please explain SMG

luckyD · 01-15-2008, 10:36 AM

can any one here with EXPIRIENCE explain how big is the difference betwen ZF6 trasmision that are used in 335 and SMG from new M3 or M5 what would be the biggest difference

thank you

Trill335 · 01-15-2008, 11:10 AM

One is an actual Manual Transmission. The other is an Automatic transmission with a Torque converter. This is quite simply the big difference.

e46e92love · 01-15-2008, 11:16 AM

One shifts in 80 milliseconds (SMG) the other in 100 milliseconds (ZF). So yes, there are major mechanical differences but the difference in performance is closer that people realize.

BTW, I love SMG.

Couch · 01-15-2008, 11:17 AM

SMG is similar to Ferrari's F1 and Lambo's E-Gear. The best way to explain it, is that it is a manual tranny with an auto option.

As trill said, the other is an automatic tranny with a "manual" option. Torque converter is present.

slcsteve · 01-15-2008, 11:23 AM

This link gives some brief descriptions:

http://www.autozine.org/technical_sc...ear_manual.htm

Had SMG in my M3 and have Auto in my 335 E92. Like them both but much less drama driving the 335.

Trill335 · 01-15-2008, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e46e92love

One shifts in 80 milliseconds (SMG) the other in 100 milliseconds (ZF). So yes, there are major mechanical differences but the difference in performance is closer that people realize.

BTW, I love SMG.

The SMG III cars (M5/M6) shift a bit quicker than the 80 milisecond SMG II cars. IIRC it's somewhere in the 65 milisecond range.

I had an E46 M3 with the SMG II system. Fun transmission

zimzimma · 01-15-2008, 11:36 AM

Is the auto/manumatic in the 335 really that similar to the SMG system?

Does anyone know if it is downshift-forward upshift-back...because thats the way it should be, just like the SMG.

anyone have a pic?

halfmonkey · 01-15-2008, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luckyD

can any one here with EXPIRIENCE explain how big is the difference betwen ZF6 trasmision that are used in 335 and SMG from new M3 or M5 what would be the biggest difference

thank you

**********
SMG in the pervious generation 3 series and m3 are transmission without a torque converter. They are a "normal" manual transmission but instead of a third clutch pedal that you have to press and depress, the clutch "pedal" is hydralically operated. Therefore, it's a true manual transmission but it's clutch pedal is either operated when you pull the shift levels on the sterring wheel or press/pull the shift lever in the console. The SMG has an "automatic" mode and all this means is that instead of you pulling and pressing to determine when to shift (hydralically operate the clutch), the on board computer determines when to shift based on various inputs.

The ZF6 is an automatic transmission is a "normal" automatic transmission in that it has a torque converter as others have mentioned. It has a "manual" mode and all this allows is for you to HELP determine when to shift instead of letting the on board computer decide that for you. The new 335 has a feature that blips the throttle on down shifts but no matter how close these new Steptronic transmission try to emulate a true manual trnasmission, they will always be an automatic transmission.

Regarding the new M3, these will not have the SMG transmission but will instead have the new DCT (dual clutch transmission). The DCT is a true manual transmission in that it has a clutch and not a torque converter. The feature about the DCT is that where the SMG and all other manual transmissions allow only one gear to be engaged at a time, the DCT will allow 2 gears to be "engaged" at a time. This is the basic premise to this transmission and without writing a whole bunch to explain this, the main benefits to this new transmission will be even a further reduction in shift times and a smoother shift feel. No more or a big reduction in jerkiness like when someone doesn't know how to drive a manual transmission. I believe this transmission was first developed from Formula 1. I believe if you go to www.f1.com and do a search, you'll find some information on this transmission.

Hope this helps.

slcsteve · 01-15-2008, 11:41 AM

Unlike the SMG, the 335 paddles on either side serve both the upshift and downshift functions whereas the M3 uses the right paddle to upshift and the left one to downshift.

BMWDAD · 01-15-2008, 11:41 AM

Best auto transmission is the dsg the Audi/VW products. EV0 X looks like it is the same dual clutch system used in the Audi/VW also.

I have not driven the Ferrari's auto, but I have used the SMG II in the BMW's.

If the 335i coupe had DSG I would have gotten it, but ended up with a 6mt after driving the auto.

hl0m4n · 01-15-2008, 11:43 AM

ill keep it short right now, mad tired.

http://m3smg.com/tech_info.html

!Xoible · 01-15-2008, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zimzimma

Is the auto/manumatic in the 335 really that similar to the SMG system?

Does anyone know if it is downshift-forward upshift-back...because thats the way it should be, just like the SMG.

anyone have a pic?

no! one uses a torque converter and is automatic, and the SMG is dry-clutch based transmission. it's a manual transmission kinda but operated by a computer instead of your leg left.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequential_manual_gearbox
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiptronic

purplewidow · 01-15-2008, 11:45 AM

it's funny even a tech journalist who writes reviews on audi's and vw's says the bmw zf in the 335 is deffinitly better than audi/vw's highly touted dsg system...with that i thought we don't have any confirmation if the new m3 will have a new varient of the smg system or a new dsg type dual clutch system... either way they need to find a way to put a moon-roof on that baby!!! i Hate the fact that they don't even have it as an option!!!! just like how so many hated the e46 m3 comp package cause it didn't have cruise control!!! i Hate cruise control anyway but i love moon/sun roofs!!! they are a must!!! but damn guys are getting 4.2-.3 0-60 on the new m3... hell i think road and track even had a 4.1... and a 12.3 1/4 something super close maybe .1 off eitherway!!! the new m3 is gonna be a beast but as my 335 is my daily driver if i get an m3 it will as well and without a moonroof and an suto clutch type system... i am lost.. no way in hell i driving a manual as a daily driver!!!! not with driving to Michigan for a couple months for work!!! no way in hell!!!! esp with Chicago traffic!!! and my sciatica in my left leg is the main killer!!! anyways!! hope the new m3 eventually comes with a moonroof though i doubt it and i hope the new auto system whichever one iit is comes out soon so i have a great tough decision to make!!!!

!Xoible · 01-15-2008, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMWDAD

Best auto transmission is the dsg the Audi/VW products. EV0 X looks like it is the same dual clutch system used in the Audi/VW also.

I have not driven the Ferrari's auto, but I have used the SMG II in the BMW's.

If the 335i coupe had DSG I would have gotten it, but ended up with a 6mt after driving the auto.

i'd hold that thought until OP gets a straight answer to his question first then talk about something else

DSG mechanically is very different from SMG and tiptronic. it's wet clutch, the clutch plates are sliced in pieces, computer does some artificial intelligence to *guess* what the next gear is.
it takes 8 millisecond to shift if it guesses right, if it guesses wrong it takes about 1/2 a second to shift, makes it real slow

people dont realize it can be real slow too... *sometimes*. they think it's always faster

e46e92love · 01-15-2008, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zimzimma

Is the auto/manumatic in the 335 really that similar to the SMG system?

Does anyone know if it is downshift-forward upshift-back...because thats the way it should be, just like the SMG.

anyone have a pic?

Yes, forward=downshift and back=upshift.

e46e92love · 01-15-2008, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trill335

The SMG III cars (M5/M6) shift a bit quicker than the 80 milisecond SMG II cars. IIRC it's somewhere in the 65 milisecond range.

I had an E46 M3 with the SMG II system. Fun transmission

I don't think you are correct on that.........but I could be wrong.

!Xoible · 01-15-2008, 11:48 AM

SMG III does not feel anywhere near that fast IMO. feels much slower than 335's steptronic

exo-ak-dk · 01-15-2008, 11:49 AM

Uhh god i would like to have smg in my car !!!

335i4u2nv · 01-15-2008, 11:53 AM

im still confused... so SMG is still a auto?

Trill335 · 01-15-2008, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 335i4u2nv

im still confused... so SMG is still a auto?

Read my posts and take it as the gospel...SMG is an automated Manual transmission.

335i4u2nv · 01-15-2008, 12:06 PM

ohh wow! so there's still a clutch and all but its a dual clutch and blah blah blah... nice

Trill335 · 01-15-2008, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e46e92love

I don't think you are correct on that.........but I could be wrong.

You don't think I'm correct on what? You might want to research the transmissions a bit more.

01-15-2008, 10:36 AM	#1
luckyD Second Lieutenant 32 Rep 298 Posts Drives: 335 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: east coast iTrader: (-1)	please explain SMG can any one here with EXPIRIENCE explain how big is the difference betwen ZF6 trasmision that are used in 335 and SMG from new M3 or M5 what would be the biggest difference thank you
	Appreciate 0 Tweet Quote

01-15-2008, 11:10 AM	#2
Trill335 انا خارج الكلبه 10 Rep 401 Posts Drives: E92 335 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Auburn iTrader: (0)	One is an actual Manual Transmission. The other is an Automatic transmission with a Torque converter. This is quite simply the big difference. __________________
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-15-2008, 11:16 AM	#3
e46e92love Brigadier General 254 Rep 3,306 Posts Drives: e92 ///M3; X3 (wife's) Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: The East Side of Things iTrader: (0)	One shifts in 80 milliseconds (SMG) the other in 100 milliseconds (ZF). So yes, there are major mechanical differences but the difference in performance is closer that people realize. BTW, I love SMG. __________________ "...it's not about the money and not about the brand of the car, it's about handling,performance and passion......And that, no other car has all together like an M3........when you talk about the most complete car the M is invincible." --Tony Kanaan.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-15-2008, 11:17 AM	#4
Couch Colonel 149 Rep 2,900 Posts Drives: E92 335i Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Houston iTrader: (0) Garage List 2007 E92 335i [0.00]	SMG is similar to Ferrari's F1 and Lambo's E-Gear. The best way to explain it, is that it is a manual tranny with an auto option. As trill said, the other is an automatic tranny with a "manual" option. Torque converter is present.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-15-2008, 11:23 AM	#5
slcsteve New Member 0 Rep 20 Posts Drives: '02 M3 Vert/'07 E92 335 Cpe Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Arlington, Texas iTrader: (0)	This link gives some brief descriptions: http://www.autozine.org/technical_sc...ear_manual.htm Had SMG in my M3 and have Auto in my 335 E92. Like them both but much less drama driving the 335.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-15-2008, 11:36 AM	#7
zimzimma Second Lieutenant 50 Rep 225 Posts Drives: mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: mtl iTrader: (0)	Is the auto/manumatic in the 335 really that similar to the SMG system? Does anyone know if it is downshift-forward upshift-back...because thats the way it should be, just like the SMG. anyone have a pic?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-15-2008, 11:41 AM	#9
slcsteve New Member 0 Rep 20 Posts Drives: '02 M3 Vert/'07 E92 335 Cpe Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Arlington, Texas iTrader: (0)	Unlike the SMG, the 335 paddles on either side serve both the upshift and downshift functions whereas the M3 uses the right paddle to upshift and the left one to downshift.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-15-2008, 11:41 AM	#10
BMWDAD Captain 112 Rep 755 Posts Drives: 2017 Porsche Macan Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Richmond, Va. iTrader: (0)	Best auto transmission is the dsg the Audi/VW products. EV0 X looks like it is the same dual clutch system used in the Audi/VW also. I have not driven the Ferrari's auto, but I have used the SMG II in the BMW's. If the 335i coupe had DSG I would have gotten it, but ended up with a 6mt after driving the auto.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-15-2008, 11:43 AM	#11
hl0m4n Major General 2439 Rep 5,627 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: NY iTrader: (58)	ill keep it short right now, mad tired. http://m3smg.com/tech_info.html
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-15-2008, 11:45 AM	#13
purplewidow Lieutenant Colonel 54 Rep 1,928 Posts Drives: e92 335 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Chicago iTrader: (2)	it's funny even a tech journalist who writes reviews on audi's and vw's says the bmw zf in the 335 is deffinitly better than audi/vw's highly touted dsg system...with that i thought we don't have any confirmation if the new m3 will have a new varient of the smg system or a new dsg type dual clutch system... either way they need to find a way to put a moon-roof on that baby!!! i Hate the fact that they don't even have it as an option!!!! just like how so many hated the e46 m3 comp package cause it didn't have cruise control!!! i Hate cruise control anyway but i love moon/sun roofs!!! they are a must!!! but damn guys are getting 4.2-.3 0-60 on the new m3... hell i think road and track even had a 4.1... and a 12.3 1/4 something super close maybe .1 off eitherway!!! the new m3 is gonna be a beast but as my 335 is my daily driver if i get an m3 it will as well and without a moonroof and an suto clutch type system... i am lost.. no way in hell i driving a manual as a daily driver!!!! not with driving to Michigan for a couple months for work!!! no way in hell!!!! esp with Chicago traffic!!! and my sciatica in my left leg is the main killer!!! anyways!! hope the new m3 eventually comes with a moonroof though i doubt it and i hope the new auto system whichever one iit is comes out soon so i have a great tough decision to make!!!!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-15-2008, 11:48 AM	#17
!Xoible Banned 906 Rep 46,010 Posts Drives: .... Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: . iTrader: (4) Garage List 2008 M3 [4.00] 2007 335i [9.00] 2008 528i [8.00] 2006 Infiniti - G35 ... [8.00]	SMG III does not feel anywhere near that fast IMO. feels much slower than 335's steptronic
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-15-2008, 11:49 AM	#18
exo-ak-dk Black Magic Wheels - BMW 38 Rep 1,090 Posts Drives: E90 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Denmark iTrader: (0)	Uhh god i would like to have smg in my car !!!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-15-2008, 11:53 AM	#19
335i4u2nv Colonel 73 Rep 2,765 Posts Drives: 335i e9O sL0w Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: im right behind u iTrader: (0)	im still confused... so SMG is still a auto?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-15-2008, 12:06 PM	#21
335i4u2nv Colonel 73 Rep 2,765 Posts Drives: 335i e9O sL0w Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: im right behind u iTrader: (0)	ohh wow! so there's still a clutch and all but its a dual clutch and blah blah blah... nice
	Appreciate 0 Quote