than most logs Ive seen on OTS tunes and still at an acceptable pwm / wgdc. Egts play a big part as well. HEAT KILLS turbos among other things. Fueling helps a LOT. I run full E85 to help keep cylinder temps down (like I said, fueling and supporting mods), anyways good luck to everyone on this thread.

Im out

MHD targets 18 psi on a stage 2+ car with Downpipes and intercooler,

Your saying thats not a good idea?

You didn't even bother to read the link posted earlier.

Can you read this and post your input?

https://bmwtuning.co/bmw-n54-max-boost-on-stock-turbos/

[E93Beast]

Originally Posted by Saif2018

If you wouldn't recommend it, then the whole post was pointless.

Nobody seems to recommend running 24psi on stock turbos, I wonder why.

Face-palm

Arguing for the sake of arguing. Nevermind

so you recommend running 18 psi ???
Once again for the special peiple that take the special bus. Stock turbos FAIL at stock boost levels PERIOD. the rest is up to your comfort levels of risk.
Read everything I posted.
I dont recommend it as everyone is running different hardware. If done correctly once again WITH supporting mods, its definitely doable and being done on a day basis without blowing shit up....
Lets see if this shuts you up since u like using MHD....PAY WEDGE for a custom tune. Lets see if he doesnt target over 18 psi, LMMFAO !!!!!!!! I dont care what he targets peak, it will be MORE than 18 psi that you say is max people should push on stockers. I know a couple guys on stock turbos and wedge tuned....its over the 18 you say is MAX because you are on MHDs nuts which is Ken....the same guy that will target higher psi if you pay him for a custom tune.
This time, im out !

[Saif2018]

Originally Posted by CLEAN E93

so you recommend running 18 psi ???
Once again for the special peiple that take the special bus. Stock turbos FAIL at stock boost levels PERIOD. the rest is up to your comfort levels of risk.
Read everything I posted.
I dont recommend it as everyone is running different hardware. If done correctly once again WITH supporting mods, its definitely doable and being done on a day basis without blowing shit up....
This time, im out !

Special people, lol, muwahahaha

I thought 18psi was reasonably safe for a stage2+ car, with the correct supporting mods

Correct me if I'm mistaken.

Yes stock turbos can fail even at stock boost levels, true.

The point I was making is even with supporting hardware, I haven't seen anyone recommend or say its safe to run stock turbos at 24psi.

[Saif2018]

Originally Posted by CLEAN E93

so you recommend running 18 psi ???
Once again for the special peiple that take the special bus. Stock turbos FAIL at stock boost levels PERIOD. the rest is up to your comfort levels of risk.
Read everything I posted.
I dont recommend it as everyone is running different hardware. If done correctly once again WITH supporting mods, its definitely doable and being done on a day basis without blowing shit up....
Lets see if this shuts you up since u like using MHD....PAY WEDGE for a custom tune. Lets see if he doesnt target over 18 psi, LMMFAO !!!!!!!! I dont care what he targets peak, it will be MORE than 18 psi that you say is max people should push on stockers. I know a couple guys on stock turbos and wedge tuned....its over the 18 you say is MAX because you are on MHDs nuts which is Ken....the same guy that will target higher psi if you pay him for a custom tune.
This time, im out !

Pay Wedge lol,

Can't afford to buy intercooler and downpipes yet, before jumping to custom tune. Got other expenses to sort out first before splashing on the car.

On stage 1 98ron map at the moment.