Key Fob data tracking and Piggy Back chip

OZ!MSport · 02-17-2008, 12:24 AM

Hi All,

Does anyone know if BMW can tell if you have had a piggy back chip (PROcede etc.) installed - from the data that is collected on your key fob?

Thanks

sflgator · 02-17-2008, 12:32 AM

No, they cannot tell if you have a piggyback based on your key fob data. That thing mainly stores info like mileage left to oil/filter change, mileage left to change brake pads, total miles driven, etc. It does not store that kind of engine performance history data, and even if it did, it would only show what the ECU "thinks" it's receiving anyhow.

doba_s · 02-17-2008, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sflgator

No, they cannot tell if you have a piggyback based on your key fob data. That thing mainly stores info like mileage left to oil/filter change, mileage left to change brake pads, total miles driven, etc. It does not store that kind of engine performance history data, and even if it did, it would only show what the ECU "thinks" it's receiving anyhow.

i think he is right ... but not 100% positive

Placey · 02-17-2008, 09:54 AM

yes, he's right

e90AW335i · 02-17-2008, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sflgator

No, they cannot tell if you have a piggyback based on your key fob data. That thing mainly stores info like mileage left to oil/filter change, mileage left to change brake pads, total miles driven, etc. It does not store that kind of engine performance history data, and even if it did, it would only show what the ECU "thinks" it's receiving anyhow.

+1. The whole point of a piggyback is that the ECU thinks that it is still providing stock boost. That is why it is undetectable....

bmwzimmer · 02-17-2008, 12:35 PM

With the Procede/Xede units out there, the ECU only sees standard stock boost pressures/timing/etc... I don't know if the TT's or JB's have the ability to intercept the ECU datalogs so that is shows stock levels.

DrDomer · 02-17-2008, 02:35 PM

They cannot detect a piggyback through your key fob, but I am not convinced that if you had a major warranty issue that they couldn't detect you've had a piggyback installed. The ECU logs LOTS of data. This has been discussed, and no definitve answer has been given.

OZ!MSport · 02-17-2008, 07:14 PM

Hmmm - OK, thanks everyone for your feedback.

O-cha · 02-17-2008, 07:16 PM

They will know instantly after hooking up your car to their computer by just looking at trims simple as that.

e90AW335i · 02-17-2008, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O-cha

They will know instantly after hooking up your car to their computer by just looking at trims simple as that.

Explain further please....

Placey · 02-17-2008, 08:27 PM

The key data doesnt store Fuel trim

But, if its only for routine service, and there is no reason to check the fuel trims, then there would be NO reason to assume any modifications have been performed. the dealerships dont care if you have aftermarket equipment. If it can be PROVEN that the cause of your complaint is due to the afermarket equipment installation, then it would probably mean that it wouldnt be covered under warranty.

If you go into a dealership w/ engine upgrades, but your steering wheel trim is peeling, it would still be warrantied.

If you go into a dealership w/ engine upgrades, and there is a rod hanging out of the block, then it wont be warrantied.

However, if the vehicle goes into the dealership w/ a rod hanging out of the block, yet its back to bone stock, and theres no physical sign that aftermarket equipment was previously installed, then it would turn out to be warranty

--------------------------------------------------------------------

In final.... when the vehicle is hooked up to the BMW diagnostic system, there is nothing stating that theres an aftermarket performance enhancing product, it just gives information as it normally would with a vehicle w/o performance modifications.

turbotko · 02-18-2008, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O-cha

They will know instantly after hooking up your car to their computer by just looking at trims simple as that.

Have you ever looked at the "trims" on a car before? There are many many things that will affect the "trims" besides a piggyback. In fact, I have looked at the adaptations many times on my own car using a GT1, and all my fueling adaptations are well within tolerances. They showed no signs of having any kind of modification done.

Bottom line, I have looked at every peice of data in the DME with the BMW diagnostic tester on my own car........there is no way to know there was a piggyback on it. Period.

O-cha · 02-18-2008, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbotko

Have you ever looked at the "trims" on a car before? There are many many things that will affect the "trims" besides a piggyback. In fact, I have looked at the adaptations many times on my own car using a GT1, and all my fueling adaptations are well within tolerances. They showed no signs of having any kind of modification done.

Bottom line, I have looked at every peice of data in the DME with the BMW diagnostic tester on my own car........there is no way to know there was a piggyback on it. Period.

And you compared this to a stock car? I'll have to see if I can get a screen shot and compare it to stock this weekend.

02-17-2008, 12:24 AM	#1
OZ!MSport -----------------~ 9 Rep 147 Posts Drives: AW e92 335 6MT Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Australia iTrader: (0)	Key Fob data tracking and Piggy Back chip Hi All, Does anyone know if BMW can tell if you have had a piggy back chip (PROcede etc.) installed - from the data that is collected on your key fob? Thanks
	Appreciate 0 Tweet Quote

02-17-2008, 12:32 AM	#2
sflgator Major General 166 Rep 5,389 Posts Drives: '09 MB C63 AMG & '08 MB GL450 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: U.S. iTrader: (1)	No, they cannot tell if you have a piggyback based on your key fob data. That thing mainly stores info like mileage left to oil/filter change, mileage left to change brake pads, total miles driven, etc. It does not store that kind of engine performance history data, and even if it did, it would only show what the ECU "thinks" it's receiving anyhow. __________________ \|2009 RENNtech MB C63 AMG \| Black/Black Leather/Black Maple \| Premium II \| MultiMedia \| iPod \| \| TeleAid \| Charcoal Filter Delete \| BMC High-Flow Air Filters \| High-Flow Secondary Cats \| Clear Side Markers \|
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-17-2008, 09:54 AM	#4
Placey First Lieutenant 15 Rep 367 Posts Drives: 08 Z4 3.0SI Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Upstate New York iTrader: (1)	yes, he's right
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-17-2008, 12:35 PM	#6
bmwzimmer Major 42 Rep 1,084 Posts Drives: 335 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: 91 octane states iTrader: (0)	With the Procede/Xede units out there, the ECU only sees standard stock boost pressures/timing/etc... I don't know if the TT's or JB's have the ability to intercept the ECU datalogs so that is shows stock levels.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-17-2008, 02:35 PM	#7
DrDomer Major 43 Rep 1,349 Posts Drives: 2004 330ci ZHP, 1999 Miata Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Iowa iTrader: (0)	They cannot detect a piggyback through your key fob, but I am not convinced that if you had a major warranty issue that they couldn't detect you've had a piggyback installed. The ECU logs LOTS of data. This has been discussed, and no definitve answer has been given. __________________ Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves. ~Albert Einstein
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-17-2008, 07:14 PM	#8
OZ!MSport -----------------~ 9 Rep 147 Posts Drives: AW e92 335 6MT Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Australia iTrader: (0)	Hmmm - OK, thanks everyone for your feedback.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-17-2008, 07:16 PM	#9
O-cha Brigadier General 244 Rep 4,726 Posts Drives: Mcoupe Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: In front of you iTrader: (2)	They will know instantly after hooking up your car to their computer by just looking at trims simple as that. __________________
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-17-2008, 08:27 PM	#11
Placey First Lieutenant 15 Rep 367 Posts Drives: 08 Z4 3.0SI Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Upstate New York iTrader: (1)	The key data doesnt store Fuel trim But, if its only for routine service, and there is no reason to check the fuel trims, then there would be NO reason to assume any modifications have been performed. the dealerships dont care if you have aftermarket equipment. If it can be PROVEN that the cause of your complaint is due to the afermarket equipment installation, then it would probably mean that it wouldnt be covered under warranty. If you go into a dealership w/ engine upgrades, but your steering wheel trim is peeling, it would still be warrantied. If you go into a dealership w/ engine upgrades, and there is a rod hanging out of the block, then it wont be warrantied. However, if the vehicle goes into the dealership w/ a rod hanging out of the block, yet its back to bone stock, and theres no physical sign that aftermarket equipment was previously installed, then it would turn out to be warranty -------------------------------------------------------------------- In final.... when the vehicle is hooked up to the BMW diagnostic system, there is nothing stating that theres an aftermarket performance enhancing product, it just gives information as it normally would with a vehicle w/o performance modifications.
	Appreciate 0 Quote