[mammoo6]

Morning Guys,

So car was sent to the garage last week with an issue of slight turbo whining, when the small turbos been taken off you can see polishing on the inside (not deep scoring) but I sent it away anyway.

The warranty company has sent the turbo to a specialist and they've replied advising that the turbo hasn't failed however oil was found in the interior surface of both end housings.

They have said this could be down to engine breather issue, restriction on the oil return pipe or excessive crankcase pressure.

Now they've said that I could replace my turbo at my own expense however the chances are if the above fault isn't resolved then the new turbo will also have the same issue.

In the last 3 months I have replaced the seals on the red boost pipe, the seals on the turbos themselves (was replacing the exhaust manifold gasket at the time) and I also replaced the oil supply pipe for the turbo charger (part no 11427795971) as this looked to be leaking also.



Now I don't know if I'm getting mixed up but is the part number above the oil return pipe?

Also the breather was replaced around 12 months ago...



Need help guys... What to do next?


Cheers
Matthew

[mammoo6]

Would this kinda indicate its going to be the oil return pipe?

I'm thinking if it was blocked or partially blocked its going to back up the oil and then it would enter both turbo housings instead of just the one?... because the oil was found in both the small and large turbos.

Its part no 7 in the attached photo


Any input is appreciated guys, theres been over 150 views on this on the UK Forum and the Turbo forum but not replies.


Cheers again,
Matthew

[old grey steve]

Though mines a 335i I went through a warranty issue too



you can see above once stripped the contamination and as you can see the contamination goes on





When first viewed the outer housing didn't look too bad



but as the unit was broken down the coking of the internatls was clear to see. Warranty companys seem to take a dim view re turbo failure and will if reported with carbon build up or say seal failure reject the claim I'm afraid. Mine went all the way even mentioned who I worked for had Turbo Technics on my side to submit a report but they were not moving mine failed due to carbon deposits, yet the car had foolowed the BMW CBS service criteria to the latter(I hadn't had the car that long when mine let go thoug hhad done an oil service not long after it was purchased)

I see a lot of turbo's fail(this week we've done 2 one 525d and one 320d)they fail for a select number of reasons.

When inspected Matthew they usually come back with bearing failure or as you've discoved some scoring within again due to component failure. When you look into it you have to wind the tape back to how IMO BMW set their stall out in the first place.

Firstly CBS. You can stretch oil service intervals out on these cars to some serious mileages between services. The intervales are too long IMO way too long. You can have a main dealer serviced car thats been serviced according to best practice for 70000 miles plus and that all looks good in the book all the right stamps, but if you're servicing according to CBS as the car gets older it needs more attention, more regular oil services far more than the CBS screen will have you believe. If you obey the CBS info in later life you accelerate the wear the risk and the end result is what you've discoverd Matthew.

Secondly on the subject of breather we see a fair few diesels where it looks like air filter services have been done(though sometimes missed) as you should be carrying out air filter services as well as fuel filter service every 3rd oil service(on the majority of diesels)that comes up. We've seen sweating boost pipes that are missed by the dealers which are signs of the breather failing oil billows out coats the intercooler as you can see below



oil get thrown through the inlet and will find its way into places where it shouldn't be like past rhe swirl flaps coating the inlet manifold itself.




In a nut sheel the breathers missed by the dealer network, yet they sell the bloody thing we as an indy and I know this fact replace more breathers then the big dealership up the road as the parts deptarment sell more breathers to us than they supply their own workshop! On these cars IMO when you change the air filter you change the breaher and the older the car gets/more mileage it does I think you need to change the breather more often than say every 3rd oil serivce. Failure to change this causes as you know issues re crank case pressure oil contamination.

Thirdly some of the issues with these cars come down to the owner simply not allowing the car to idle down after a drive or allowing the engine to warm up befoe giving the car the beans. The moment you switch the engine off the oil pump stops oil stops circulating eventually it will coke up and you know the rest.

Another thing for me is the use the cars actaully have diesels and turbo's together don't work when driving in town for various reasons we see more lighly driven cars with failed turbo's than anything else when the turbo's are viewed they are susally coked up, scored nad in quite a few 320d's bearings have failed the shafts have so much end float that when in the car you can see sparks from the inlet turbine when checking the turbo on the car(the scoring you've expierienced).

You'll never stop a turbo wearing out its a part that will over time suffer from wear, careful maintence and due care will allow a turbo to go on but eventually they will wear out.

If you look at the turbo below this was from mememory a 530d all dealer maintained and from my archive records it had done around 80k





As you can see from the above the unit had completly let go this was a fully dealer serviced from day one the car had a breather that was billowing out oil the inlet was caked in oil plus leaking like you wouldn't beleive.

Its a sad fact Matthew that these things happen a turbo charger isn't on the standard scope servicing schedule, the breather valve isn't either(though it damn well should be) When you read the criteria regarding repalcing the turbocharger and we always follow this you always repalce the air filter, breather change all the associated oil feed pipes always that way should anything go awry you have covered everything the pipes on your picture diagram are from memory over £80+VAT to supply but if the cas sufferd turbo failure IMO they'll be contaminated and need replacing as they'll restrict oil flow.

[L1oydee]

Originally Posted by old grey steve

On these cars IMO when you change the air filter you change the breaher and the older the car gets/more mileage it does I think you need to change the breather more often than say every 3rd oil serivce.

Steve, is it just parts 5, 6, 7 & 8 that you recommend replacing with the air filter at service, the other parts look [from the diagram] like oil feed pipes?

Just had my full service inc air filter completed and don't want to scrimp on a few parts leaving me with a blown turbo and a big bill.

Ta.

[old grey steve]

Originally Posted by L1oydee

Steve, is it just parts 5, 6, 7 & 8 that you recommend replacing with the air filter at service, the other parts look [from the diagram] like oil feed pipes?

Just had my full service inc air filter completed and don't want to scrimp on a few parts leaving me with a blown turbo and a big bill.

Ta.

BMW do a complete pipe kit (I'm looking at one now for a 525D) along with the oil feed pipe the kits around £74+VAT for the 525D, they call items funny names occasionally but essentially moving forward over everything oil feed wise to protect your self its the only way

[mob17]

CBS is BS. Steve's right about the oil changes, i do one halfway through the CBS ones.

Steve, do you have the part number for that breather kit?

[old grey steve]

Originally Posted by mob17

CBS is BS. Steve's right about the oil changes, i do one halfway through the CBS ones.

Steve, do you have the part number for that breather kit?

Part number should be 11 12 7 809 512 the breather differs from the other 3 that work with the 318,320,325 and 330d's its smaller looks slightly different.

[windymissile]

Originally Posted by old grey steve

[/URL] .

That'll polish out!

WM

[mammoo6]

Thanks for the replies guys,

The turbo specialist is saying the the turbo is actually in pretty good condition although there is some signs of polishing, but they've said that they dont feel it requires replacement.

Its whistling but only a little when running.

I'm trying to address the oil issue, and then run the car for a while and then check it again in a few months to see if there is anymore contamination (turbos have been put in a chemical bath)


What would you recommend doing? Should I replace the return pipes first off?

One thing that got brought up with the garage is as far as they are aware the breather was only replaced once by the previous owner in around 5 years, I replaced it in December last year but what I was thinking is the oil that is there could have been caused by poor maintenance, and possibly there is no issues now.

Also when I replaced the seals on the boost pipe at the same time it was coated in oil, however when checked a few months back there was no issue this time around...

I dont want to be spending unesscesary money, but at the same time, I wanna make sure theres no issues with the car before I run it again.



A few guys on the turbo page were recommending catch cans... worthwhile? The right ups look like there doing a good job.

Also, I've had the DPf removed and an EGR delete already done however the dpf is still in place with no blanking plates, I've been advised to blank this off to avoid any further contamination however I was advised by the garage that this would be turned off and closed so there would be no need to blank.



Cheers again