[DJKapeesh]

Article Link

http://mashable.com/2015/11/04/chine...-#Y8Yd9p6Kh5qw



"BMW and Toyota have been in a secret partnership for several years, sharing technology, according Autocar. BMW will give Toyota its carbon fiber tech while Toyota will share its hydrogen technology. So this rendering might well be the result of that partnership, at least BMW's half."

I remember Honda also had a working hydrogen car a while back which was reviewed by top gear. Thoughts on this anyone? Would you prefer Hydrogen to the all electric?

[MightyMouseTech]

Honda has had a hydrogen power car out there for quite a while. It is a huge flop.

[jwzimm]

The question still remains, where the hell do you get the hydrogen?! Reacting hydrogen in a fuel cell is, at best, a one-for-one energy relationship if you use hydrogen obtained through electrolysis of water. The only other viable way to obtain it is to reform fossil fuels at which point, you are back to the same problem we have now.

[Meeni]

Mercedes, Renault, Volvo, etc all had an hydrogen car sometimes in the 90s, early 00s. Producing hydrogen is very energy intensive, it leaks, it explodes very hard in contact with oxygen.

[David70]

Originally Posted by jwzimm

The question still remains, where the hell do you get the hydrogen?! Reacting hydrogen in a fuel cell is, at best, a one-for-one energy relationship if you use hydrogen obtained through electrolysis of water. The only other viable way to obtain it is to reform fossil fuels at which point, you are back to the same problem we have now.

X2. Unless you have fleet of vehicles that all leave from one place or go by one place, go out and come back at the end of the day (UPS, postal, city buses) I don't see the infrastructure ever working out. Creating enough places to plug in electric cars is tough enough and electricity is everywhere.

[jwzimm]

Originally Posted by David70

X2. Unless you have fleet of vehicles that all leave from one place or go by one place, go out and come back at the end of the day (UPS, postal, city buses) I don't see the infrastructure ever working out. Creating enough places to plug in electric cars is tough enough and electricity is everywhere.

Forget distribution, where do you obtain hydrogen to supply the filling stations in the first place?

People seem to think we have hydrogen just laying around. We actually do but it is locked up in other forms (most commonly water). The problem is that in order to extract that hydrogen from those sources you must input energy.

For example, extraction from water:

When you electrolyze water you have to use an electric current. Where does the electricity come from? Also, the amount of energy you input to separate the water is EXACTLY the same amount you would retrieve if you perfectly reacted the hydrogen produced again. The problem is that fuel cells are not perfect. Even the best ones struggle to get about 30-40% efficiency. That means the whole process is a net negative situation.

Another example is reformation of fossil fuels:

You can extract hydrogen from natural gas. The issue here is that, in addition to having to input energy into the process, you will be stripping off the carbon from the gas. Normally this results in the production of carbon dioxide. It is that gas that is the main source of the problem with using fossil fuels. It is a greenhouse gas. Also, we are again reliant on a non-renewable resource.

What needs to happen is research needs to continue into the creation of a better battery. If we can find a way to make a battery with the same or similar energy density (joules per gram) as fossil fuels we can solve it. You can then centralize the generation of the energy in places were renewable sources are abundant (hydroelectric, solar, wind, etc...) and transport the energy to where it is needed. It is all about storage.

[SCOTT26]

BMW have had production albeit exclusive Hydrogen 7ers H7 under two generations. But this research vehicle is old more than a few years old.