[BEE35i]

Hi All,

I have a JB4 V2 and the usual mods, TBE and intake..

Anyone else running an e85 blend?

I hear that I just need to buy the flex fuel plug from bms and its good to go e30 to e50 on map5 with jb4.

All my other cars have run straight e85 so I wouldn't mind going down that path either, anyone else running 100% e85? I would like to see some results before upgrading pump etc.

[weehe126]

You need flex fule wires, and no you cant run 100% E85 with out a lot of fueling upgrades. There are several threads on this.

[Jsoboti]

search function

[JETmn]

Get the flex fuel wires, run E30, enjoy another 30hp.

[tkong]

Originally Posted by JETmn

Get the flex fuel wires, run E30, enjoy another 30hp.

If you get the flex fuel wires run at least E40-E50. But check your logs.

[JETmn]

Originally Posted by tkong

If you get the flex fuel wires run at least E40-E50. But check your logs.

There is no reason to run E50, you can't use the octane anyway as the stock turbo is too small. Most people cannot run E50 safely.

[UMich_335i]

Most people can't run e50 because they don't upgrade their lpfp. There are plenty of people, like myself, who run e50 to 100% e85 with an inline pump or complete lpfp bucket replacement from SteveAZ with a custom tune to take advantage of the added octane.

[JETmn]

Originally Posted by UMich_335i

Most people can't run e50 because they don't upgrade their lpfp. There are plenty of people, like myself, who run e50 to 100% e85 with an inline pump or complete lpfp bucket replacement from SteveAZ with a custom tune to take advantage of the added octane.

And if you read the OP you will see he was asking about just adding a FF plug only and you are also in the N55 section. The turbo can't put out the boost to take advantage of the extra octane of E50+, just like I stated. You also can't run 100% E85 even with a LPFP upgrade on an N55.

[tkong]

Originally Posted by JETmn

There is no reason to run E50, you can't use the octane anyway as the stock turbo is too small. Most people cannot run E50 safely.

E30 is not maxing out the turbo. You need at least E40. As long as you check your logs, there's nothing wrong with running that percentage of e85. But to the OP, there is no reason to run higher than E50.

[BEE35i]

Looks great! Im currently on about 320hp with no meth or e85.

[JETmn]

Originally Posted by tkong

E30 is not maxing out the turbo. You need at least E40. As long as you check your logs, there's nothing wrong with running that percentage of e85. But to the OP, there is no reason to run higher than E50.

He isn't in California starting off with watered down 91 oct :P The rest of the world does not need E50 for a stock turbo car. I can run 19psi on E30 and saw no difference going to E45. Above E45 I start to run in to fuel issues on occasion. I haven't maxed out the Pure yet, we will see if that will want more octane or not. I mix with 93 oct like the OP would have available in Australia.

The dyno charts are also from 2 different cars (one auto and one DCT) with different levels of mods. You can't compare those 2.

[tkong]

Originally Posted by JETmn

He isn't in California starting off with watered down 91 oct :P The rest of the world does not need E50 for a stock turbo car. I can run 19psi on E30 and saw no difference going to E45. Above E45 I start to run in to fuel issues on occasion. I haven't maxed out the Pure yet, we will see if that will want more octane or not. I mix with 93 oct like the OP would have available in Australia.

The dyno charts are also from 2 different cars (one auto and one DCT) with different levels of mods. You can't compare those 2.

Ahhhh with 93 it's a different story. 91 is all we get here . And I didn't post the dynos to be compared to one another. They are there to show that E40-E50 is used to get the most out of our cars (when paired with 91).

[SteveAZ]

A few things...

A 2011 335i (N55) can be flashed via Cobb.

In order to run JB4 map 7 one of the requirements is a minimum of 100 octane.

Ethanol burns cooler than gasoline

We have quite a few N55's cars running E50+

We always recommend logging YOUR car as YRMV

Here are 2 logs for reference...both logs were taken from the same 2013 N55 as we verified the fuel system and performance.

Map 7 was notably faster as you can see for yourself.

Here is Map 5 on E40



and map 7 on E60

[JETmn]

Not saying the LPFP doesn't help, it obviously does, but I think a large part of the difference is Map 7 vs map 5. I have come to not like map 5 all that much. I do plan on getting one of your pumps in the next year.

What else could account for the difference in the 2 runs? Boost is basically identical, so the higher E isn't helping hold higher boost (both runs are quite low for boost). The E40 run looks to run a little richer (both are too lean for my taste, 14.x @ peak torque) so that is counterintuitive. For a true test I think using map 6 would be the best as you can set your own boost targets. Was E40 ever run on Map 7?

[mashimarho]

Personally, I run 40% e85 and 60% 93 octane.

[SteveAZ]

Originally Posted by JETmn

Not saying the LPFP doesn't help, it obviously does, but I think a large part of the difference is Map 7 vs map 5. I have come to not like map 5 all that much. I do plan on getting one of your pumps in the next year.

What else could account for the difference in the 2 runs? Boost is basically identical, so the higher E isn't helping hold higher boost (both runs are quite low for boost). The E40 run looks to run a little richer (both are too lean for my taste, 14.x @ peak torque) so that is counterintuitive. For a true test I think using map 6 would be the best as you can set your own boost targets. Was E40 ever run on Map 7?

And I'm not saying the LPFP does help with power because it doesn't at all. However you are absolutely right...it's a is largely due to it being map 5 versus map 7 and my point was that you should be running E60+ to run map 7.

We actually get this question a lot..."how much horsepower will I gain by going to Stage 2". Our answer is simple...absolutely zero.

An upgraded LPFP supports more fuel demand when making more power or running larger quantities of ethanol, but until you have exceeded your current LPFP's ability to supply sufficient quantities of fuel at the required pressures...it has absolutely nothing to do with how much power you can make.

In both those logs the HPFP was holding fine and was not a contributing factor. It may have been an issue had they not been running a Stage 2 LPFP though, we don't know for sure because they had taken that precautionary step prior to running E60.

Boost alone does not equal more power, nor does timing alone. We get that a lot too. However, look at the timing curve between the two. This is where octane starts playing a part because when the DME starts seeing knock or detonation, it begins pulling timing. In addition when the IAT's get too high, it starts pulling timing. However when you are running more ethanol, IAT's become less of a concern as ethanol is very detonation resistant...pre-ignition...not so much. This is partly why we run colder plugs with a smaller gap, we can get away with that with higher concentrations of ethanol because it doesn't require as much of a spark to ignite, but if that spark plug starts glowing red...then pre-ignition is an issue. So much of this comes down to tuning and setup.

I realize I've jumped around a bit and thrown our a bunch of little tidbits of information but really my whole point here is not to lecture or tell anybody what they can and can't do. It's merely to point out that every situation is different in a multitude of ways. Not only in regards to what is actually occurring but how people are interpreting it. That is why we like to see logs before drawing any conclusions.

Also, simply running map 6 to get around some of this because you can crank up the boost on less octane...doesn't mean it's the right thing to do...again, this should really be done by a tuner or somebody that knows what to look for.

I hope you don't feel as though I'm telling you what you're doing or saying is wrong, it may be working great for you. But simply telling others "this is what works for me...it'll work for you" could potentially mislead them. We get a lot of people that will run semi-aggressive and aggressive maps and not log because they have seen that others can do it...so all is good right? Not really and then what happen?...they come on here and say they are getting misfires to which they get canned responses...change your plugs, coils, or injectors...or maybe..."your HPFP is going bad".

Hope this all makes sense.

[JETmn]

Originally Posted by SteveAZ

I hope you don't feel as though I'm telling you what you're doing or saying is wrong, it may be working great for you. But simply telling others "this is what works for me...it'll work for you" could potentially mislead them. We get a lot of people that will run semi-aggressive and aggressive maps and not log because they have seen that others can do it...so all is good right? Not really and then what happen?...they come on here and say they are getting misfires to which they get canned responses...change your plugs, coils, or injectors...or maybe..."your HPFP is going bad".

Hope this all makes sense.

I don't think anyone in this thread was talking about tunes at all. Max E content needed to max out a stock turbo and max E content the stock fueling system can take was. I have seen several people get misfire issues on stock turbo/fuel system once they go over E45. I have also seen no gains myself with the stock turbo going over ~E30. I run E35 normally. Now that the roads are finally clearing off I will be trying to max out the Pure this month and we will see if that needs any more octane. Unfortunately the E85 mix here will now be down to E70 and that 30% will be crappy gas, so I am not going to be too confident in what I find right now.

[SteveAZ]

Originally Posted by JETmn

I don't think anyone in this thread was talking about tunes at all.

It's all part of the equation...

[JETmn]

Originally Posted by SteveAZ

It's all part of the equation...

Not really since we are talking stock JB4 maps. There isn't much flexibility there.

[SteveAZ]

Originally Posted by JETmn

Not really since we are talking stock JB4 maps. There isn't much flexibility there.

Map 5 is a tune, map 7 is a tune...and map 7 requires more octane. In addition as I said a 2011 335i can be flash tuned. The OP said they wanted to run more ethanol and as you noticed there was a pretty good difference between map 5 and map 7 on the N55 example I shared.

I understand that your experience has been that YOU didn't see any gains from higher percentages of ethanol. However that isn't every bodies experience and in order to see those gains you have to run a tune that takes advantage of it. Simply maxing out the stock turbos doesn't mean you have Max's out the car's potential.

Steve

[JETmn]

Originally Posted by SteveAZ

Map 5 is a tune, map 7 is a tune...and map 7 requires more octane. In addition as I said a 2011 335i can be flash tuned. The OP said they wanted to run more ethanol and as you noticed there was a pretty good difference between map 5 and map 7 on the N55 example I shared.

I understand that your experience has been that YOU didn't see any gains from higher percentages of ethanol. However that isn't every bodies experience and in order to see those gains you have to run a tune that takes advantage of it. Simply maxing out the stock turbos doesn't mean you have Max's out the car's potential.

Steve

Steve, you seem to be taking this way farther than what the OP wanted. He is talking stock turbo with a JB4. Nothing is said about an upgraded turbo or Cobb tune. With the JB4 they are all stock tunes, so there is no taking it further than others. I have maxed out map5, so that is about as far as you can go. Remember this is N55 too, we don't have nearly as many options or HP potential with the stock turbo.

[SteveAZ]

Originally Posted by BEE35i

Hi All,

I have a JB4 V2 and the usual mods, TBE and intake..

Anyone else running an e85 blend?

I hear that I just need to buy the flex fuel plug from bms and its good to go e30 to e50 on map5 with jb4.

All my other cars have run straight e85 so I wouldn't mind going down that path either, anyone else running 100% e85? I would like to see some results before upgrading pump etc.

Originally Posted by JETmn

With the JB4 they are all stock tunes, so there is no taking it further than others. I have maxed out map5, so that is about as far as you can go. Remember this is N55 too, we don't have nearly as many options or HP potential with the stock turbo.

I think you're confusing "Tune" and "Flash". Obviously a "Flash" other than stock, is a tune as well.

The JB4 is also a tune, when you change maps, you are changing your tune but you are not changing your flash. You are manipulating timing, trims, boost, WGDC, and a variety of other things based on the map you choose.

Also, for some people, running 100% E85 becomes a matter of convenience or economics, although due to the fuel mileage economics isn't usually much of a reality.

The OP inquired about higher percentages of ethanol all the way up to 100%. Your point was that they didn't need to because in your experience there were no horsepower gains above E30. The OP didn't inquire about horsepower gains it was about ethanol percentages.

However, you are right...this has become kind of drawn out with too many clarifications that can make it confusing. My apologies if you don't find the information useful.

If anybody has any other questions they can PM me, contact Wedge, Terry, Jake, Dzenno, Tony, etc......we're all here to help.