[AtoB]

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/c...ions-top-5.htm

BMW ranked 1st on performance perception, bettered porsche.

[nmulax]

hey at least BMW got the votes where it matters

[x5love]

Wow, Audi is in the bottom 2 for worst overall brand perception?

SHEESH!

[Neema]

why did this thread have to be named "Sucks for Audi?"

[TopDown]

Don't get too wrapped up in this. First, this is consumer perception, which does not necessarily equate to your experiences nor mine. Second, this is CR - a magazine whose findings are often disconnected with what excites car enthusiasts like you and me about cars. CR is probably useful if you're looking for a low-cost, reliable vacuum cleaner. But not if you're passionate about cars.

"Consumer Reports is to the car enthusiast, what a calorie counting book is to the gourmet"

[Neema]

Originally Posted by TopDown

Don't get too wrapped up in this. First, this is consumer perception, which does not necessarily equate to your experiences nor mine. Second, this is CR - a magazine whose findings are often disconnected with what excites car enthusiasts like you and me about cars. CR is probably useful if you're looking for a low-cost, reliable vacuum cleaner. But not if you're passionate about cars.

"Consumer Reports is to the car enthusiast, what a calorie counting book is to the gourmet"

Thank you! So true....... +100

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by TopDown

Don't get too wrapped up in this. First, this is consumer perception, which does not necessarily equate to your experiences nor mine. Second, this is CR - a magazine whose findings are often disconnected with what excites car enthusiasts like you and me about cars. CR is probably useful if you're looking for a low-cost, reliable vacuum cleaner. But not if you're passionate about cars.

"Consumer Reports is to the car enthusiast, what a calorie counting book is to the gourmet"

+100

Good summation. I'm not a fan of CR personally.

[slick101]

how the hell did the mercedes get into the quality list and the toyota in the technology list??? some consumers we have

[T Bone]

Wait until Footie sees this!


The only thing this survey shows are that people are dumb.

[Year's_End]

They're not dumb. It's just that Audi hasn't managed to crack the market until just recently. Give it a few years for Audi to release some more S5-like models. That's what sells here: looks and a big V8.

When people think of Audis, they think of cars catching on fire, breaking down, and that's about it. It's up to Audi to maintain a solid rep in the forthcoming years to get rid of that perception.

[TheAcAvenger]

When GMC, Chevy, and Ford are in the top 5 and Acura is in the bottom 5, the data is completely worthless. Toyota and Honda top 5 in performance? Give me a break. Toyota hasnt made a single performance car in the last 10 years. Honda? The S2K and the NSX, but the civics, accords aren't as sport as they used to be and the prelude doesn't even exist anymore. These ratings are awful.

[wj4]

Originally Posted by Boost_Nation

why did this thread have to be named "Sucks for Audi?"

Because it's like crips and bloods, cuz.

[Josh49]

Originally Posted by TopDown

"Consumer Reports is to the car enthusiast, what a calorie counting book is to the gourmet"

Great analogy..

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by TheAcAvenger

When GMC, Chevy, and Ford are in the top 5 and Acura is in the bottom 5, the data is completely worthless. Toyota and Honda top 5 in performance? Give me a break. Toyota hasnt made a single performance car in the last 10 years. Honda? The S2K and the NSX, but the civics, accords aren't as sport as they used to be and the prelude doesn't even exist anymore. These ratings are awful.

This is why I don't like CR "customer" feedback. Like 99% of the people that respond don't know jack about cars, so they think Toyota or Chevy when they think of performance. The fact that CR is a reputable brand amongst the general public is even more bothersome.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Loyalist

This is why I don't like CR "customer" feedback. Like 99% of the people that respond don't know jack about cars, so they think Toyota or Chevy when they think of performance. The fact that CR is a reputable brand amongst the general public is even more bothersome.

I will look to them if I was looking for a fridge or dishwasher but their reputation on car knowledge is a completely joke.

[kemiksiz]

Toyota - subaru - honda is safer than Audi, now that sucks!

[sparkyg]

Originally Posted by T Bone

I will look to them if I was looking for a fridge or dishwasher but their reputation on car knowledge is a completely joke.

+1

[footie]

Originally Posted by T Bone

Wait until Footie sees this!


The only thing this survey shows are that people are dumb.

Where was this survey conducted, Munich.

[94JZA80]

Originally Posted by AtoB

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/c...ions-top-5.htm

BMW ranked 1st on performance perception, bettered porsche.

keep in mind that consumer reports represents the majority, and the average driver skill level of the majority of consumers is very low. in other words, a very small fraction of consumers know how to really "drive a car" and are actual enthusiasts. that being said, there's a simple explanation for such a perception: BMW's are generally easier to drive than Porsche's [and certain other competition]. BMW's are typically very "neutral" cars (via their near 50/50 weight distributions, among other reasons).

example: the e46 M3 and 996 Carrera are very similar cars performance-wise in the hands of the average driver - but swap the average driver for a very capable or above-average driver, and the Carrera clearly becomes the better car with respect to pure performance. in other words, its a harder car to drive near its limits, but if you're capable of driving near that limit, you'll have little problems making short work of an e46 M3 with an equally skilled driver. thus the majority of drivers (who are average at best), will perceive the M3 as the better performing car simply b/c its easier to drive near the limits, giving the driver the false sense that it actually performs better than the 996 Carrera.

similar things are already being said about the new GT-R with respect to the C6 Z06. the GT-R is supposed to be a car that ANYONE can drive fast and hard. it is supposed to achieve performance levels with a driver of particular skill level that could not be achieved in the Z06 unless its driver were even better than the driver of the GT-R. note that i am not saying that the GT-R will outperform (or even hang with) a C6 Z06. but allow an "average" driver to drive them back to back, and the GT-R will inspire more confidence b/c of its more "neutral" handling, thus giving the driver the perception that it is the better performer. now i know this is all speculation at this point, but i have confidence in this concept b/c its already been shown to be true in several "e46 M3 vs 996 Carrera" comparisons.

another example is the e46 M3 and the MKIV Supra. allow an average driver to drive these two back to back and he'll tell you that the M3 was much easier to drive and that it handled better - when in fact the M3 only seemed to handle better b/c it has a more neutral chassis and is thus easier to approach its limits than it is to approach the limits of an MKIV Supra. but allow a skilled driver [who isn't afraid to push to the limits of either car] to drive them back to back, and he'll either tell you that the Supra has the slight edge in performance, or that neither car is really a better performer than the other. again, in the hands of novice and average drivers, the M3 is "perceived" as the better performer.


moral of the story: "performance perception" not only depends on chassis neutrality, overall weight, center of gravity, etc. - it also depends heavily on individual driver skill as well as the average driver skill of a group of people - in this case millions of Americans with below-average to average driver skill, as that's who Consumer Reports caters to. regardless, to make such a large mass of people perceive its cars as the best performers is no small feat. congratulations to BMW for being able to claim such a title.

[lyndon_h]

Originally Posted by 94JZA80

keep in mind that consumer reports represents that majority, and the average driver skill level of the majority of consumers is very low. in other words, a very small fraction of consumers know how to really "drive a car" and are actual enthusiasts. that being said, there's a simple explanation for such a perception: BMW's are generally easier to drive than Porsche's [and certain other competition]. BMW's are typically very "neutral" cars (via their near 50/50 weight distributions, among other reasons).

example: the e46 M3 and 996 Carrera are very similar cars performance-wise in the hands of the average driver - but swap the average driver for a very capable or above-average driver, and the Carrera clearly becomes the better car with respect to pure performance. in other words, its a harder car to drive near its limits, but if you're capable of driving near that limit, you'll have little problems making short work of an e46 M3 with an equally skilled driver. thus the majority of drivers (who are average at best), will perceive the M3 as the better performing car simply b/c its easier to drive near the limits, giving the driver the false sense that it actually performs better than the 996 Carrera.

similar things are already being said about the new GT-R with respect to the C6 Z06. the GT-R is supposed to be a car that ANYONE can drive fast and hard. it is supposed to achieve performance levels with a driver of particular skill level that could not be achieved in the Z06 unless its driver were even better than the driver of the GT-R. note that i am not saying that the GT-R will outperform (or even hang with) a C6 Z06. but allow an "average" driver to drive them back to back, and the GT-R will inspire more confidence b/c of its more "neutral" handling, thus giving the driver the perception that it is the better performer. now i know this is all speculation at this point, but i have confidence in this concept b/c its already been shown to be true in several "e46 M3 vs 996 Carrera" comparisons.

another example is the e46 M3 and the MKIV Supra. allow an average driver to drive these two back to back and he'll tell you that the M3 was much easier to drive and that it handled better - when in fact the M3 only seemed to handle better b/c it has a more neutral chassis and is thus easier to approach its limits than it is to approach the limits of an MKIV Supra. but allow a skilled driver [who isn't afraid to push to the limits of either car] to drive them back to back, and he'll either tell you that the Supra has the slight edge in performance, or that neither car is really a better performer than the other. again, in the hands of novice and average drivers, the M3 is "perceived" as the better performer.


moral of the story: "performance perception" not only depends on chassis neutrality, overall weight, center of gravity, etc. - it also depends heavily on individual driver skill as well as the average driver skill of a group of people - in this case millions of Americans with below-average to average driver skill, as that's who Consumer Reports caters to. regardless, to make such a large mass of people perceive its cars as the best performers is no small feat. congratulations to BMW for being able to claim such a title.

I agree with you on points above.

[Crimson92]

Originally Posted by slick101

how the hell did the mercedes get into the quality list and the toyota in the technology list??? some consumers we have

actually merc has gotten a lot better in terms of quality i can assure you of that and the tech in the mercs is beyond awesome

[!Xoible]

this rating is BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!! if chevy made it in the list it's BULLSHIT