[neroneuman]

Hello Guys,

I'm going to go FBO soon and waiting on the parts. I have few questions here.

1)With the FBO mods, what is the reliable WBHP limit for N54 platform on stock turbos? I know the LSx V8 engines do 400 HP comfortably all day long. Similarly what is the safe operating limit for these cars with respect to HP to the wheel?

2)Also what items needs to be replaced before hooking up the mods, like fresh spark plugs etc. I'm getting my WP/Tstat fixed since they failed, apart from that any preventive maintenance needs to be done before FBO. (I don't want to be stranded on the FWY, I was already once )

3) Once FBO is done, I believe LSD and M3 suspension bits are in order. So without these mods, which of the stock components will be the stressed/damaged? And will I be having traction issues , wheel hop or other side effects without them?

4) Once we fix the Catless DPs, is it required to remove the secondary cats so that they don't get clogged?


Thanks,
Sanjeevi

[matthewo]

As far as the engine internally there isn't really a specific point that people have seen the engine become overly stressed to specific component failure.

Obviously there are failures out there with high hp cars, but there are also a lot out there doing just fine. When you talk about FBO of around 400-450 whp on pump or e85 I don't know of any failures that can be directly related. Most failures are ones that could happen on stock cars unmodified. I think with the vast number of cars running 400-450ish whp with few failures would lead me to believe these engines are very reliable in this power level and increase of failures is minimal when tuned conservatily.

Things that could be common is trans issues or clutch if 6mt. Seems like stock clutch can be good up to about 425whp, depending on condition and autos really depend on tuning but should hold over 500 or more if in good shape but the auto can really be a toss up

[matthewo]

LSD will be a great upgrade, it's expensive but well worth it I really miss mine in my previous car. I have not upgraded my 335i with an LSD but would like to.

I would remove secondary cats if you don't mind the smell, if you run around half e85 with upgraded lpfp it doesn't smell much and these cars make great power on e85 mixes

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by neroneuman

Hello Guys,

I'm going to go FBO soon and waiting on the parts. I have few questions here.

1)With the FBO mods, what is the reliable WBHP limit for N54 platform on stock turbos? I know the LSx V8 engines do 400 HP comfortably all day long. Similarly what is the safe operating limit for these cars with respect to HP to the wheel?

2)Also what items needs to be replaced before hooking up the mods, like fresh spark plugs etc. I'm getting my WP/Tstat fixed since they failed, apart from that any preventive maintenance needs to be done before FBO. (I don't want to be stranded on the FWY, I was already once )

3) Once FBO is done, I believe LSD and M3 suspension bits are in order. So without these mods, which of the stock components will be the stressed/damaged? And will I be having traction issues , wheel hop or other side effects without them?

4) Once we fix the Catless DPs, is it required to remove the secondary cats so that they don't get clogged?


Thanks,
Sanjeevi

Keep it between 400-450 whp
I recommend you replace your spark plugs and keep an eye on your injectors, ignition coils and fuel pumps
It is not required to remove the secondary cats

Good luck and let me know if you have more questions

[KiwiRD]

This is something I think about too - though I probably overthink it. I don't consider coils or plugs anything to stress about as they are just maintenance issues. My concerns would be around the fuel pump being up to the task, head gasket sustaining the additional boost (though it is a triple layer head gasket stock), piston ring lands and general additional heat management. The old school of thought says that the engine was only designed to reliably handle 300 bhp, and therefore that is the figure at which we should expect longevity. However, if the engine was designed by the factory to produce 400 bhp and was subsequently detuned for marketing purposes, then we should be reasonably safe at tuned levels. But, in the absence of rumor, how does anyone know what the engine was actually designed to handle for more than short bursts.

[Grand_hustle17]

Hence why tuning is always key.. Tweaking the engine to run efficiently.

[limitdown]

I daily drive an FBO at 19psi with stock turbos.

The engine block, head gasket, rods, pistons and rings are almost bulletproof. There are many guys in the 600 to 700+ whp range still running 7+ yr old bone stock blocks. I've only seen 3 or 4 people here and on the other forum who have had problems with it. If you check their threads, you'll see that most were running much higher whp's. Most were also using methanol as supplemental fuelling and not just as an octane booster. I've personally avoided methanol.

I would be more concerned about injectors, HPFP, LPFP, valve cover, PCV, smoking, hunting down boost and vacuum leaks, oil pan gasket leak, O2 sensors. Many of these problems are much more prevalent on our cars than on others.

Many people here have replaced their injectors, HPFP's and LPFP's multiple times (myself included). These are very expensive fixes if not under warranty.

Smoking is also a very common problem. There are literally dozens of things that can cause smoking. There is probably one new thread per week on smoking.

Before turning up the boost, get MHD and log, check, fix. After all weaknesses have been revealed and fixed, go for a mild Stage 1 tune, log, check, fix. Repeat log, check, fix. Until everything is ironed out. Then go to Stage 2 and do the same. The stronger tune might not be the cause of parts breaking. It will just reveal weak, old, dying parts of your car.

When you turn up the boost, your charge pipe will likely burst and you'll get a 30FF boost leak code. At stock boost levels, the charge pipe might still leak.

I have an MFactory LSD and I love it, but the only reason I got it is because my old diff was dying (really loud diff whine and grind). If my original diff was ok, I would probably have gotten an LSD at a much later time. Way after I ironed out all of my other problems.

Even in its stock state, having a 5 to 6 yr old N54 means you'll need to prepare $10 to 15k over the next 2 to 3yrs just in repairs. That's not even including mods (ask me how I know). Sorry to say, but our cars are just downright unreliable....

[Antetokounmpo]

I'd keep the boost under 21.5psi for a DD. Obviously you'll need to log and even see if your turbos are in good enough shape to do this, some are on the cusp of failing and can't hit 21 or whatnot. This will require an upgraded lpfp for E85, pump gas you're limited to about 17psi usually. E60, 21psi tune, with supporting bolt ons will hit 450whp. As long as the tune is solid, there won't be issues. You'll need new spark plugs before you tune it.

Also, before you go crazy with the tune, install the catless dps, the stock dps are a bottleneck on higher boost levels (18psi+). Eventually the secondary cats will clog, so it's not a bad idea.

[Jaronbwall]

I would replace spark plugs, coils, and walnut blast the intake before going FBO. If you plan to run a Tial BOV I would replace the lines with 1/4'', and add the metal barb to the intake (while doing walnut blast).

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by limitdown

The engine block, head gasket, rods, pistons and rings are almost bulletproof. There are many guys in the 600 to 700+ whp range still running 7+ yr old bone stock blocks. I've only seen 3 or 4 people here and on the other forum who have had problems with it. If you check their threads, you'll see that most were running much higher whp's. Most were also using methanol as supplemental fuelling and not just as an octane booster. I've personally avoided methanol.

I would be more concerned about injectors, HPFP, LPFP, valve cover, PCV, smoking, hunting down boost and vacuum leaks, oil pan gasket leak, O2 sensors. Many of these problems are much more prevalent on our cars than on others.

+1

Add to the list the oil filter housing gaskets as well.

Keep boost in the 18-20 range and you should be more then fine. Just make sure your logs looks good for whatever boost values you are running.

Mike

[chmerlinn]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

+1

Add to the list the oil filter housing gaskets as well.

Keep boost in the 18-20 range and you should be more then fine. Just make sure your logs looks good for whatever boost values you are running.

Mike

New to the tune game here, just picked up a Procede Rev 3. What are the key things to look for in logging? Fuel delivery consistency, boost/vacuum values, what else? I dont intend to do any custom mapping for the time being, last i played with that was on a cbr engine, much more at risk here..

[bantam]

Originally Posted by limitdown

I daily drive an FBO at 19psi with stock turbos.

The engine block, head gasket, rods, pistons and rings are almost bulletproof. There are many guys in the 600 to 700+ whp range still running 7+ yr old bone stock blocks. I've only seen 3 or 4 people here and on the other forum who have had problems with it. If you check their threads, you'll see that most were running much higher whp's. Most were also using methanol as supplemental fuelling and not just as an octane booster. I've personally avoided methanol.

I would be more concerned about injectors, HPFP, LPFP, valve cover, PCV, smoking, hunting down boost and vacuum leaks, oil pan gasket leak, O2 sensors. Many of these problems are much more prevalent on our cars than on others.

Many people here have replaced their injectors, HPFP's and LPFP's multiple times (myself included). These are very expensive fixes if not under warranty.

Smoking is also a very common problem. There are literally dozens of things that can cause smoking. There is probably one new thread per week on smoking.

Before turning up the boost, get MHD and log, check, fix. After all weaknesses have been revealed and fixed, go for a mild Stage 1 tune, log, check, fix. Repeat log, check, fix. Until everything is ironed out. Then go to Stage 2 and do the same. The stronger tune might not be the cause of parts breaking. It will just reveal weak, old, dying parts of your car.

When you turn up the boost, your charge pipe will likely burst and you'll get a 30FF boost leak code. At stock boost levels, the charge pipe might still leak.

I have an MFactory LSD and I love it, but the only reason I got it is because my old diff was dying (really loud diff whine and grind). If my original diff was ok, I would probably have gotten an LSD at a much later time. Way after I ironed out all of my other problems.

Even in its stock state, having a 5 to 6 yr old N54 means you'll need to prepare $10 to 15k over the next 2 to 3yrs just in repairs. That's not even including mods (ask me how I know). Sorry to say, but our cars are just downright unreliable....

One would have to really be naive and unlucky to spend that kind of money on auto maintenance in the US.

In my 2.5 years and 20,000 miles of owning my car (2009), I have spent maybe $2k on maintenance?

Rear brakes: $300
Tires: $600
Oil changes: $300
AC re-charge: $200 (this was expensive because the shop I went to charged me some excessive diagnosis fees).
2 ignition coils and spark plugs: $300

overall pretty cheap to own for a sporty used car.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by chmiel21

New to the tune game here, just picked up a Procede Rev 3. What are the key things to look for in logging? Fuel delivery consistency, boost/vacuum values, what else? I dont intend to do any custom mapping for the time being, last i played with that was on a cbr engine, much more at risk here..

As for preparing the car the number one issue people run into is old spark plugs when installing a tune and getting misfires.

If running off the shelf maps just make sure you get no CELs and run the proper fuel for the maps. Beyond that its pretty simple. You can always post a log for review. Third gear, 2K-6K pull.

Mike

[suprchrgd]

Originally Posted by chmiel21

New to the tune game here, just picked up a Procede Rev 3. What are the key things to look for in logging? Fuel delivery consistency, boost/vacuum values, what else? I dont intend to do any custom mapping for the time being, last i played with that was on a cbr engine, much more at risk here..

i would also look into MHD or a JB4 and return the procede

[neroneuman]

Cool. Thanks guys.

I'm going to change the plugs and get walnut blasting done before FBO.

for FBO, I'm going to install JB4, DCI, CP with Tial, OCC, FMIC, DP , RB PCV, vent, cap, in that order.

I would need help for FMIC, DP and RB PCV items.

I will also do the Tial BOV line mod and replace the coils.

Does BMW High Performance Ignition Coil make any difference than OEM BMW coils?

I would go with E85 or E60 later. Not planning meth.

As suggested, I will get MHD and start logging before FBO and through each mod.

I'm really happy to get all this info and knowledge from you guys

[EJ_3]

Originally Posted by neroneuman

Cool. Thanks guys.

I'm going to change the plugs and get walnut blasting done before FBO.

for FBO, I'm going to install JB4, DCI, CP with Tial, OCC, FMIC, DP , RB PCV, vent, cap, in that order.

I would need help for FMIC, DP and RB PCV items.

I will also do the Tial BOV line mod and replace the coils.

Does BMW High Performance Ignition Coil make any difference than OEM BMW coils?

I would go with E85 or E60 later. Not planning meth.

As suggested, I will get MHD and start logging before FBO and through each mod.

I'm really happy to get all this info and knowledge from you guys

Some people expectations are too high! Just being realistic here, you're NOT going to see 400WHP being FBO on 91 Octane safely (if you're actually in Cali). 360-380ish maybe. Once you start adding e85, you'll cross the 400whp threshold. You should add in a upgraded LPFP to your future mod list also if you're going to run e60.

[sk55]

Originally Posted by neroneuman

Cool. Thanks guys.

I'm going to change the plugs and get walnut blasting done before FBO.

for FBO, I'm going to install JB4, DCI, CP with Tial, OCC, FMIC, DP , RB PCV, vent, cap, in that order.

I would need help for FMIC, DP and RB PCV items.

I will also do the Tial BOV line mod and replace the coils.

Does BMW High Performance Ignition Coil make any difference than OEM BMW coils?

I would go with E85 or E60 later. Not planning meth.

As suggested, I will get MHD and start logging before FBO and through each mod.

I'm really happy to get all this info and knowledge from you guys

i would go DP and stage II fuel LPFP first... or before FMIC, if you can run e85.

i dont think BMW coils make any difference i got both.... i would keep a spare coil or 2 in the car.... makes troubleshooting misfires easier.

i would get jb4 and bluetooth dongle so you can log with your smart phone...
i would prob log at each fill up of e85... if your doing hard pulls with the car.

and use MHD to flash the appropriate bms fuel flash.

IMO i think FBO should really include inlets.. why leave 50-75 hp on the table? specially if u can run e85...

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by neroneuman

Cool. Thanks guys.

I'm going to change the plugs and get walnut blasting done before FBO.

for FBO, I'm going to install JB4, DCI, CP with Tial, OCC, FMIC, DP , RB PCV, vent, cap, in that order.

I would need help for FMIC, DP and RB PCV items.

I will also do the Tial BOV line mod and replace the coils.

Does BMW High Performance Ignition Coil make any difference than OEM BMW coils?

I would go with E85 or E60 later. Not planning meth.

As suggested, I will get MHD and start logging before FBO and through each mod.

I'm really happy to get all this info and knowledge from you guys

We run and offer the Bosch OEM coils without a hitch. No reason to run the BMW ones as they are just over priced with the BMW tax.

[Nitrousbird]

Originally Posted by neroneuman

I know the LSx V8 engines do 400 HP comfortably all day long.

LSx is reliably comfortable with a lot more than 400HP. 500RWHP on a stock shortblock daily driver isn't a big deal (all motor of course). It is a much better motor platform to make big power than the N54, but that's a different discussion.

[neroneuman]

My reason for no inlets is SMOG. I have smog coming up in next 6-7 months and may be after than Im set for 2 years and will go with inlets. Other Mods like CP/BOV, DCI in the engine bay can be reverted quickly and also for the DP, we have DP fix to pass smog. In case there is a visual inspection while having inlets, I didn't want to risk it. So after the next smog I'm planning inlets.

Salute to those wonderful LSx V8s. May be I will buy a 5.0 With track pack after the n54. The problem with those cars is the handling, which is being caught up with BMWs now.

I'm still learning about the fueling aspects and the pump upgrades.

[TheRealMccoy24]

Originally Posted by neroneuman

My reason for no inlets is SMOG. I have smog coming up in next 6-7 months and may be after than Im set for 2 years and will go with inlets. Other Mods like CP/BOV, DCI in the engine bay can be reverted quickly and also for the DP, we have DP fix to pass smog. In case there is a visual inspection while having inlets, I didn't want to risk it. So after the next smog I'm planning inlets.

Salute to those wonderful LSx V8s. May be I will buy a 5.0 With track pack after the n54. The problem with those cars is the handling, which is being caught up with BMWs now.

I'm still learning about the fueling aspects and the pump upgrades.

As a fellow California resident I am curious about this DP fix to pass Smog...

Enlighten me if you could

[neroneuman]

After driving around for a day or two With DP fix for the Catless Dps, Car should be ready for Smog test. If the smog shop is picky about the Cats while doing a underbody visual, then its difficult. But I believe not all smog shops are too picky