[mjh93sa]

SE or MSport?
At the risk of starting a riot I thought that I'd make a few comments following my last couple of weeks with an E91 330d SE model instead of my usual E91 330d MSport. Whilst both are nice cars in their own right I offer the following to those who are making trying to decide between the two models.

The SE is obviously billed as the more relaxed and comfort oriented specification, whilst the MSport has more sporting pretensions and calls upon the ///M division to provide a smattering of logo's throughout the interior and exterior of the car.

In either trim the sporting credentials and heritage of the brand are reflected in the sleek lines and sporting stance of the car. The MSport takes it a little further with a deeper more aggressive front air dam with larger cooling openings. At the rear of the car it is a similar story where the MSport replaces the rounded bumper of the SE with a more angular version including a plastic “diffuser” section. Depending on the engine capacity differently sized wheels are also specified as standard, with an increase of 1” in diameter being the norm.

On the inside the sporting theme continues with Aluminium trims as standard and sports inceptors. The standard seats are replaced by sports versions, with the addition of seat base tilt and inflatable side bolsters. The steering wheel is of a smaller diameter, is significantly thicker and has large sections of perforated leather for you to grip, as does the handbrake lever. The gear stick is shortened to give reduced travel and once again is clad in perforated leather.

Under the skin the sporting changes continue with the addition of MSports suspension which is firmer, and also reduces ride height by 10mm.

As soon as you settle behind the wheel the differences are evident. Whilst the seats in the SE are supportive and offer reasonable bolstering for lateral movement, those of the MSport take adjustment, comfort and especially side bolstering to a higher level. Assuming that you have not specified the hideously expensive electric seats the added seat base tilt allows that little more adjustment to find the perfect driving position. The inflatable side bolsters then allow you to set your required amount of lateral grip depending both upon your stature and driving style. The shortened throw of the MSport gear stick gives a much more positive feel to the gear shift, and the meatier MSport steering wheel gives a more positive handful to grip.

There are however downsides to the sporting pretensions. The increased side bolstering of the seats means that they are a shade more difficult to get into and out of when entering and leaving the car. Also, the smaller, thicker steering wheel does not offer as good a view of the instrument cluster unless the adjustment of the steering column is spot on. For me they are small prices to pay for what is on balance a significantly better place to park your behind and hands. If you can add the lumbar support option as well then you have a package where all but the most oddly shaped should be able to find a perfect position.

You can of course specify the sports seats and a sports steering wheel on an SE model, though you don't get the perforated leather and ///M logo on the steering wheel. An SE styled shortened gear stick is also available as a dealer accessory.

On the move the differences become even more apparent. The SE has an unquestionably softer ride and the steering is noticeably lighter. It retains a sporting bias when compared to offering from other mass car manufacturers with less body roll and a firmer, less compliant ride than the mainstream offerings. However, the MSport takes this a stage further. Although there is a certain compliance in the ride, the undulations of the road are passed through to the cabin on all but the smoothest of surfaces. The payback though is that there is little body roll and a confidence inspiring, planted feel at speed. The SE by contrast rolls more and does not feel as stable at speed or in a cross wind. I am sure that most of this is in the mind of the driver and that if put to the test at a proving ground the SE would perform near identically to the MSport, but so much in driving is about feel, and the MSport feels the better of the two.

The SE suspension, for me at least, is something of a quandary. It is not soft enough to qualify as a luxury cruiser in the manner of the sublime ride of an E60 and neither is it able to justify itself as a sporting vehicle as it is too soft and rolls too much. The MSport by comparison does not feel as compromised. With a focus on providing a car that feels planted and corners with minimal body roll (at the expected expense of some ride quality) it strikes what I believe to be a better and more acceptable balance.

I should also at this stage make mention of the tyres fitted to the SE that I have been driving. The vehicle in question has approaching 26000 miles on the clock and has had one pair of tyres replaced. It is running Pirelli Euforias at the front and Bridgestone Potenzas at the rear. I think that the Potenzas are the original tyres that were fitted to the front of the vehicle as they are Y rated and the data plate shows these for the front only. I also recall anecdotal evidence from the 1series forum babybmw.net that the Pirelli Euforia is not strongly favoured amongst them. All I can say is that the directional stability is woeful. The propensity of this particular vehicle to tram-line is alarming. At times it feels as if you have a flat on one side if the car, but then it will as quickly switch to the other side.

My previous car, an E46 320dSE also displayed a significant tendency to tram-line, though no asymmetric tyre wear developed and it was given a full KDS alignment under warranty. It is therefore perhaps a feature of the softer suspension of SE cars, or perhaps of Pirelli tyres, as the E46 ran on P6000s for the duration of my ownership.

The MSport isn't for everyone, but I hope that the above gives you a few insights into what it does offer. Of course all the reading of other peoples opinions counts for nothing when you are spending you own hard earned money, so get your backside behind the wheel and see what you think before buying.

Toys.
As the SE I have been driving is not as well equipped as my MSport is I would like to offer a few further comments.

iDrive
iDrive certainly has it's detractors, and as long as BMW persevere with it under it's current name it will be like a red rag to a motoring journalist. It is complicated and does take a little getting used to, as the operation of the controller is not intuitive. You can be one line above the entry you want, but have to think whether you need to click downwards or rotate the wheel to reach the selection that you want, which can be frustrating. However, after a little practice it becomes second nature and you quickly learn when to use which movement.

With that said I firmly believe that the voice control option should be a standard part of the iDrive system as it allows for almost full control of the system, with the crucial safety feature that you do not have to take your eyes off the road. For this reason alone I would urge anybody thinking of specifying iDrive to add voice control. It does work, and it is safer.

iDrive also allows the car to give you much more information. Whilst driving the SE I was presented with a spurious tyre pressure warning message. A series of symbols presented themselves in the display between the dials, and when I had found a safe place to pull over and consult the manual I was able to tell what they meant. By comparison such information is presented through iDrive in full, and most crucially in English. This allows a full and instant comprehension of the perceived fault. In this case the tyre pressures were fine and after a quick reset the problem has not been seen again.

The SE not having iDrive or SatNav I have also had to fall back on the old Garmin 670, and whilst the entry of data is so much quicker given the touch screen, both the size, clarity of display and the volume of the announcements fall far short of those offered by the ProNav system. Where the Garmin does win hands down through is speed camera warnings. The Garmin gives an audible alert when approaching a camera zone, displays the speedlimit and will repeat the alert if you are travelling too quickly. It quite simple knocks the spots of a little icon on the iDrive screen. This feature alone is so much better that I still use the Garmin to warn of “accident blackspots” when travelling in unfamiliar territory.

Sound
There have been many threads regarding the sound system with many denigrating the standard system. The standard system is acceptable by vehicle standards, but it does lack a clarity that even the HiFi system fitted to my own car produces. Both the bass and treble are slightly lacking in punch and clarity, even with both adjusted upwards. I'm no audiophile, but I am pleased with my choice to upgrade.

Equally, going back to a car without so much as a CD changer is a shock. In the short time that I have had my car I have quickly grown used to the usefulness of the 6FL option. Despite the shortcomings of the system that many bemoan, it is actually a great system that allows you to carry the better part of your music with you. After a week with a single CD I can forgive it the few idiosyncrasies as it offers so much.

Lights
Another topic of much discussion (and lament from those without) is that of Xenon headlights. I have a feeling that the output of the Xenons is not quite as great in the E90 series as it was in the E46, but it is still a quantum leap over the dim yellow candles that the standard system uses. If you can only get one option on your car then this is the one to have!

The adaptive xenon function just takes things a step further. Completely undetectable in operation you suddenly realise that the headlights are always pointing in the direction that you are going. It's only when weaving back and forth on a straight road that you can see them in action.

Sliding Armrest
A lot of people seem to specify the sliding armrest. I have only one question... why? It moves forwards no more than a couple of inches and doesn't do anything (for me at least). At £110 it's silly money for what it does(n't do).

Mirrors
Having the auto-dim interior and exterior mirrors on my own car it has certainly been a backwards step to return to a car without them. Whilst you visibility is compromised by the dimming function when this is active it is no worse than when the glare of the other vehicles lights is all you can see. It is therefore much less distracting when driving in traffic or on the motorway. Additionally by specifying these you also get the mirror dip when selecting reverse to aid visibility of the kerb (which really does work) and also the power fold function. As power folding mirrors are priced at £165 on their own the extra £45 that is costs to specify the dimming function (£210) and get the power fold throw in seems to me to be a no-brainer.

Sunroof
I must preface this section by stating that I am not a fan of sunroofs. I consider them to be an unnecessary hole in the torsion box of the vehicle structure that serves no positive purpose. I know that others think differently, so I will try to be as objective as I can.

The panoramic roof of the E91 is truly massive, it opens most of the way down the length of the car. I have tried it on a number of occasions during my stay with the SE, but have failed to come to like it.

With the blind open the massive expanse of glass allows a great deal of light into the cabin, and whilst this is useful for in-car filming, passengers in the rear quickly complain about the glare from the sun.

If you open the roof to any reasonable degree, then despite the air deflector that pops up at the front of the roof you can do no more than about 40mph before a drumming resonance causes you to quickly shut it gain. Furthermore, it is actually slightly disconcerting to the likes of myself who has never driven a convertible to have that much fresh air just above your head whilst driving!

I would also have to say that there are a number of creaks and rattles in this car that seem to eminate from around the sunroof.

Bluetooth
Finally I will mention the Bluetooth system. Whilst you can connect just about any bluetooth 'phone you will need to select carefully to ensure full compatibility. If you want to be able to buy an extortionately priced cradle to both charge your phone and connect it to the external antennae then your choice is even more severely limited. However, for those curmudgeons amongst us who just want a 'phone to actually speak to people rather than browse the net and take pictures of everything is is a great system. With the cradle fitted to the car I haven't used a 'phone charger (other than for the 1st charge) in the last four years!

... and if you read all that, my thanks and congratulations.

[SDRX]

A brilliant and eloquent comparison of MSport vs SE. I have driven both and agree the cars are aimed at different crowds. I was told by Sytners that MSports models are are outselling SE models by a ratio of atleast 2:1.

The MSport models are better value for money, and do justice to the concept of a sports coupe, I think the SE models look way too plain - no WOW factor.

IDrive is way too complex, if the geeks at BMW had there way, may be a full keyboard and a would be thrown in too!!!!!

[squeezebm]

EXCELLENT write up and thanks for taking the time to "help" out the would be buyer i'm sure it will be apreciated

of course you could have just said the M SPORT pisses all over the old man SE

[dxb335d]

All 335d SE have the sports suspension stock and sports seats.

I actually think the 230's make the SE look nicer than the E92 M-sport. But then again i am biased. i see M-Sports and think they look really good, look back at the DXB and think she looks better. She too has the shadow line than adorns all M-sports and in a colour Unavailable to the M-sport makes her just as special.

Carlos

p.s, if it aint got a 3,5 or a 6 at the end, a BMW should not be an M///

[CrimsonRedE93]

Really detailed and informative, great stuff , never driven an M myself but I do agree that the supension in the SE is an odd compromise and doesn't really know if it's supposed to be comfotable or sporty.

I was concerned that the M may be a little too hard initially after moving from a car with much softer suspension and the extra cost of the M didn't seem worth it as I was on a Budget.

I am sure this will be a great insight for a lot of people

[Oli]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

All 335d SE have the sports suspension stock and sports seats.

I actually think the 230's make the SE look nicer than the E92 M-sport. But then again i am biased. i see M-Sports and think they look really good, look back at the DXB and think she looks better. She too has the shadow line than adorns all M-sports and in a colour Unavailable to the M-sport makes her just as special.

Carlos

p.s, if it aint got a 3,5 or a 6 at the end, a BMW should not be an M///

I knew you'd pop up to say how much better your SE is than an M Sport

[Oli]

Oh good write up by the way

[mjh93sa]

Thanks for the comments guys.

I guess I should have made it clearer that I was comparing the E91 330d SE / Msport.

Carlos, the 335 is a bit of a special case because it gets some of the sports kit thrown in, and the looks of the E92/3 are so different to the E90/1 that the styling question is completely different. However, I would stand by the comment that the SE spec looks sporting in an understated way, whereas the MSports look more aggresively sporting be it an E90, 91, 92 or 93.

[dxb335d]

Originally Posted by OliH

I knew you'd pop up to say how much better your SE is than an M Sport

Just like you think your hearse looks better than other hearses really mate.

SE is not supposed to be better. M-sport is. The 335's can cut it quite easily with the Msport crowd. Man just look at those rims (230's)

there will always be much love between us oli

[M3-FAST]

M-Sport all the way!!!!!!

They only put 5 spoke 230's on Carlos, cos all the arthritic old men who crave chrome trim so buy an SE can't clean all the spokes on the 225M's (actually just jealous cos my 225M's are a git to clean!)

Seriously tho.....I do prefer the hint of sportyness that the M style kit brings to the 3 series over the stock SE trim.

Each to there own tho!!! World would be a boring place......

[dxb335d]

Originally Posted by redE93cab

M-Sport all the way!!!!!!

They only put 6 spoke 230's on Carlos, cos all the arthritic old men who crave chrome trim so buy an SE can't clean all the spokes on the 225M's (actually just jealous cos my 225M's are a git to clean!)

Seriously tho.....I do prefer the hint of sportyness that the M style kit brings to the 3 series over the stock SE trim.

Each to there own tho!!! World would be a boring place......

LOL

[ShereKhan]

That's a brillian write up. I thought I was reading a motoring journal at one point!

I defo agree that the M sport has that aggressive look (which I love by the way). If I had known at the time that I could have sports seats specified on the SE I would have gone SE route.

MSport wheel and gear stick do feel meatier than normal SE spec. When I had a E91 SE it didn't feel like I was holding anything.

Also agree about the Pirelli's. Had them on a courtesy 120d Sport scared the life out of me tramlining on the M4 in the wet.

[networkguy]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

All 335d SE have the sports suspension stock and sports seats.

On the 2 door maybe but I am not sure that statement holds true on the rest.

[dxb335d]

Originally Posted by networkguy

On the 2 door maybe but I am not sure that statement holds true on the rest.

Maybe they dont on the others but deffo on E92 tho

[NFS]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

Maybe they dont on the others but deffo on E92 tho

I bet you wish you had an m-sport Carlos.

I think it keeps you awake at night.

[scotw]

Good write up I did wonder about the M-sport, in the end spending more than the upgrade money on options for an SE, which financially may not be the best move (ah well) but did allow me a custom car.

I was temped, in the end I found I didn't like the smaller steering wheel or the more aggressive front look, but I did like the better alloys and thought the interior seats were fantastic. Not as easy choice

[networkguy]

Originally Posted by scotw

Good write up I did wonder about the M-sport, in the end spending more than the upgrade money on options for an SE, which financially may not be the best move (ah well) but did allow me a custom car.

I was temped, in the end I found I didn't like the smaller steering wheel or the more aggressive front look, but I did like the better alloys and thought the interior seats were fantastic. Not as easy choice

I was in the same situation.

The 335 came with a different steering wheel anyway so that was one less thing to worry about.

My previous car was a "sports" model so had the big wheels with low profile tyres and VERY hard suspension. On longer cross country journeys, that was simple too much. Of course I could have added the sports suspension to the SE for £270 but I chose not too. Even in SE guise, the car is head and shoulders over anything else in the class.

But beyond those 2 things, everything else (the body kit, M trim and so on) seems to be cosmetic and does not add to the driving experience.

And lets be honest here. Many M sport drivers are not skilled enough in their driving to get that extra little bit out of the car over an SE anyway.

So I chose not to pay the £1250 (ish) for what was little more than a body kit and have a car that I would enjoy being in.

[Oli]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

Just like you think your hearse looks better than other hearses really mate.

SE is not supposed to be better. M-sport is. The 335's can cut it quite easily with the Msport crowd. Man just look at those rims (230's)

there will always be much love between us oli

As usual you haven't read correctly before engaging typing finger - tut tut

The write up is between SE and M sport E90/91's, and you jump in defending the coupe which is a different car all together, as they spec sports seats and suspension as standard, whereas they dont in the E91. Didn't you also write somewhere recently the Hotcoupe's M Sport car was now your favourite coupe now, even more so than Peppernicks(SE)

And if we're on the subject of my 'hearse' did you see my signature below - ha ha , so yes better looking than all the other 'hearses' out there, and faster too...........

[Bumps]

Matt, excellent write-up. Stacks of useful info

[creepy coupe]

Fantastic and articulate write up, you have covered the differences very well, which should be a great help to the potential undecided buyer.

Just a small point, the M sport comes with the dark roof lining and Le Mans blue is only available on M sport.

[Bumps]

Originally Posted by creepy coupe

Fantastic and articulate write up, you have covered the differences very well, which should be a great help to the potential undecided buyer.

Just a small point, the M sport comes with the dark roof lining and Le Mans blue is only available on M sport.

Ah yes - good point. The anthracite roof lining (option on SE) makes a huge difference to some interior colour schemes. LMB is very common though...

[creepy coupe]

Originally Posted by Bumps

. LMB is very common though...

That's because it's so nice.