[AWSAWS]

Have you guys seen this?

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/s...ack-2015-02-09

As far as I can see an E92 M3 has a lap time of 8:05. I'm not sure what kind of a time a FBO 335i might be able to post.

Is this a case of a light car that's good at braking and cornering or did they have some superstar driver to get this time?

[borinous]

All the OEM cars that boast these lap times will have specialist drivers either current or ex-racers or simular. It will also be a case of optimum track conditions the of the did the test on the same day the renualt still may have the quicker time? Im sure they do control the test enviroments to certain extend in terms of timing and runs and tyres etc but you cant control temperature and weather.

Small a light will help round the twisty stuff as it will get from point to point quicker whereas the heavier M3 will be marginally slower but would breeze past once its stretched it legs

[AWSAWS]

from some reviews i'm seeing of M3s and 1Ms I'm betting the car had very expensive tyres when it did the run also...

1M time, 8:15

[djgandy]

Those times are slow and very old. I think 7:50's have been done quite easily an e92 M3.

You don't want to be the guy that wrecked a brand new BMW on one of its first drives :P

[djgandy]

RS4/RS5 times recorded after than "official" M3 time are 10s faster. Now we all know that is unlikely!

This guy has done a 7:36. Slightly modified, but I don't think to the tune of 30 seconds. Tyres are the biggest difference I think though. Unless you do all cars on the same day it is hard to compare.

[gangzoom]

The current range of mega hot hatches look really really good fun, the Megane R I believe current holds the FWD ‘ring record at 7:54, which is really quick.

http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/29...wd_record.html

But these things are pretty bare, stripped down for light weight, Ohlins dampers, LSD, massive brakes, lighter battery, power to weight ratio 230 bhp/ton which isn’t far off a M3.

I use to a have Honda Integra R, which was the best of the previous gen of hot-hatches, had no radio/air con/minimal sound damping. Despite it only having 180bhp, AutoCar time it hitting 60mph at 5.5seconds!! Driving it was amazing, the steering was almost telepathic, and around a twist B road it really was unbelievably good fun…

But I sold it after 9 months, because sitting in a traffic jam on the M1 in a car with no air con/radio is not much fun, no matter how light weight/responsive the chassis is.

I went to look at a Megane 265 before I bought the 335i, 10 seconds spent sitting in the car reminded why I sold the Integra R, I didn’t even bother to wait for the sale man to come and talk to me. As a weekend toy I think these stripped down FWD hatches are great, but a day to day car, they are too compromised for a old man like me

Personally I rather have my 335i, which gets through a 200 mile grind on the M ways in plenty of luxury and comfort, but come Sunday morning can deliver 90% of the fun of my Integra R.

[AWSAWS]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

The current range of mega hot hatches look really really good fun, the Megane R I believe current holds the FWD ‘ring record at 7:54, which is really quick.

http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/29...wd_record.html

But these things are pretty bare, stripped down for light weight, Ohlins dampers, LSD, massive brakes, lighter battery, power to weight ratio 230 bhp/ton which isn’t far off a M3.

I use to a have Honda Integra R, which was the best of the previous gen of hot-hatches, had no radio/air con/minimal sound damping. Despite it only having 180bhp, AutoCar time it hitting 60mph at 5.5seconds!! Driving it was amazing, the steering was almost telepathic, and around a twist B road it really was unbelievably good fun…

But I sold it after 9 months, because sitting in a traffic jam on the M1 in a car with no air con/radio is not much fun, no matter how light weight/responsive the chassis is.

I went to look at a Megane 265 before I bought the 335i, 10 seconds spent sitting in the car reminded why I sold the Integra R, I didn’t even bother to wait for the sale man to come and talk to me. As a weekend toy I think these stripped down FWD hatches are great, but a day to day car, they are too compromised for a old man like me

Personally I rather have my 335i, which gets through a 200 mile grind on the M ways in plenty of luxury and comfort, but come Sunday morning can deliver 90% of the fun of my Integra R.

Hi Gangzoom,
I have a question for you actually regarding the aftermarket LSD for the 335i and I hope it makes sense.
Being that this is mechanical, will the LSD cut in before the single push DTC? i.e. Will you see less traction control cutting in with the LSD than without it or will the LSD really only be noticeable with the DTC/DSC fully off?

I realise that for a power slide all nanies would have to be off or DSC will start breaking on individual wheels. I just wonder if normal driving with DTC single push on is also better. I suspect it is.

Thanks

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by AWSAWS

Hi Gangzoom,
I have a question for you actually regarding the aftermarket LSD for the 335i and I hope it makes sense.
Being that this is mechanical, will the LSD cut in before the single push DTC? i.e. Will you see less traction control cutting in with the LSD than without it or will the LSD really only be noticeable with the DTC/DSC fully off?

I realise that for a power slide all nanies would have to be off or DSC will start breaking on individual wheels. I just wonder if normal driving with DTC single push on is also better. I suspect it is.

Thanks

I drive 90% of the time with TC fully on and you can fell the diff working when you put on the power around tight corners, before installing the Quaife LSD on any bumpy B road trying to put the power down resulted in the dash board lighting up like a X-mas tree. Frankly I was so shocked at how bad the traction is was stock I was at Birds having the LSD fitted with-in about 4 weeks of 335 ownership....If the Quaife LSD options didn't exist I dare to say I would have sold the 335 very very quickly.

The Quaife LSD seems to work beautifully with the DTC/DSC, single press still allows for some tail out action, and fully off is what you would expect. Not sure exactly how the electronic and the Quaife work together, but it does....As Chris Harris points out, its almost as though some people at BMW wanted to fit a LSD to the 335 stock

http://www.birdsauto.com/editorial/e...35i-april-2007

[mob17]

M Factory currently shipping a 335D LSD for $800. Good value if you can find someone to machine/fit it.

[AWSAWS]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

I drive 90% of the time with TC fully on and you can fell the diff working when you put on the power around tight corners, before installing the Quaife LSD on any bumpy B road trying to put the power down resulted in the dash board lighting up like a X-mas tree. Frankly I was so shocked at how bad the traction is was stock I was at Birds having the LSD fitted with-in about 4 weeks of 335 ownership....If the Quaife LSD options didn't exist I dare to say I would have sold the 335 very very quickly.

The Quaife LSD seems to work beautifully with the DTC/DSC, single press still allows for some tail out action, and fully off is what you would expect. Not sure exactly how the electronic and the Quaife work together, but it does....As Chris Harris points out, its almost as though some people at BMW wanted to fit a LSD to the 335 stock

http://www.birdsauto.com/editorial/e...35i-april-2007

Yes this is an option I truly want but it's obviously a fair amount of dough. I'd imagine the diff acts first as it's transferring power based on resistance where the electronics are only detecting wheel spin after it has occurred.

Must be great having the LSD. I often see the TC lighting up on the uneven corners like you say. I also get it alot even in a straight line with these cold wet days and the roads covered in dirt. The grit from these lorries salting the road makes it very slippery at times. It has been fun on these ice covered roads but I can feel a slide is not quite right with the open diff. The snap back is too aggressive.

BMW would definately want the LSD in the 335i if it wasn't for the M3. With the N54 twin turbo power plant they were already eroding M3 sales for sure. It was just too good as the 1M, new M3 and M4 have shown.

[RajB]

Weight is the biggest killer to lap times etc hence that Sub8 is a costly weight reduction to help achieve the time that was set. This is usually the case with most of the manufacturers as they start to remove bits to provide the reduced lap times and quicker car.

As for the lsd on the 335i, straight line it does nothing for cutting the dash from lighting up with the traction light bug it does start to become more advantageous round bends.

I've got full birds suspension upgrades and the Quaiffe but I still spin up the rears when booting it.

[AWSAWS]

Originally Posted by RajB

Weight is the biggest killer to lap times etc hence that Sub8 is a costly weight reduction to help achieve the time that was set. This is usually the case with most of the manufacturers as they start to remove bits to provide the reduced lap times and quicker car.

As for the lsd on the 335i, straight line it does nothing for cutting the dash from lighting up with the traction light bug it does start to become more advantageous round bends.

I've got full birds suspension upgrades and the Quaiffe but I still spin up the rears when booting it.

But I assume you spin the wheels and stay more straight than you would without an LSD? I gunned it under a bridge to hear my engine reverberate and the car began to go right on wheel spin. Must have been the right wheel spinning first. Not sure about this the more I think about it.

[djgandy]

Originally Posted by AWSAWS

But I assume you spin the wheels and stay more straight than you would without an LSD? I gunned it under a bridge to hear my engine reverberate and the car began to go right on wheel spin. Must have been the right wheel spinning first. Not sure about this the more I think about it.

The opposite is true, without an LSD more power is going to the spinning wheel, which by definition has less traction. This causes less power to go to the wheel with traction.

With an LSD when one wheel spins, more power is directed to the wheel with traction up to usually 30% slippage or something.

[RajB]

Originally Posted by AWSAWS

But I assume you spin the wheels and stay more straight than you would without an LSD? I gunned it under a bridge to hear my engine reverberate and the car began to go right on wheel spin. Must have been the right wheel spinning first. Not sure about this the more I think about it.

It squirms quite a bit but the traction light is flashing away too, to try and keep it all under control. So until I drive a non lsd car side by side hard to tell the difference in a straight line etc.

[gangzoom]

A previous European forum member had the ultimate 335i, LSD, ohlins suspension, hybrid turbos, BBK, custom made aftermarket oil cooler, and his 335 go well used/abused on the 'ring.

His done some fab write ups which is well worth a read. I've bought my Procede tune off him when he was getting rid of the 335i. For newer forum members his posts are worth a read, and shows what can be achieved with the 335 given enough effort...and it's not all just about chasing BHP

I nearly met up with him last summer when I did a tour of the swiss alps in the 335i, my favourite line is when he is asked the question why he didn't get a M3 instead of tuning a 335i....his reply is simply, a M3 isn't quick enough

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=379776

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=792844

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=322185

[windymissile]

This^^^ Alpina did some awesome write ups. English isn't even his first language! !

WM

[zltm089]

Plus one on Marcel's write ups!

Tony's ones are also very good!

[AWSAWS]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

A previous European forum member had the ultimate 335i, LSD, ohlins suspension, hybrid turbos, BBK, custom made aftermarket oil cooler, and his 335 go well used/abused on the 'ring.

His done some fab write ups which is well worth a read. I've bought my Procede tune off him when he was getting rid of the 335i. For newer forum members his posts are worth a read, and shows what can be achieved with the 335 given enough effort...and it's not all just about chasing BHP

I nearly met up with him last summer when I did a tour of the swiss alps in the 335i, my favourite line is when he is asked the question why he didn't get a M3 instead of tuning a 335i....his reply is simply, a M3 isn't quick enough

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=379776

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=792844

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=322185

Unless you are supercharging or turbo charging the M3 I'd have to agree. That's serious money.

[RajB]

Yes I did read that back end of last year when I was researching info regarding the 335i's before I bought mine. Very well written and insightful.

[Sinbad666]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

I use to a have Honda Integra R, which was the best of the previous gen of hot-hatches, had no radio/air con/minimal sound damping. Despite it only having 180bhp, AutoCar time it hitting 60mph at 5.5seconds!!

You must have been sold a dud, as no integra Type R comes with 180bhp.

It sounds like you had a import DC2 as AC and radio were optional over there. But standard on the UK integra and the later DC5.
They also did a SIR which had less power but more toys and sound deadening.

You are right in that they are more of a weekend car. In fact, there isnt another car ive driven that Ive had more fun in, it was on par with a Caterham I drove. i dont think the 335i comes close. I managed 8:45 with a standard DC2 at the Nurburgring on my first trip BTG.

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by Sinbad666

You must have been sold a dud, as no integra Type R comes with 180bhp.

It sounds like you had a import DC2 as AC and radio were optional over there. But standard on the UK integra and the later DC5.
They also did a SIR which had less power but more toys and sound deadening.

You are right in that they are more of a weekend car. In fact, there isnt another car ive driven that Ive had more fun in, it was on par with a Caterham I drove. i dont think the 335i comes close. I managed 8:45 with a standard DC2 at the Nurburgring on my first trip BTG.

No dud, UK car, original buyer didn't spec AC, and there was no radio when I bought it. I spent about £500 putting in a half decent stereo and speakers, sounded great....untill you started the engine, than you could barely hear your self think ..Ok the BHP is suppose to be 187, but I was close, it's been nearly 10 years since I owned it

When I eventually get a house with a double garage I'm going to buy another one, and keep it for the weekend. I was just too much of a girl to use it as a day to day car.

[Sinbad666]

They are not for the faint hearted, must say Im not usually a fan of red cars but your Milano looks

Becoming more and more difficult to find a decent one now with decent mileage.


Back to the topic- I think you would struggle to acheive a sub 8 min lap. Although it has the power for the Dottinger and Kesselchen it would struggle with braking and cornering.