[jonas]

Pretty self explanatory. What's gonna be the best solution long term for a single turbo swap and power? I've read port injection with full e85 is better, but I want to see what others are running.

[Zombie1]

Port All the way

[turb0mik3]

Port is hands down the better option. I will get flamed for saying this but meth is literally just a Band-Aid for extra extra power. You can use it in super small quantities to maintain low IATs for track use, but 99% of the people on here use it to gain power.

[steamboat]

Why not both? I'm running fuel-it stage3 in stage 2 config, and working my way up to e85 as I log. I also have 100% meth. If I run into fueling issues I'll throw on port injection for more headroom, but I think I'll be okay til I swap my turbos.

[jonas]

With both, doesn't that just create a nightmare for tuning?

[steamboat]

I can't say from personal experience, but everyone I've talked to says no. PI adds another level of complexity, but should be fine. My friend has a ST build with meth, and will be adding PI shortly to solve his fueling problems. Perhaps the more knowledgable tuners can drop in.

[WedgePerformance]

I just uninstalled my Aquamist and installed a MOTIV Stage 1 PI with Split Second controller. I also installed the Stage 3 Fuel-IT HULK.

One thing most people don't realize is the PI is not just a fuel rail, it's a full fuel system upgrade. I ripped out the stock plastic fuel lines and replaced them with larger high pressure hose. All AN fittings. Secondary fuel pressure regulator and a return line that dumps to the top of the Stage 3 so the bucket will always have fuel.

I have to admit the install was a bit scary looking at all the parts. But now that I have been through an install it's not that bad, just time consuming.

Was it worth it. Yes... Like turb0mike said the meth is a band-aid. Even upgraded hybrid turbos with inlets can max out the stock fuel system. There are other options, but those options don't take into consideration the limitations of the fuel lines. So $ for $, do yourself a favor and don't take shortcuts when fueling your car.

.

[jonas]

Originally Posted by WedgePerformance

I just uninstalled my Aquamist and installed a MOTIV Stage 1 PI with Split Second controller. I also installed the Stage 3 Fuel-IT HULK.

One thing most people don't realize is the PI is not just a fuel rail, it's a full fuel system upgrade. I ripped out the stock plastic fuel lines and replaced them with larger high pressure hose. All AN fittings. Secondary fuel pressure regulator and a return line that dumps to the top of the Stage 3 so the bucket will always have fuel.

I have to admit the install was a bit scary looking at all the parts. But now that I have been through an install it's not that bad, just time consuming.

Was it worth it. Yes... Like turb0mike said the meth is a band-aid. Even upgraded hybrid turbos with inlets can max out the stock fuel system. There are other options, but those options don't take into consideration the limitations of the fuel lines. So $ for $, do yourself a favor and don't take shortcuts when fueling your car.

.

I'm very interested in pictures of the replaced lines!

[Kevinl]

What is the benefit to port injection isn't the beauty of direct injection that fuel is injected into the cylinder at precisely the right time which makes pre ignition very unlikely

Is It for fuel flow? Don't any companies make high flow injectors or nozzles

When I owned my Duramax some of the high hp guys were using 200% over injectors

Port injection kind of seems like a step back

[robc1976]

Originally Posted by Kevinl

What is the benefit to port injection isn't the beauty of direct injection that fuel is injected into the cylinder at precisely the right time which makes pre ignition very unlikely

Is It for fuel flow? Don't any companies make high flow injectors or nozzles

When I owned my Duramax some of the high hp guys were using 200% over injectors

Port injection kind of seems like a step back

step back? It adds 6 injectors to your already 6 OEM injectors. Motiv stage 2-replaces all fuel lines also.

[Kevinl]

I know it keeps the original injectors but adding port injection dont you lose some of the precision that direct injection gives you

Maybe its not a concern because they only run e85 or race gas

[WilliamS]

Theres a right way, then there is Meth. Meth is a bandaid for our cars. It can help with cooling the intake temps, but its not a replacement for octane and fuel needs once you start to get to the high boost arena. If you have any question on which is better take a look at every high horsepower stock car, 600+ horsepower. Do any of them have a stock Meth tank? Do they all have very healthy fuel systems.

[steamboat]

I don't necessarily agree with labeling meth a band-aid in all applications. I agree it should not be used to supplement the fuel system. If the engine is fuel starved and the owner needs to choose between the two for whatever reason then yes, PI hands down is the better option. However, if they have the ability to run both, meth has additional advantages that would help him produce more power. Lower temps, more aggressive timing, etc.

[WedgePerformance]

Originally Posted by steamboat

I don't necessarily agree with labeling meth a band-aid in all applications. I agree it should not be used to supplement the fuel system. If the engine is fuel starved and the owner needs to choose between the two for whatever reason then yes, PI hands down is the better option. However, if they have the ability to run both, meth has additional advantages that would help him produce more power. Lower temps, more aggressive timing, etc.

There are a few points that could be debated. I agree Meth is used way too much as a band-aid... Not everyone has access to E85, so cooling the intake charge is required for low octane fuels in high boost situations. But using meth with E85 might just drop the temps low enough that it could have a negative effect on detonation.

Like robc1976 said, the MOTIV kit replaces the fuel lines. I have the new Stage 1 PI from MOTIVE and it also replaces the fuel lines. The other vendors should take notice and follow suit as the fuel line limitations shouldn't be ignored.

[Miller335]

Originally Posted by WedgePerformance

I just uninstalled my Aquamist and installed a MOTIV Stage 1 PI with Split Second controller. I also installed the Stage 3 Fuel-IT HULK.

One thing most people don't realize is the PI is not just a fuel rail, it's a full fuel system upgrade. I ripped out the stock plastic fuel lines and replaced them with larger high pressure hose. All AN fittings. Secondary fuel pressure regulator and a return line that dumps to the top of the Stage 3 so the bucket will always have fuel.

I have to admit the install was a bit scary looking at all the parts. But now that I have been through an install it's not that bad, just time consuming.

Was it worth it. Yes... Like turb0mike said the meth is a band-aid. Even upgraded hybrid turbos with inlets can max out the stock fuel system. There are other options, but those options don't take into consideration the limitations of the fuel lines. So $ for $, do yourself a favor and don't take shortcuts when fueling your car.

.

Very nice!

[tofu?]

as a casual user and street driver, i'm sticking with meth.

there's only one e85 station somewhat nearby, and that's at JFK airport...

a 5 gallon drum of meth lasts me over 6 months

[stanlalee]

Originally Posted by robc1976

step back? It adds 6 injectors to your already 6 OEM injectors. Motiv stage 2-replaces all fuel lines also.

I know exactly what he means but he's not looking at the full picture. the port injection is tuned to kick in only when needed so in a lot of circumstances your running the efficient lean at part throttle and low rpm, fuel efficient direct injection. At the point you need it to kick in you aren't concerned with the benefits of port vs direct injection. Not only do you keep all the benefits of direct injection when the extra fuel is not needed (if programmed like it should be) you get your intake valves washed and don't need this valve cleaning nonsense that plaques all direct injection only engines. In fact the combination of both is the future and Toyota I believe is/was the first to develop direct injection with port injection for OEM applications. If the port injection ran all the time he'd be right, you lose the benefits of direct injection.

[robc1976]

Originally Posted by WedgePerformance

There are a few points that could be debated. I agree Meth is used way too much as a band-aid... Not everyone has access to E85, so cooling the intake charge is required for low octane fuels in high boost situations. But using meth with E85 might just drop the temps low enough that it could have a negative effect on detonation.

Like robc1976 said, the MOTIV kit replaces the fuel lines. I have the new Stage 1 PI from MOTIVE and it also replaces the fuel lines. The other vendors should take notice and follow suit as the fuel line limitations shouldn't be ignored.

I just upgraded from stage 1 Motiv port injection and got stage 2 port injection parts and it replaces everything!

[Nitrousbird]

Just thinking out loud - why not using meth for port injection?

[Chrisruf911]

Originally Posted by Nitrousbird

Just thinking out loud - why not using meth for port injection?

It can be used for port injection but it would pretty much just batch fire all six nozzles at the same time which is not very efficient. I think there are instances where both pi and meth is beneficial. I run meth but if I ever up my power needs I will go pi. I don't think of meth as a band aid because at my power levels now it produces real octane and intake cooling. I get the full power benefits of my setup.

[jonas]

When you guys are saying the 100 and 200 kits, do you mean the stage 1 and stage two kits? I just want to make sure I'm looking at apples to apples, and not something else

[Boosted_N54]

Originally Posted by Nitrousbird

Just thinking out loud - why not using meth for port injection?

the PI nozzle are meant for fuel not meth