[rav.k]

Been lowered on H&R sports for over a year but for the past couple of weeks I have started to experience rubbing issues. Car is sitting on avantgarde M359's, 10 inches wide on rear wrapped in 265/30/19 and 9 inches wide at front on 235/35/19. Took to a garage this week and they can't seem to find any cause to the rubbing. So now what? Coilovers? Differant springs? Any advice guys

Edit: not tyre rubbing, see below.

[ahmedb]

Are you saying that you haven't changed your setup during this time and all of a sudden, rubbing has occurred? Do you get rubbing when you have no passengers?

You could get your tracking/camber checked out, over time these can change.

If you take a wheel off, can you see any signs of where the rubbing is occurring?

[Phil325i]

Probably need to get a portion of your rear arches rolled. Take your wheel off and you'll see which part of the arch the tyre is rubbing against.

[rav.k]

Originally Posted by ahmedb

Are you saying that you haven't changed your setup during this time and all of a sudden, rubbing has occurred? Do you get rubbing when you have no passengers?

You could get your tracking/camber checked out, over time these can change.

If you take a wheel off, can you see any signs of where the rubbing is occurring?

Haven't changed the set up no. The car just becomes jerky when going round round abouts and even road surfaces and the DTC dash light flashes. And I've inspected the tyres but not sure which wheel is rubbing although I suspect it's the front driver side. Going to put my 18" mv3's on and see if the issue persists

[rav.k]

Originally Posted by Phil325i

Probably need to get a portion of your rear arches rolled. Take your wheel off and you'll see which part of the arch the tyre is rubbing against.

Would it become obvious which wheel is rubbing from inspecting the arches? Cos I've looked already and still can't tell which wheel it is

[rav.k]

UPDATE
I just put my stock MV3's on the the problem is still persisting but I don't think it can be tyres rubbing, especially if it's occurring on stock 18s.

Anyone have any idea what could cause to the car to feel jerky over minor bumps and bends in the road when steering wheel has right hand down slightly?? DTC light flashes on dash

[old grey steve]

Originally Posted by rav.k

UPDATE
I just put my stock MV3's on the the problem is still persisting but I don't think it can be tyres rubbing, especially if it's occurring on stock 18s.

Anyone have any idea what could cause to the car to feel jerky over minor bumps and bends in the road when steering wheel has right hand down slightly?? DTC light flashes on dash

Tackle the basics first if you've got a jerk over bumps and a DTC light present then I'd be looking to having the car in the air to look at the rear susepnsion carefully but more importantly you mention when entering a right handed bend you feel the sensation! If I've read this correctly then the symptoms you are getting could relate to the drive shafts as the DTC wll be constantly be cutting in/out and that would reign back power and will also produce the jerky sensation you are expieriencing.




The above pictures oddly enough of a rear drive shaft (120D) show the wear corrosion sets in lifts the reluctor ring the ring then strikes the wheel speed sensor killing then hence the issue you are having perhaps when applying approperate steering to go in to a right hand bend, you'll apply load natrually to the near side rear, enough load to trigger the sensation you are expieriencing.

As a test switch of the DTC(hold down for 3 or so seconds) take the car for a drive and simply see if any of the recorded symptoms re occur, if they don't then there's your starter for 10, the rubbing sensation you may be hearing may well be all connected and could be the DTC kicking in & out constantly.

However something else could be going on at the same time, but I'd centre my investigation based on this comment you've made"The car just becomes jerky when going round round abouts and even road surfaces and the DTC dash light flashes." on the rear drive shafts up in the air you can turn the axle by hand watching where the reluctor ring is see any evidence of rubbing then you're on the home straight you'll also be able to examine the wheel speed sensor for abnormal wear etc, but the common cause for all this is pure simple corrosion, effects other makes as well so don't think for one minute its a BMW only issue it isn't but a fair few especially 4 cylinder models seem ot suffer from 2004/08 I'd say judging by the amount we've seen.

Previous post on heere read between the lines you'll see a pattern http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1122354

If you have wheel rubbing issus thats a different matter and you could have but trythe DTC disable trick drive it and see if this issue magically goes away.

[rav.k]

Originally Posted by old grey steve

Tackle the basics first if you've got a jerk over bumps and a DTC light present then I'd be looking to having the car in the air to look at the rear susepnsion carefully but more importantly you mention when entering a right handed bend you feel the sensation! If I've read this correctly then the symptoms you are getting could relate to the drive shafts as the DTC wll be constantly be cutting in/out and that would reign back power and will also produce the jerky sensation you are expieriencing.




The above pictures oddly enough of a rear drive shaft (120D) show the wear corrosion sets in lifts the reluctor ring the ring then strikes the wheel speed sensor killing then hence the issue you are having perhaps when applying approperate steering to go in to a right hand bend, you'll apply load natrually to the near side rear, enough load to trigger the sensation you are expieriencing.

As a test switch of the DTC(hold down for 3 or so seconds) take the car for a drive and simply see if any of the recorded symptoms re occur, if they don't then there's your starter for 10, the rubbing sensation you may be hearing may well be all connected and could be the DTC kicking in & out constantly.

However something else could be going on at the same time, but I'd centre my investigation based on this comment you've made"The car just becomes jerky when going round round abouts and even road surfaces and the DTC dash light flashes." on the rear drive shafts up in the air you can turn the axle by hand watching where the reluctor ring is see any evidence of rubbing then you're on the home straight you'll also be able to examine the wheel speed sensor for abnormal wear etc, but the common cause for all this is pure simple corrosion, effects other makes as well so don't think for one minute its a BMW only issue it isn't but a fair few especially 4 cylinder models seem ot suffer from 2004/08 I'd say judging by the amount we've seen.

Previous post on heere read between the lines you'll see a pattern http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1122354

If you have wheel rubbing issus thats a different matter and you could have but trythe DTC disable trick drive it and see if this issue magically goes away.

I've done some research and had a look into this and I think you've definitely pointed me in the right direction! Thank you. Taking car to a BMW independent specialist tomorrow and will make him aware of the driveshaft / speed sensor issue possibility and hopefully he can crack it.

[rav.k]

If this is the issue, is it nessasary to replace the whole driveshaft or just the reluctor rings?

[old grey steve]

Originally Posted by rav.k

I've done some research and had a look into this and I think you've definitely pointed me in the right direction! Thank you. Taking car to a BMW independent specialist tomorrow and will make him aware of the driveshaft / speed sensor issue possibility and hopefully he can crack it.

Its all you can do from one of your comments re noticing it when going into a right hand bend that was the trigger to suggest a driveshaft/speed sensor issue, it will if the specialist knows his stuff/has come across it before be pretty straightforward to grasp. As said and it's like all things on forum your explanation how you explain it means someone comes up with a "possible outcome and/or solution" to a problem.

You should as I've said try driving the car DTC off to see if on a right hand bend/roundabout if the issue manages to no pop up on a drive. Research is one thing actually trying it is something that doesn't take too long and will help you as you can go back to the guy with positive proof that by following this action the issue doesn't rear its head.

I'd hope being a specialist he'd carry out a fish as well to see the triggers I'd expect some hydro related codes as well if this is the cas as this will if been working a bit of overtime.

Originally Posted by rav.k

If this is the issue, is it nessasary to replace the whole driveshaft or just the reluctor rings?

If it is and it is a big "if" then there are several schools of thought, BMW want on or around £450+VAT per shaft, places like Euro's now are re stocking shafts again e change for easily half the price.

The other option is remove separate the ring, buy replacement ring for around £20ish +VAT clean the corrosion of the shaft treat accordingly and re fit the replacement reluctor ring, but all this really will depend on the state of the shaft/your indys view on replacing just the ring on your existing driveshaft(if this proves to be the issue)to be honest.

[rav.k]

my indy confirmed it was the reluctor rings (or pick up rings as he referred to them) on both rear corners. new rings on, problem solved.

[old grey steve]

Originally Posted by rav.k

my indy confirmed it was the reluctor rings (or pick up rings as he referred to them) on both rear corners. new rings on, problem solved.

There you go as I thought, the clue for me was when you said it seems to happen when you turn in to a corner. Cheap fix too replacing just the rings, glad you got it sorted

[Dan-danGT]

Sorry to Jack this thread but old grey Steve, I have a similar situation with my e90, not changed any suspension only tyres on the rear. Since doing so I have noticed my car is unstable in bends similar to what's described up. But I don't have a dtc light flashing. Could it still be causing a fault without putting the light on?

I have had the car up in the air checked all bushes and suspension, can't find any play. However I have not looked at the rings yet. I'm getting a little stumped with my fault. I'm thinking replace track rod ends and lower front arms for m3(which I have in my toolbox) then have alignment done. Don't suppose you can shed some light on my problem please

[bishbosh]

I'm also having issues. I've just lowered my car but not had an alignment carried out yet. I get the DTC light flashing on bends either left or right. I didn't get this before though so I'm wondering if poor alignment could be a factor? Seems a big coincidence if my reluctor rings failed the same day I installed the new suspension!!

[Aragorn30d]

Dan: If you think it might be a DSC/sensor/reluctor issue, try turning it off. Are the tyres good brands and correctly inflated?

[Dan-danGT]

Turned it off today fully and drove fast ish and it's still wandering, tyres are good year rear and vreds front which I do want to change soon. The tyre pressures are ok set them only a week ago. It's getting on my nerves. It's never felt brilliant since day one. I always thought it's a bit wandery at speed

[Aragorn30d]

Worn bushings/balljoints can give a unsettled wandery ride, as can worn out shocks.

Hard to tell without driving it and have experienced how it feels i guess.

[old grey steve]

Originally Posted by Dan-danGT

Sorry to Jack this thread but old grey Steve, I have a similar situation with my e90, not changed any suspension only tyres on the rear. Since doing so I have noticed my car is unstable in bends similar to what's described up. But I don't have a dtc light flashing. Could it still be causing a fault without putting the light on?

I have had the car up in the air checked all bushes and suspension, can't find any play. However I have not looked at the rings yet. I'm getting a little stumped with my fault. I'm thinking replace track rod ends and lower front arms for m3(which I have in my toolbox) then have alignment done. Don't suppose you can shed some light on my problem please

You've replaced tyres the old brand was ? the new brand is?

If you've noticed it since replacing the tyres logic says start here afterall these little bits of rubber can make/break car to tarmac pleasure.... Seen cars with say budget tyres fitted that were purchased for price, plenty of tread on them(as they were new)but never felt right. When inspected on a ramp on the odd occassion we have found issues such as mis shapen side walls, but sometimes when inspected nothing stands out.

I don't know for sure but if say you have selected a budget tyre with its own compound/tread pattern there is a feeling of disconnection between car/road surface.

If this is the case apart from checking the tyres on the ramp and pressures(more re this in a moment)if you can swap the tyres and the car seems a lot better, logic says these new tyres should still provide grip, traction, adhesion as you'd expect but swapping a budget tyre for something half decent tyre wise as we've seen can be a deal breaker.

Therefore as these are your comments you need to start at the point of contect where a change has been made/difference has been felt. If by swapping a tyre (using the same pressures)you notice a marked difference from this basic but slightly costly "trial" you've solved the mystery..

However the other issue could be your new tyre and tyre pressure relationship, some react differently to the same pressures, therefore have you played around with the pressures to see if this makes any difference?

Sometimes altering the pressures a little can make great inroads into solving various issues/mystery's, as it currently stands have the tyres as they are now been under inflated/over inflated? If a garage has done the necessary and I've seen it many a time we've had a car or two in with handling type issues that has been largely solved by simply inspecting like you have done and actually discoivering no mechanical fault, but a fault in the tyre inflation(sometimes tyre places have 2 people working on the cars on off side one near side)chances of them inflating the tyres differently! Well seen enough to know it happens, so worth a look.

Other than that perhaps there's an issue present that you weren't quite aware of a hidden gem on the E9X series that doesn't always get the attention it needs is the rear subframe bush set that can split/compress over time causing squidgy handling, this one unlike a lot of the multilink rear suspension bushes isn't quite so easy to hit the nail on the head.

But TBH you could be looking at re visiting everything and going through it bit by bit, logic says tyres first as this is the point that has drawn you to put the post up, look at them carefully on a ramp, are they deformed, have they got equal pressures on board, if they have if it feels soft try a smal inflation increase to see how it compares, but don't go mad over inflation will create tyre wear, plus other handling issues to tread carefully.

Always having wild stabs in the dark re questions asked but have a try at some of the above, perhaps starting with pressure cheks, maybe increasing pressures a tad to see what reaccion takes place and go from there if you find this creates a bit of nervious reaction then try going the oppostire way re inflation to see if that makes a difference and go from there.

Originally Posted by bishbosh

I'm also having issues. I've just lowered my car but not had an alignment carried out yet. I get the DTC light flashing on bends either left or right. I didn't get this before though so I'm wondering if poor alignment could be a factor? Seems a big coincidence if my reluctor rings failed the same day I installed the new suspension!!

Alterong suspension ride height can have an effect therefore as a basic test if you drive down a piece of road at a set speed and the light kicks on/off and you feel the car holding back, as I said to rav.k right from day 1 carry out a simple test switch the DTC off(hold button for around 3 seconds til the light shows up as a warning to driver re switched off)and re drive the same road, if you notice its transformed then your drive shaft rings could well be lifting due to corrosion, if htis is the case like rav.k found out they need to be visually inspected a half decent tech should know what to look for dropping ride height will alter the geometry slightly this could be the differece as you've kind of figgered out but all you can do is try with the basics and work from there.

Originally Posted by Aragorn30d

Dan: If you think it might be a DSC/sensor/reluctor issue, try turning it off. Are the tyres good brands and correctly inflated?

Yep as said above you've got to go through the basics 70% of mysterys on cars we see can be solved with basic commonsence oddly enough

[Dan-danGT]

Thanks for the reply, the tyres in question are good year eagle f1 so should be decent. Brand new tyres as well. When the car came back I checked the pressures to find the backs only on 30psi. So I upped them to 2.7bar as per my tyre pressure sticker. Tried it again no joy. Took 3-4psi out still no better.

It has never felt brilliant as such since day one but it's getting worse that's a certainty, rear diff bushes do sound like a good call. The car has done 100k is an 08 plate. Which is remapped, has done two trackdays so could have taken it's toll on them.

When driving around a certain bend near me(although it does feel the same on them all) it will feel as though the backend is moving around without my input. Also while on straight roads it wonders slightly but worse mid bend. I was thinking perhaps have a geometry check just to see if anything shows up on that test?

[old grey steve]

Originally Posted by Dan-danGT

Thanks for the reply, the tyres in question are good year eagle f1 so should be decent. Brand new tyres as well. When the car came back I checked the pressures to find the backs only on 30psi. So I upped them to 2.7bar as per my tyre pressure sticker. Tried it again no joy. Took 3-4psi out still no better.

It has never felt brilliant as such since day one but it's getting worse that's a certainty, rear diff bushes do sound like a good call. The car has done 100k is an 08 plate. Which is remapped, has done two trackdays so could have taken it's toll on them.

When driving around a certain bend near me(although it does feel the same on them all) it will feel as though the backend is moving around without my input. Also while on straight roads it wonders slightly but worse mid bend. I was thinking perhaps have a geometry check just to see if anything shows up on that test?

So "It has never felt brilliant as such since day one but it's getting worse that's a certainty"

It'll be worth looking deeper perhaps to see what's going on tyre pressures for starters are a basic good starting point to see what changes if anything, but re your tyre of choice not a bad selection so all should bode well re these but the pressures may assist a little, however you've eluded on a later post that the cars never felt great from dsy 1 so perhaps new tyres on the car may well of highlighted a previous fault/issue that needs further time/investigating but all rear arms, check shocks for leaks, lack of resistance and though a fair bit harder to pin point check the rear subframe bushes for wear.

[bishbosh]

Thanks Steve, an alignment has cured the DTC light in my case, it only ever appeared on a bend and only right after the suspension was changed. The rear toe was out 1 degree on both sides and the camber was roughly -3 degs each side. Once brought within spec the rear end is much better now

The fronts is another matter, the alignment shop couldn't unseize the track rod end so while the front toe was within spec it could have been better. But I'm having a clunking sound from the brakes so I think I need to get my indy to check the bushes - at 145k miles the front ones have never been changed!

[old grey steve]

Originally Posted by bishbosh

Thanks Steve, an alignment has cured the DTC light in my case, it only ever appeared on a bend and only right after the suspension was changed. The rear toe was out 1 degree on both sides and the camber was roughly -3 degs each side. Once brought within spec the rear end is much better now

The fronts is another matter, the alignment shop couldn't unseize the track rod end so while the front toe was within spec it could have been better. But I'm having a clunking sound from the brakes so I think I need to get my indy to check the bushes - at 145k miles the front ones have never been changed!

Cheaper solution than the driveshafts for sure, yes alignment will effect things, and can cause issues, likewise things like the steering angle sensor being active will also create a ABS type related fault, shows re alignment how critical it is to ensure its within spec