[runbyu1]

I've read stuff from when the Wagner Intercooler first came out, but now that we're a couple years down the road I'd like to know if people felt their purchase was worth it. Let's hear it!

[TrAcK TRaP]

if you really live at top of the mountains and cold there you don't need it

[demon]

Not an expert on turbo diesels but I do have a tuner back ground - sort of.
I have heavily modded a Mitsubishi Eclipse 4g63 turbo and the turbo principals are the same.

The smaller the turbo, the harder it has to work, the more heat it generates. So adding a larger intercooler helps - to a point. If the small turbo is working hard enough to generate excess heat it is most likely operating outside of it's efficiency range, so Moving to larger turbo would be a better choice. Some guys actually hurt performance by adding too large of an intercooler to a small turbo. A number of turbo drag cars do not even use intercoolers to save weight. Others will use an intercooler in a cooler full of ice. There are also water sprayer kits that mount in front of your intercooler to mist cool them.

The reason to use a larger intercooler is "heat soak". If you are running the car in boost for long periods of time the intercooler can not cool off between boost sessions. That is when you need a larger intercooler. Go for the drive you think you want to do, track, drag strip, road race or hard highway, whatever you think you want to do. Then jump out of the car and touch the intercooler, if it is not noticeably warmer than the outside air - you probably do not need to go larger.

The best an intercooler can do is bring intake air temperature down to ambient air temperature. If you are in a 120 degree desert you are still going to get 120 degree air in the engine. Unless you are running ice on your intercooler.

Simplified explanation but pretty close. I would also be interested to hear real world experiences of a 335D owner with larger intercooler.

[Puerto Rican 335d]

I have the WAGNER IC and its great investment I live in a hot and humid climate Puerto Rico. i do recommend it for those who live in hotter states but the Northerner's need not this part ONLY if your racing besides that it would be a waste of your money.

demon I tend to differ on your remark "If you are in a 120 degree desert you are still going to get 120 degree air in the engine. Unless you are running ice on your intercooler." The WAGNER IC has proven itself time after time for me car does not heat soak unlike OEM IC.

I have done pre and Post dyno look them up amigos in the forum. the WAGNER IC is plug and play only problem you have to trim a little from the bottom of the back lip of the bumpre since this IC was performed on a euro 335d Touring Wagon which has a different bumper fascia we have thats all amigos!!

[Twilight1]

Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d

demon I tend to differ on your remark "If you are in a 120 degree desert you are still going to get 120 degree air in the engine. Unless you are running ice on your intercooler." The WAGNER IC has proven itself time after time for me car does not heat soak unlike OEM IC.
!

I think he stated that no matter what, your charge temp cannot be below ambient unless it's iced or sprayed.

I now have a Fiesta ST with a Cobb tuner. I run a Stage 3 map, that is supposed to have the bigger intercooler ,but in a Michigan winter my charge temps never go above 50 degrees. The guys on the ST forum, of course said I was going to blow my motor because I didn't spend 3K on "required" hardware. Now when warm weather comes back, I 'll return to stage 1.

On a side note, with the Cobb, you can have 5 different maps and have them switchable on the fly with the cruise control switch. Very cool!

[demon]

Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d

I have done pre and Post dyno look them up amigos in the forum.

OK here is what I found:
"I dynoed my car OEM and cranked 230 whp then we added the new version of RENNtech flash and we clocked 306 whp later two days later we mounted the WAGNER IC and we clocked 312 whp mind you the differance in weather both dynos were ran at around 7pm the first temp was 70-77degrees and wet, the second dyno was 90 degrees and hot and humid. "

So 6 hp difference ? That is well within the realm of dyno error.
I think a MUCH better investment would be meth....

RENNech - 76 hp now that IS impressive!

[kiel_dafo_kenyg_as]

I know... dumb question, but does the car have an air temp sensor at all and does it raise or lower the amount of fuel injected according to the temp?

[Ajs_435d]

Waste of time unless you live in hot humid conditions and are remapped and track the car.

The point here being consistent power instead of the occasional blat.

cheap alternative here i was going to try but didnt bother

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1071741

[runbyu1]

I would be getting the Wagner Intercooler mostly for MPG gains. I've heard others say they got a boost. A 2 mpg boost would pay for itself in a few years of driving for me, so if I can get an mpg boost and a bit more power and less heat soak it makes sense.

So, has anyone here seen an MPG improvement???

[AustinMsport]

Not to thread jack but I've come across quite a few posts of other 3 series (and I think one 335D) that swore they got a 1 mpg increase with Cyba scoops. $40. I think I'm gonna try them. Why not for $40.

[Si-M240i]

I have the Wagner and it was fitted after my initial remap. After about 50miles driving when it was fitted the difference was much more noticeable. It throttle response improved, especially for overtaking and the car pulled harder in the mid to upper range and was less asthmatic at higher revs.

I then had a straight though exhaust fitted but left the cats, DPF and EGR in place and got the remap tweaked by the same people (DMS) on the same rolling road. This resulted in me gaining a further 20 BHP and about 25 torque.

As far as I am concerned it is a very worthwhile mod. I have since fitted the Forge Charge pipe too and that improved throttle response still further

[2deerwhistlers]

Originally Posted by Austin335D

Not to thread jack but I've come across quite a few posts of other 3 series (and I think one 335D) that swore they got a 1 mpg increase with Cyba scoops. $40. I think I'm gonna try them. Why not for $40.

Scoops are a waste of time and money..

[dzlmoose]

Originally Posted by 2deerwhistlers

Scoops are a waste of time and money..

Scoops are pantie droppers.

[Puerto Rican 335d]

demon research a bit more I did a rerun a year later and got better results I believe I went up to 318 whp from 306

[demon]

Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d

demon research a bit more I did a rerun a year later and got better results I believe I went up to 318 whp from 306

your base after renntech was 306 according to the first time you ran it. So 12 hp gain total. Not bad but an expensive 12 hp. What other changes did you make in that year? Same dyno? Same temperature? Same driver?
Change any one of those and your comparison is not accurate. Did you log mileage before and after?

You live where it is hot and humid, most people would not even see that 12hp gain. On a track car you would notice it a lot more, because you are always in boost.

pardon me for being simple minded but gas law is PV=T.
When building pressure - boost - you increase volume and temperature goes up. But with no boost there is no temperature gain.
Cruising down the highway you are not building boost until you nail it to pass. My car is a street car and I am never in boost for more than seconds.
With just a larger intercooler and no other mods the average driver would not even notice the power difference.

People on this board are reporting from 30 hp up 60 hp by adding meth. If you are only looking for HP this is a better bang-for-the-buck. Plus it helps clean cbu.....

[Hoooper]

Originally Posted by demon

pardon me for being simple minded but gas law is PV=T.
When building pressure - boost - you increase volume and temperature goes up. But with no boost there is no temperature gain.
Cruising down the highway you are not building boost until you nail it to pass. My car is a street car and I am never in boost for more than seconds.
With just a larger intercooler and no other mods the average driver would not even notice the power difference.

You might be surprised how often you are in boost. This is not a hyped up high compression turbo 6/8 gasser that only hits 8 psi boost max and spends most of its time out of boost when not getting crazy. A lot of your drive around town, on the highway, etc. is in boost between 0-10 psi. Just going up mild hills on the highway at 70 mph I get into boost above 10 PSI.

Originally Posted by demon

People on this board are reporting from 30 hp up 60 hp by adding meth. If you are only looking for HP this is a better bang-for-the-buck. Plus it helps clean cbu.....

No doubt about that, you can build one heck of a meth system for the cost of the intercooler and make a lot more power. I dont think anyone who is considering meth should get the intercooler first. Then again, im not really sold on the intercooler to start with.

[dixy2k]

I got a CXracing intercooler and I am not aware of any improvements.
I did not dyno the car before and after the aftermarket i/c. Did not measure the temps before and after.
To me it is impossible to tell the difference. I am tuned, however. Again, no dyno before and after either.

[Puerto Rican 335d]

Demon go for the meth im happy with ic and trust weel worth the money. Its my choice

[Ajs_435d]

I monitor iats and they don't even get into decrement temperatures the stock intercooler is doing great for me, a simply change in correction factor on the dyno will give a fake increase if you compare it your original.

[demon]

Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d

Demon go for the meth im happy with ic and trust weel worth the money. Its my choice

As long as you are happy with it then it was the right choice.

I am just skeptical of vendors claims. I have read claims and reported results for cold air intakes and they are not worth the money.
I have a DTUK chip and they claim BOTH HP and MPG gains. The chip gives a lot more power than stock but my MPG went down instead of up. I have been logging mileage and will post my results at a later date.

In the tuner world there is an old joke that every sticker you add to your car gives you an extra 10 HP.

[Puerto Rican 335d]

demon claims were no given by WAGNER until confirmed later on, the 1st car that it was performed on was on a 335d Touring Wagon in Germany,same engine. My dyno runs were performed ALL on the same dyno place w the same driver the owner of the place temps were similar around same time at night 7pm. Like i stated car runs great i will give you an example i did a 160 mile roundtrip in the island and i went thru ONLY a quarter of a tank, now mind you I hv now hv a dpipe from Jess and 3" exhaust w 3" Y's into a sport mufflers w 4" exhaust I believe our cars hv the 16 gl tank so we can say a Qtr of a tank is 4 gallons or so you do the math amigo.

On the FAMOUS SCOOPS, I have them and tend to differ all of my amigos, cause they DONT have them, the scoops collect COLD AIR from the front of the car and NOT from the engine/radiator bay area, as far as HP I CANNOT say what gains are there but I can say that the car WILL get more umph when you step on it and will feel the differance, thats all i can say. ONLY one person here has been in my car and that is Pierre Louis when he came to PR on Vacation, he can attest what can my car do and he came before I added the dpipe and exhaust system

[Ajs_435d]

I have scoops I'd love to do a before and after or IATS but just left them.