[jgoens]

I read the detailing sticky, but am still finding the swirls hard to get out. I just bought a shurhold polisher and tried some Meguiers polish and TR3 resin/glaze polish. Using the machine I can get regular small scratches down to almost unnoticeable but the swirls stay. I don't know if I need to just keep polishing, but am afraid of taking too much clear off.

[psnt1ol]

This is a very broad subject.

Please provide more details regarding your pads ( size, type) as well as your process and approach. Which Meguiars polish did you use??

[jgoens]

Originally Posted by psnt1ol

This is a very broad subject.

Please provide more details regarding your pads ( size, type) as well as your process and approach. Which Meguiars polish did you use??

I used a shurhold pro polish black foam pad. They are maybe 6in in diameter. They are the recommended pad in the "tips from the pros" section of the manual. The Meguiar's polish is the Ultimate Polish.
I was expecting the swirls to just come right out. The polisher has variable speeds from 2500 opm-6500.

[mbanks21]

Ultimate polish is not really designed to remove swirls. And are you using a machine or doing it by hand?

[psnt1ol]

I assume you have the 3100 model....

Like most DA polisher with the exception of a force rotation machine like Flex 3401, the smaller backing plate (5 inch) to be use with a 5.5 inch pad works best. The machine will gain a bit more power by using the smaller backing plate and pad combination (Less mass to rotate).

The black pad you have is a finishing pad and to remove moderate defects requires a polishing pad or even a cutting pad. I would recommend using low profile pads such as Lake Country foam pads.

White Polishing
http://www.detailedimage.com/Lake-Co...57/55-inch-S2/

Orange light cutting
http://www.detailedimage.com/Lake-Co...58/55-inch-S2/

A step up from the Ultimate polish is the Ultimate compound. These 2 products are the consumer line for Mequiars and they both are fairly user friendly.

Machine polishing is not rocket science but there are some best practices all beginners should follow.

Here is an old video from the Junkman that is still relevant today. This is the 1st of 6 vids he did a few years back on this particular subject.

Here is another informative one from Larry at Ammo NYC

[jgoens]

Originally Posted by psnt1ol

I assume you have the 3100 model....

Like most DA polisher with the exception of a force rotation machine like Flex 3401, the smaller backing plate (5 inch) to be use with a 5.5 inch pad works best. The machine will gain a bit more power by using the smaller backing plate and pad combination (Less mass to rotate).

The black pad you have is a finishing pad and to remove moderate defects requires a polishing pad or even a cutting pad. I would recommend using low profile pads such as Lake Country foam pads.

White Polishing
http://www.detailedimage.com/Lake-Co...57/55-inch-S2/

Orange light cutting
http://www.detailedimage.com/Lake-Co...58/55-inch-S2/

A step up from the Ultimate polish is the Ultimate compound. These 2 products are the consumer line for Mequiars and they both are fairly user friendly.

Machine polishing is not rocket science but there are some best practices all beginners should follow.

Here is an old video from the Junkman that is still relevant today. This is the 1st of 6 vids he did a few years back on this particular subject.

Here is another informative one from Larry at Ammo NYC

Cool, I'll watch the vids later and hopefully gain some insight on getting it right. That shurhold polisher is not cheap--150$--not the highest end but, it is a lot better than the cheapie wax master thing I bought years ago. And the pads are sold separately too. I put down more than 200$ for some detailing products... figure I could get my car looking nice.

[psnt1ol]

Machine polishing is not rocket science and an ABC approach doesn't always gets the job done either. There is a bit of art in the process. You will know what I am referring to once you get a little time behind the buffer.


Most of us got started the same way. I started with a Porter Cable and now I have over 6 machines in my arsenal. Unfortunately, there is only so much you could learn from videos and "Experience" is the best teacher.

[jgoens]

Originally Posted by psnt1ol

Machine polishing is not rocket science and an ABC approach doesn't always gets the job done either. There is a bit of art in the process. You will know what I am referring to once you get a little time behind the buffer.


Most of us got started the same way. I started with a Porter Cable and now I have over 6 machines in my arsenal. Unfortunately, there is only so much you could learn from videos and "Experience" is the best teacher.

I started watching the first set of videos--pretty informative...I even went to junkman's wash vid and then I realized how much work it is--particularly the washing to not get swirl part. Spending the time to get the swirls out looks do-able but keeping them away looks daunting. Those links to the products is good-have you used DI before? I searched for the meguiars products(M150) and it is not that easy to find, however your links have everything. Seems like I need the orange pad and the M150 to have a real chance to do it right.

[psnt1ol]

M105 was the "IT" compound a few years back. There are products in the market now that are much easier to deal with. DI is one of the vendor sponsors for this forum.

Menzerna FG400

http://www.detailedimage.com/Menzern...P688/32-oz-S2/

M101

http://www.detailedimage.com/Meguiar...P715/32-oz-S1/

You might not even need to go this aggressive. Use the least aggressive approach to get the job done. Try using a polishing pad first.

[jgoens]

So, I picked up some Meguier's 1--I watched all the vids and then some..and tried again on the hood and the swirls are still there. It's a little frustrating. I've invested several hours of time learning and working and on products but still do not see much in results. The car is shiny and all but now that I have this knowledge the swirls just stick out to me. I clay barred and took my time. I feel like I can do it..but something is elusive here. Maybe more and more passes? I spent about 20 minutes on a 2x2 part of the hood with the polisher.

[Detailed Image]

Originally Posted by jgoens

So, I picked up some Meguier's 1--I watched all the vids and then some..and tried again on the hood and the swirls are still there. It's a little frustrating. I've invested several hours of time learning and working and on products but still do not see much in results. The car is shiny and all but now that I have this knowledge the swirls just stick out to me. I clay barred and took my time. I feel like I can do it..but something is elusive here. Maybe more and more passes? I spent about 20 minutes on a 2x2 part of the hood with the polisher.

Often times technique is the culprit, however let's go over everything again just to help narrow down possible weak points in your process.

Are you using a cutting pad with the M105?

How many section passes are you making? (one section pass = one pass in one direction... ie if you go horizontal, then vertical, then horizontal, you have made 3 section passes)

- How much pressure are you using?
- What machine speed?
- How fast/slow are you moving (arm speed)?
- Have you marked the backing plate to ensure the pad is maintaining rotation?
- Are you priming the pad?
- How much working product are you using?
- Can you please take some before/after photos... or even a video of you working on a section so I can help to troubleshoot and diagnose your technique.

psnt1ol has shared some great information already, but this sort of work does take a lot of time to get right. Practice and patience are the key to understanding proper paint correction.

For more information, be sure to check out our comprehensive Detailing Guide and Ask-A-Pro Blog which features articles from many top professionals.


Polishing How To with Meguiar’s M105 / M205 by Todd Cooperider

Video: Surbuf Pads, M105, and the Porter Cable 7424XP by Todd Cooperider


I look forward to helping you out! Please let me know if you've got any other questions

Zach McGovern
Detailed Image Ask-A-Pro Blog Author
www.AttentiontoDetailingPeoria.com

[jgoens]

Originally Posted by Detailed Image

Often times technique is the culprit, however let's go over everything again just to help narrow down possible weak points in your process.

Are you using a cutting pad with the M105?

How many section passes are you making? (one section pass = one pass in one direction... ie if you go horizontal, then vertical, then horizontal, you have made 3 section passes)

- How much pressure are you using?
- What machine speed?
- How fast/slow are you moving (arm speed)?
- Have you marked the backing plate to ensure the pad is maintaining rotation?
- Are you priming the pad?
- How much working product are you using?
- Can you please take some before/after photos... or even a video of you working on a section so I can help to troubleshoot and diagnose your technique.

psnt1ol has shared some great information already, but this sort of work does take a lot of time to get right. Practice and patience are the key to understanding proper paint correction.

For more information, be sure to check out our comprehensive Detailing Guide and Ask-A-Pro Blog which features articles from many top professionals.


Polishing How To with Meguiar’s M105 / M205 by Todd Cooperider

Video: Surbuf Pads, M105, and the Porter Cable 7424XP by Todd Cooperider


I look forward to helping you out! Please let me know if you've got any other questions

Zach McGovern
Detailed Image Ask-A-Pro Blog Author
www.AttentiontoDetailingPeoria.com

Thanks for the info Zach. I am using a black pad by surehold. I bought some Meguiers mirror glaze medium cut #1. I was taking the advice to use a lesser abrasive polish first. I am priming the pad and put 3 pea sized drops. I was pushing down lightly as the machine weighs maybe 5 pounds. I was trying to do what I saw in the Junkman video. I was using speed 4 and then slowing it down..did about 3 passes and did not add more polish. I did notice that with this machine the higher speeds do not seem to translate to better spinning..it seems like it has more torque and works harder at slower speeds. I was hoping that even if I don't have the absolute best products with good technique I can get the job done even if it takes me longer.

I did not mark the backing plate..guess that might help. I did notice today in the bright sunlight that the swirls have lessened..maybe 30%...but they are clearly visible. I will try to do some pics and maybe vid next week when I attempt again.

[mbanks21]

That black pad is designed for polish not for buffing. You need a more aggressive pad like an orange Lake County pad

[psnt1ol]

Originally Posted by jgoens

Thanks for the info Zach. I am using a black pad by surehold. I bought some Meguiers mirror glaze medium cut #1. I was taking the advice to use a lesser abrasive polish first. I am priming the pad and put 3 pea sized drops. I was pushing down lightly as the machine weighs maybe 5 pounds. I was trying to do what I saw in the Junkman video. I was using speed 4 and then slowing it down..did about 3 passes and did not add more polish. I did notice that with this machine the higher speeds do not seem to translate to better spinning..it seems like it has more torque and works harder at slower speeds. I was hoping that even if I don't have the absolute best products with good technique I can get the job done even if it takes me longer.

I did not mark the backing plate..guess that might help. I did notice today in the bright sunlight that the swirls have lessened..maybe 30%...but they are clearly visible. I will try to do some pics and maybe vid next week when I attempt again.

The Black pad is a finishing pad. It's meant for jeweling or to lay down a layer of LSP. It really doesn't have enough abrasion to do the type of corrections you are after. You will need more aggressive pads.

Next level up-White polishing pad
http://www.detailedimage.com/Lake-Co...57/55-inch-S2/

Next level after the white pad-Orange light cutting pad
http://www.detailedimage.com/Lake-Co...58/55-inch-S2/

I seldom use orange pads. I tend to use fibers for the heavy corrections (another topic in itself). In general, good techniques will trump good products. It takes time to develop good techniques and best practices.

Too bad I am out of town or I would help you out since you don't live too far from me.

[jgoens]

Originally Posted by psnt1ol

The Black pad is a finishing pad. It's meant for jeweling or to lay down a layer of LSP. It really doesn't have enough abrasion to do the type of corrections you are after. You will need more aggressive pads.

Next level up-White polishing pad
http://www.detailedimage.com/Lake-Co...57/55-inch-S2/

Next level after the white pad-Orange light cutting pad
http://www.detailedimage.com/Lake-Co...58/55-inch-S2/

I seldom use orange pads. I tend to use fibers for the heavy corrections (another topic in itself). In general, good techniques will trump good products. It takes time to develop good techniques and best practices.

Too bad I am out of town or I would help you out since you don't live too far from me.

I would take that offer up gladly if you are around at some point--I would just like to be able to demonstrate that I can get a panel perfect. So, should I just order the orange pad? Or the white pad? I haven't found any of these pads in the stores around--seems like they are online only. But once again, I can have all the tools, but if I don't use them right, I'm wasting my time. I really think I learned a lot watching all those videos and am even ready to go to the two bucket wash system. I've put some decent time and money into this now. I don't really think I need heavy corrections, however there are a handful of more moderate scratches. Thing is, is now when I look at cars all I see are the swirls.

[psnt1ol]

Originally Posted by jgoens

Thing is, is now when I look at cars all I see are the swirls.

This is how the madness begins.....

Is your car jet black or metallic???? Most Jet black has soft paint and I never had to use an orange pad on it. But.....some colors are rock hard and those will need an aggressive approach.

PM sent....

[jgoens]

Originally Posted by psnt1ol

This is how the madness begins.....

Is your car jet black or metallic???? Most Jet black has soft paint and I never had to use an orange pad on it. But.....some colors are rock hard and those will need an aggressive approach.

PM sent....

My car is Black Sapphire. The madness starts when you see the pics of all the really nice looking cars on the forum and start digging into how they got them that way and then with a little knowledge you realize that 99% of the cars out there and even the ones that look pretty nice have swirls.

[Detailed Image]

Originally Posted by jgoens

My car is Black Sapphire. The madness starts when you see the pics of all the really nice looking cars on the forum and start digging into how they got them that way and then with a little knowledge you realize that 99% of the cars out there and even the ones that look pretty nice have swirls.

Sapphire Metallic is quite hard relatively speaking. We've worked on many throughout the years, and I tend to find that I really enjoy using Meguiar's D300 on Microfiber Cutting Pads to remove moderate to heavier defects and then follow up with Meguiar's M205 on a white polishing pad to refine the finish. If your paint is in above average shape to begin with, you will likely not need the compounding step of the process.


The following photo shows a 50/50 shot after compounding the front door with D300 on a MF Cutting Disc.




Before correction


After 4 section passes (horizontal, vertical, horizontal, then vertical) with D300 on 5.5" MF Cutting Disc via Rupes LHR21ES. Notice the majority of defects were removed, but not all of them... perhaps another few passes with D300 would have removed the remaining defects if desired.



After polishing and applying Optimum Gloss-Coat, the end result was very deep color, with crisp reflections.




Zach McGovern
Detailed Image Ask-A-Pro Blog Author
www.AttentiontoDetailingPeoria.com

[jgoens]

Originally Posted by Detailed Image

Sapphire Metallic is quite hard relatively speaking. We've worked on many throughout the years, and I tend to find that I really enjoy using Meguiar's D300 on Microfiber Cutting Pads to remove moderate to heavier defects and then follow up with Meguiar's M205 on a white polishing pad to refine the finish. If your paint is in above average shape to begin with, you will likely not need the compounding step of the process.


The following photo shows a 50/50 shot after compounding the front door with D300 on a MF Cutting Disc.




Before correction


After 4 section passes (horizontal, vertical, horizontal, then vertical) with D300 on 5.5" MF Cutting Disc via Rupes LHR21ES. Notice the majority of defects were removed, but not all of them... perhaps another few passes with D300 would have removed the remaining defects if desired.



After polishing and applying Optimum Gloss-Coat, the end result was very deep color, with crisp reflections.




Zach McGovern
Detailed Image Ask-A-Pro Blog Author
www.AttentiontoDetailingPeoria.com

Wow! Great finished product. My car is not as bad as that one at start.
I ordered an orange and white pad from DI this morning.

[jgoens]

I tried the orange pad and the white pad yesterday. Used Meguiers 1. Still weak results. Went over a small portion of the hood about 10 times. I took a pic of an area I did compared to one I did not polish, in the sunlight but you cannot see the swirls well. Actually on a look a minute ago, I think I made it worse and made some new scratches..not circular but straight ones. I put a little pressure and various speeds. I know they say use speed 5 on some polishers..you guys know what speed is good for the surehold one I have? I may give it another shot later this afternoon on the trunk which has pretty decent swirls. Late in the day or early in the morning is the only time I can get the car out of direct sunlight.

[Detailed Image]

Use this video as a guide for technique... use very slow arm speed, moderate pressure while still allowing the pad to maintain rotation, overlap passes, etc. This was me working on a 335i a couple of years ago.

Straight line scratches cannot be produced while polishing a vehicle... they must have been introduced while you were wiping away product. Be sure you are using premium grade microfiber that is very soft and completely clean.


Please read this article about performing test spots and analyzing your results before spending any more time working on your vehicle. Test spots are an absolutely critical part of the paint correction process. There is no way of knowing what pads / product will produce the exact results for your vehicle without doing some testing. It also sounds like you need some proper inspection lighting.

Analyzing Your Test Spot by Zach McGovern


If you've got any specific questions about the process, please let me know. Again, it would be VERY beneficial if you could take a video of yourself working, along with some before/after photos of the areas you are working on so I can try to help you determine what might speed up your progress.

Zach McGovern
Detailed Image Ask-A-Pro Blog Author
www.AttentiontoDetailingPeoria.com

[jgoens]

So, I went over my scratches today on the hood with the white pad and then the black surehold pad with the Meguiers mirror polish and I was able to take out the scratches I made. I used different technique in that I used much less pressure and that seemed to work better. I'm a fairly strong guy so pushing down might be too much. I noticed when I push down the pad does not rotate that well so I let the machine do the work and it seems to be a bit better. I went for the trunk area and was able to get it down to about 50%...a bit better. Don't get me wrong..the areas I am working look like a mirror..but I put it in the sun and still see the scratches. I feel like I am doing the same thing as the video...I think I am on the edge to "getting it." Really I actually like doing this..kind of relaxing. But..the glory is still not there.