[mmurray]

How exactly do I remove the alignment pins on my pre-LCI e90?

I'm on a stock suspension, and tore through the outside of my tires during my first year of autocross - inside wear was nowhere near as bad. I want to increase camber, but won't be going for bolts/plates or a new suspension to remain in the SCCA Solo stock class.

Just got a new set of Direzzas, and want to get realigned so I don't waste that good rubber - based on some old threads it seems like it's doable and necessary before an alignment if I want negative camber up front.

But how do I do it? An allen wrench fits, but I don't think I'll be able to turn it. Even after I use a grabit if necessary, will the strut just fall inside?

Also this may be a stupid question, but why is the driver's side pin on the outside? Thanks!!

[mmurray]

I know it's filthy... thank the shore for the sand. And rusty bolts are expected at 170k. But here's an image of the towers for reference.

Which raises another question: how the heck do I unbolt those supports which I assume are connected at the firewall?? Don't tell me I have to remove all that plastic for this little pin

[kentgbr]

Originally Posted by mmurray

How exactly do I remove the alignment pins on my pre-LCI e90?

I'm on a stock suspension, and tore through the outside of my tires during my first year of autocross - inside wear was nowhere near as bad. I want to increase camber, but won't be going for bolts/plates or a new suspension to remain in the SCCA Solo stock class.

Just got a new set of Direzzas, and want to get realigned so I don't waste that good rubber - based on some old threads it seems like it's doable and necessary before an alignment if I want negative camber up front.

But how do I do it? An allen wrench fits, but I don't think I'll be able to turn it. Even after I use a grabit if necessary, will the strut just fall inside?

Also this may be a stupid question, but why is the driver's side pin on the outside? Thanks!!

You will likely have to drill out the pins as the allen head bolts strip out very easily. There is room to drill with the strut tower brace in place though it's a little tight on the passenger side. I drilled deep in to the pins and then used an easy out bit to spin them out.

[gtaccord]

You don't have to drill them out. Slot them with a dremel or hack saw and use a flat head screwdriver. They are threaded so they come right out easy like any screw.

[David1]

Removing these will not do much for you for autocross.

[doogee]

I grabbed them with visegrips, twisted them and they popped out.

[mlifxs]

I'm able to push the strut bar aside after removing the fastener near the strut.

Once you get the pins out, moving the strut towards the engine can be difficult....one way to ease the effort is to raise the car on both sides so you're not fighting sway bar tension.

Pin removal won't have a monumental effect but it's practically a free improvement.

Be aware your front toe may change (less total toe).

[mmurray]

Originally Posted by David1

Removing these will not do much for you for autocross.

I'm worried less about the performance than I am about the tire wear. I'd say my outside half of the tire wore 20-30% faster due to autoX putting stress on the shoulder in hard cornering. Just trying to preserve more tire now that I'm running soft compounds (200 UTQG)

[mmurray]

Originally Posted by gtaccord

You don't have to drill them out. Slot them with a dremel or hack saw and use a flat head screwdriver. They are threaded so they come right out easy like any screw.

Thanks for the idea! I don't have a removal bit, but was going to pick one up. This seems like an easy first try, with drilling them out as a backup. You didn't have any issues with stripping once you'd slotted the pin?

[gtaccord]

Nope. As some one else said, vise grips work too.

[mmurray]

Originally Posted by mlifxs

I'm able to push the strut bar aside after removing the fastener near the strut.

Once you get the pins out, moving the strut towards the engine can be difficult....one way to ease the effort is to raise the car on both sides so you're not fighting sway bar tension.

Pin removal won't have a monumental effect but it's practically a free improvement.

Be aware your front toe may change (less total toe).

As long as it has some effect, I'll be happy. This is more about tire wear rather than performance benefit. That's just a bonus

I'll try to jack it up and nudge them in. Aside from reaching up and literally pushing it in, is there anything else I can do to move them inward? I saw a screwdriver playing the the top of the strut in one of the other threads and couldn't figure out why.

Also, why would toe change? are the strut 'slots' on an angle under the pin?

[mlifxs]

Originally Posted by mmurray

As long as it has some effect, I'll be happy. This is more about tire wear rather than performance benefit. That's just a bonus

I'll try to jack it up and nudge them in. Aside from reaching up and literally pushing it in, is there anything else I can do to move them inward? I saw a screwdriver playing the the top of the strut in one of the other threads and couldn't figure out why.

Also, why would toe change? are the strut 'slots' on an angle under the pin?

yeah there's a thread on the M3 forum where the guy lifts one side only and uses a pry bar to push it toward the engine. You may find this to be somewhat hard to do. Even if you're able to push it in, it will want to come back so it's a little tricky tightening things up at the same time. I gouged my top hats a little doing it this way, then, when I got camber plates, same thing, until the camber plate vendor explained the "raise up both sides to avoid the sway bar fight". Problem solved, so much easier.

Not sure the exact reason why toe changes, only know that it did for me. No big deal if you know how to adjust back yourself.

[David1]

Originally Posted by mmurray

I'm worried less about the performance than I am about the tire wear. I'd say my outside half of the tire wore 20-30% faster due to autoX putting stress on the shoulder in hard cornering. Just trying to preserve more tire now that I'm running soft compounds (200 UTQG)

You need more camber than just doing the pins to save the tires. Swap the arms and get a good alignment.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by David1

Removing these will not do much for you for autocross.

THIS. You'll have better results flipping the tires than pulling the pin.

[mmurray]

Originally Posted by mlifxs

yeah there's a thread on the M3 forum where the guy lifts one side only and uses a pry bar to push it toward the engine. You may find this to be somewhat hard to do. Even if you're able to push it in, it will want to come back so it's a little tricky tightening things up at the same time. I gouged my top hats a little doing it this way, then, when I got camber plates, same thing, until the camber plate vendor explained the "raise up both sides to avoid the sway bar fight". Problem solved, so much easier.

Not sure the exact reason why toe changes, only know that it did for me. No big deal if you know how to adjust back yourself.

Appreciate the heads up - definitely will lift the whole front before wiggling them in. I haven't messed with toe before though - how would I do that?

Must just get the alignment after they're out... which is proving difficult. Hacksaw and vicegrip methods have failed so far; Grabit's up next.

[mmurray]

Originally Posted by The HACK

THIS. You'll have better results flipping the tires than pulling the pin.

Agreed, but something's better than nothing - I'm not square or symmetrical unfortunately so moving the tires isn't an option.

You don't have to be square in order to swap tires front <-> rear. If they fit then go for it. The car will rotate better and should prove to be beneficial on small courses such as auto-x.

Very few reasons NOT to pull the pins up front; it's definitely worth it. Since this mod is basically free, do it and see how things end up before deciding whether or not to throw money at front end suspension parts.

[lmoretti]

Can someone explain how pulling the pin will allow for more negative camber? Aren't the 3 bolts holding the guide support essentially locked in place regardless? Not sure Im grasping the concept. Thanks

[mlifxs]

[QUOTE=mmurray;16266502 I haven't messed with toe before though - how would I do that?

.[/QUOTE]

in the end, you may prefer professional alignment, but I found that front toe was somewhat manageable to adjust between alignments, even for a hack like me, say for post part install or adjustable camber plate.

Our car's front toe is adjusted by rotating the outer tie rods. A torx bit is used to unlock the tie rod for rotation, a 13mm open wrench can be used to rotate the tie rod.

I used vinyl floor tiles, with salt, under the front tires, to facilitate wheel movement as the tire rods are adjusted. CALWATERBOY gave me this video suggestion describing it along with other particulars:

You can use toe plates to measure your toe, before and after adjustments (and perhaps before you pull your alignment pins).

I have the Longacre toe plates and they are much easier to work with then the string-jackstand method shown in the first video.

If you decide to DIY your measurements or adjustments, consider loading the car with weight, at least enough to represent your weight as a driver, before and after adjustment.

Front toe is all about going slowly with adjustments, remeasuring, and keeping the steering wheel centered as you go.

[mlifxs]

Originally Posted by lmoretti

Can someone explain how pulling the pin will allow for more negative camber? Aren't the 3 bolts holding the guide support essentially locked in place regardless? Not sure Im grasping the concept. Thanks

No the three bolts have play in them, as there is a "slot" for each to move. The alignment pin prevents you from using the play. Once the alignment pins are gone, you can move the struts toward the engine maybe an eighth to a quarter(?) of an inch. It doesn't add a lot, but it's "free"

[john16443]

I've removed my pins previously, and have about -0.8 degrees neg camber on each side. When I changed my front shocks with FSD's recently, I saw that the 3 mounting holes are slotted.

So what would happen if I slotted them a little more? More free neg camber???

[David1]

Originally Posted by john16443

I've removed my pins previously, and have about -0.8 degrees neg camber on each side. When I changed my front shocks with FSD's recently, I saw that the 3 mounting holes are slotted.

So what would happen if I slotted them a little more? More free neg camber???

You will weaken the tower if you make the slots longer.