[iaknown]

OK techies (You know who you are ), humor me.... Have been kicking around the idea of a manual trans conversion in the D. So the ideal setup would be to make a custom bellhousing and run a Tremec. Too much fabricating for me at the moment even though its tempting (not ruling it out completely ) But lets go another route for now....

How about running a 335i manual trans? Now hold on before you start using caps lock.....BMW opted for the auto because of the torque but we all know we're pushing the limits of the auto in stock form. And more power is most likely in my near future. So its either mod the trans or go manual. Talking to the N54 guys got me thinking.... some of these guys are pushing 800whp, around 700ft lbs of torque, on the stock manual. And its not doing too shabby. They are getting lockout on 2nd gear from a dig but that's another discussion. Something to think about.

Now the big problem, gear ratios. We have a (useless) 4.17 first and a .69 6th with a 2.81 final, yields a 1.938 combined ratio. Their autos are the same with a higher final, ends up as a 2.39 combined. Their manual is a 4.06 first and a .87 6th with a 3.08 final, 2.68 combined ratio. So basically that equates to too much revving/shifting and not enough top speed.

BUT, what about a few other options. Maybe a 2.56 DCT final drive? This would yield a 2.22 combined ratio. OR possibly changing the 6th gear in the trans? Yes I know its a longshot, but I don't think we've had a real in-depth discussion on this. What's your input?

Here's another idea. I know the 530D and 535D (I think) had a manual in Europe, can we find out the torque capacity and compatibility? I believe at least one of them was behind the M57 over there. Perhaps some of the Euro guys can help us out on that....

[kg4kdn]

I've been wondering about this as well but although I am a very good aircraft mechanic, I've not messed with the d a fraction of what you and some of the guys have. I do understand that the 335i trans with our final drive would be too low of a gear with they limited rpm range that we have with the diesels. Did BMW never offer the d w/ manual in Europe? In my Miata days, I replaced my 5th gear out with a taller RX-7 5th gear to get lower rpm and top end. Our cars are much more sophisticated though. It would be an awesome experience to have a manual in my car.

[DSB335d]

There is a manual trans option for this car everywhere else beside North America. Wouldn't it be easier to find out the right part number and search for a used transmission across the pond.

[Yozh]

330d came with a manual gearbox over in Europe.

[Hoooper]

I would be inclined to source a more stout transmission from the get go and just use an adapter plate. That will also get you more gear ratio choices. Something like a tr6060 would be real nice

[w3fl3x]

Originally Posted by Hoooper

I would be inclined to source a more stout transmission from the get go and just use an adapter plate. That will also get you more gear ratio choices. Something like a tr6060 would be real nice

I'm guessing a new drive shaft would be needed for this option?

[mob17]

What about the ZF boxes in the 7 series. Someone posted some info on the other thread...

[Hoooper]

Originally Posted by w3fl3x

I'm guessing a new drive shaft would be needed for this option?

A new driveshaft will be needed regardless of choice unless you get really lucky. Driveshafts are easy.

[What_A_D]

Any thoughts on sourcing a salvaged m3 manual?

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by iaknown

...
... I know the 530D and 535D (I think) had a manual in Europe, can we find out the torque capacity and compatibility? I believe at least one of them was behind the M57 over there. Perhaps some of the Euro guys can help us out on that....

Originally Posted by DSB335d

There is a manual trans option for this car everywhere else beside North America. Wouldn't it be easier to find out the right part number and search for a used transmission across the pond.

BMW NEVER NEVER NEVER (I and others have posted this too many times... ) sold a '35d anywhere in the world with a manual transmission.

30d, yes.

The main trouble is that an MT (or DCT) to take the torque is difficult to fit under the car. Even a V8 M3's tranny (which would be the first choice because it fits) doesn't have the beefiness needed (lower torque from the V8.)

And you haven't even talked about modifications to the DDE (tune) to neuter the transmission's TCU interface.

There have been a couple previous threads on this, BTW. Good luck to you!

[iaknown]

Thanks for the feedback guys...

Originally Posted by Yozh

330d came with a manual gearbox over in Europe.

The 6th gear ratio for the 330d (GS6-53DZ) I am finding is .84 which would put the gearing in the same boat as the 335i trans. If you find otherwise please let me know.

Originally Posted by Hoooper

I would be inclined to source a more stout transmission from the get go and just use an adapter plate. That will also get you more gear ratio choices. Something like a tr6060 would be real nice

So are you thinking an adapter plate for a common bellhousing? Like a Ford bellhousing or something similar? I think I just stumbled on the bolt pattern and dimensions for our motors so that is a start....

Originally Posted by mob17

What about the ZF boxes in the 7 series. Someone posted some info on the other thread...

Do you have more info on this gearbox? If is the one from the 730d I think it is a 5 speed without overdrive....so no-go

Originally Posted by floydarogers

The main trouble is that an MT (or DCT) to take the torque is difficult to fit under the car. Even a V8 M3's tranny (which would be the first choice because it fits) doesn't have the beefiness needed (lower torque from the V8.)

And you haven't even talked about modifications to the DDE (tune) to neuter the transmission's TCU interface.

There have been a couple previous threads on this, BTW. Good luck to you!

I believe the V8 M3 is the gas version of the 330d trans above, so the GS6-53BZ. And yea, same issue with torque rating and gearing as well.

Not too worried about the DDE tuning just yet. Probably a valid concern but if tuners here are cracking for emissions, SCR, etc, they can probably turn off the codes and limp modes cause from a trans missing Of course the DSC and ABS may be a different story.

I have seen your posts in some of the threads in the past on this subject and appreciate you sharing. If you have anything else to add, please do.

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by iaknown

...If you have anything else to add, please do.

Not totally germane to the subject at hand, but I've been reading this thread (http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1164655) about deleting the center diff and (eventually) the front diff & axles on a F31 xDrive wagon to get RWD. They discuss a bit about transmission programming (won't be as bad on an E90) and manufacturing a new rear/transmission cross brace/mount. Subjects that will be dear to your heart if you do this.

One other thing: BMW didn't do it because they have reliability standards; your requirements for reliability probably aren't that high. I'd probably source a tranny for a 330d and try that as a first step... That will get you through some hurdles and then it's a matter of finding the right tranny for extended use. Also, if the MT has a TCU and you can figure out which gear you're in, you could have the TCU limit power/torque in lower gears via it's connection to the DDE.

[DWR]

Originally Posted by iaknown

Have been kicking around the idea of a manual trans conversion in the D. So the ideal setup would be to make a custom bellhousing and run a Tremec. Too much fabricating for me at the moment

Don't need a custom bellhousing. Need an adaptor plate. Hydraulic release bearings make the spacing issue much easier. Been down this route with a V8 into a Porsche. Made the plate myself and I don't have half the skills that you have. And there are already adapter plates for the Tremecs that could be modified. It is surprisingly easy. PM me if you want more details. Otherwise, good luck finding a BMW trans.

[iaknown]

Originally Posted by floydarogers

Not totally germane to the subject at hand, but I've been reading this thread (http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1164655) about deleting the center diff and (eventually) the front diff & axles on a F31 xDrive wagon to get RWD. They discuss a bit about transmission programming (won't be as bad on an E90) and manufacturing a new rear/transmission cross brace/mount. Subjects that will be dear to your heart if you do this.

One other thing: BMW didn't do it because they have reliability standards; your requirements for reliability probably aren't that high. I'd probably source a tranny for a 330d and try that as a first step... That will get you through some hurdles and then it's a matter of finding the right tranny for extended use. Also, if the MT has a TCU and you can figure out which gear you're in, you could have the TCU limit power/torque in lower gears via it's connection to the DDE.

Very interesting link! Thanks. The 330d trans still doesn't appear to be worth it because of improper gear ratios. Looks like they run a different diff ratio to make it work, kind of defeats the purpose of using that trans.

Originally Posted by DWR

Don't need a custom bellhousing. Need an adaptor plate. Hydraulic release bearings make the spacing issue much easier. Been down this route with a V8 into a Porsche. Made the plate myself and I don't have half the skills that you have. And there are already adapter plates for the Tremecs that could be modified. It is surprisingly easy. PM me if you want more details. Otherwise, good luck finding a BMW trans.

I'm picking up what you're putting down.....I've been researching many BMW gearboxes and am coming up with nothing. An adapter is definitely doable and the Tremec options are looking better and better.


Here's another issue guys.....The 330D M57 flywheel should work in our cars. However, in stock form it was a dual mass setup, which doesn't work at all for making serious power. I have found a few companies that make solid performance flywheels for the 330D. My next concern is clutch rattle, especially being in our diesel. I see guys having this issue with the 330D too. Those that have modded diesel cars and possibly tdi's may have more experience in this field. Any input on this and/or how to prevent it?

[DSB335d]

Why not upgrade the internals of the auto vs. a manual swap? There a several diesel performance companies that cater to the diesel trucks here in the states. I wouldn't doubt that the clutches/steels or solenoids for the valve body would fit this transmission. A performance torque converter might be a challenge. As this transmission isn't as big.

I just don't see the point of a manual as the useable power band is so narrow.

[Hoooper]

Originally Posted by iaknown

Very interesting link! Thanks. The 330d trans still doesn't appear to be worth it because of improper gear ratios. Looks like they run a different diff ratio to make it work, kind of defeats the purpose of using that trans.

I'm picking up what you're putting down.....I've been researching many BMW gearboxes and am coming up with nothing. An adapter is definitely doable and the Tremec options are looking better and better.


Here's another issue guys.....The 330D M57 flywheel should work in our cars. However, in stock form it was a dual mass setup, which doesn't work at all for making serious power. I have found a few companies that make solid performance flywheels for the 330D. My next concern is clutch rattle, especially being in our diesel. I see guys having this issue with the 330D too. Those that have modded diesel cars and possibly tdi's may have more experience in this field. Any input on this and/or how to prevent it?

That shouldn't be an issue if you end up with a tremec. Your clutch options should be pretty wide open for that, anything from 300 lb-ft to above 1000 lb-ft and definitely options that are proven for solid flywheels. If you use a clutch that is designed for a dual mass flywheel on a solid flywheel it will chatter like a mofo, it has to be a sprung clutch meant for a solid flywheel.

[torqueisking]

what hooper said but I'd go with the TUKT12021
700 ft-lb torque capacity and the following gear ratios
2.97 2.10 1.46 1.00 .80 .63 R2.90

[iaknown]

Originally Posted by DSB335d

Why not upgrade the internals of the auto vs. a manual swap? There a several diesel performance companies that cater to the diesel trucks here in the states. I wouldn't doubt that the clutches/steels or solenoids for the valve body would fit this transmission. A performance torque converter might be a challenge. As this transmission isn't as big.

I just don't see the point of a manual as the useable power band is so narrow.

Upgrading the auto is not a problem as I can have Bohl Diesel build a modded one for me anytime I'm ready. I'm a manual guy tho. Plus I like having a unique setup in my personal vehicles if practical. And yea, it may or may not be the most practical but neither is our transmission programming, I'm tired of having my auto choose the wrong gear half of the time.....

Originally Posted by Hoooper

That shouldn't be an issue if you end up with a tremec. Your clutch options should be pretty wide open for that, anything from 300 lb-ft to above 1000 lb-ft and definitely options that are proven for solid flywheels. If you use a clutch that is designed for a dual mass flywheel on a solid flywheel it will chatter like a mofo, it has to be a sprung clutch meant for a solid flywheel.

Good point, although I think even some of the 330D guys were using sprung clutch discs and still getting chatter. I will have to confirm that.

The bad thing is I'd be limited to a 330d pressure plate with a 330d flywheel, unless I made my own flywheel of course. The good thing is I can run a Tremec splined clutch disc which should give me many more options as you pointed out.

Originally Posted by torqueisking

what hooper said but I'd go with the TUKT12021
700 ft-lb torque capacity and the following gear ratios
2.97 2.10 1.46 1.00 .80 .63 R2.90

I was looking at that trans though the TR-6060 in the 2007 GT500 Mustang can be found much cheaper if bought rebuilt and/or used. Or the Camaro trans with a 2.66 1st gear, which can also be found reasonable used/rebuilt.

[DWR]

If you want to stick with a BMW trans, the M3's seem to live with nearly 1000Hp. Haven't checked ratios, so that maybe interesting ... of course you'll need a mounting adapter.

[BB_cuda]

Iaknown,
I tried to post this from iphone when i was out of town this last weekend. It locked up on me in edit mode. Something about pushing backspace button too quickly and i lost all of what I was trying to enter. Try #2 below.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...ight=bodacious

Not sure if you read over at Bimmerfest/diesel section. I guy named Bodacious bought (2) M57 engines and in the above thread was going through the hot rod process with them. He ultimately had to stop as he wanted be ready for drag racing season so he put this project on the shelf. Somewhere in there, he talks about options with transmissions, flywheels, and torque converters. OF course his goal was purely for the 1/4 mile track. So, anything beyond 4th gear (1:1) ratio wasn't of his concern. I'm word searching within it now.

The Bodacious guy is super nice and basically gave Yozh and i parts for the cost of shipping. We gave him more than he needed as a gesture of our appreciation. This is where i got the obsolete design EGR valve and spare intake manifold. He hangs out over on Competition Diesel Forum if you want to ask him questions.

[335duff]

I've thought about this as well. Would upgrading the clutch on an e90 m3 transmission help, or is it the gears that cannot handle the power?

Also there is a transmission from drenth sold for m57, not really for a street application though.

http://www.drenth-gearboxes.com/prod...g-gearbox.html

[BB_cuda]

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...7&postcount=10

here is a hit on adapter where he has interest in using a lenco.