[Dan_Q]

I'd like to install a Pure Stage 1 or 2 but premium gas is only 91 octane where I live and I have minimal access to E85. I could go maybe 10 mi out of my way to get E85 occasionally but I have some questions before I take any action.

I currently have a Cobb with a PTF custom tune. Tune wise, if I only ran E85 occasionally, would I basically need to reflash between tunes made for each fuel situation (say 91 oct vs E40) in order to take advantages of the E85? Reflashing isn't something I want to have to deal with. Switching to JB4 is on the table and my understanding is that a JB4 basically has the ability to auto tune for fuel quality and at most you only have to switch maps to accomplish that. Is that correct?

I understand running meaningful amounts of E85 requires a LPFP upgrade which I'm also willing to do. I'd probably also look at a 335is clutch since my stock one has 47k miles on it. Are there any other changes I'd need?

Lastly, I don't really have interest in dicking around with logs on a constant basis and fighting CELs. I just want to do the swap, get the appropriate tune working and be done with it. Is there any advantage to getting a Stg 1 vs Stg 2 in this regard. Cost isn't a big deal to me and I am sure I can install either turbo myself. I just want something that is reliable and if Stg 2 has no additional headaches I'd of course rather go with it.

Apologize if some of these questions are rudimentary for the smarter folks on the board but I'm just looking for some clear answers. Relevant mods on my car are a high flow cat, FMIC, CP and LSD.

[theweebabySeamus]

You would definitely want not only a separate map for the e85 but to switch maps when using it as well. You would probably be ok running small amounts without switching maps but running enough to make it worthwhile will need the separate tune, both to set the fuel scalers for the e85 and to tune for power. Logging is something that should be done periodically either way.

Pure Stage 2 will be a better way to go being stuck with 91 octane. The stage 1 seems to do pretty well but more so in areas with access to higher quality fuel. My 0.02

[Unklejoe]

If it were me, I would go with the Pure Stage 2 and just run normal 91Oct pump gas along with the Cobb tune by PTF. You won't make the same power as you would with a mix, but it's a lot more simple especially since you seem like you won't be running an E85 mix all the time. It really depends on your goals for the car. Complexity increases exponentially once you start reaching for the higher power numbers. With straight pump gas, you probably won't have to mess with the fuel system at all.

I have a Pure Stage 1 on 92Oct pump gas and it's a decent gain, but the larger stage 2 turbo will really be beneficial for situations where you're octane limited since it should produce cooler air and less back pressure for a given power level.

I look at it like this:

Pure Stage 1 = Good for if you're in there replacing the water pump or something and want a little more power or if your stock turbo has a lot of miles on it and you want to replace it for piece of mind (although my stock turbo had 105,000 miles and was perfectly fine)

Pure Stage 2 = Good for if your sole intent is to make more power

[mojobmw_e90]

Originally Posted by Dan_Q

I'd like to install a Pure Stage 1 or 2 but premium gas is only 91 octane where I live and I have minimal access to E85. I could go maybe 10 mi out of my way to get E85 occasionally but I have some questions before I take any action.

I currently have a Cobb with a PTF custom tune. Tune wise, if I only ran E85 occasionally, would I basically need to reflash between tunes made for each fuel situation (say 91 oct vs E40) in order to take advantages of the E85? Reflashing isn't something I want to have to deal with. Switching to JB4 is on the table and my understanding is that a JB4 basically has the ability to auto tune for fuel quality and at most you only have to switch maps to accomplish that. Is that correct?

I understand running meaningful amounts of E85 requires a LPFP upgrade which I'm also willing to do. I'd probably also look at a 335is clutch since my stock one has 47k miles on it. Are there any other changes I'd need?

Lastly, I don't really have interest in dicking around with logs on a constant basis and fighting CELs. I just want to do the swap, get the appropriate tune working and be done with it. Is there any advantage to getting a Stg 1 vs Stg 2 in this regard. Cost isn't a big deal to me and I am sure I can install either turbo myself. I just want something that is reliable and if Stg 2 has no additional headaches I'd of course rather go with it.

Apologize if some of these questions are rudimentary for the smarter folks on the board but I'm just looking for some clear answers. Relevant mods on my car are a high flow cat, FMIC, CP and LSD.

You bought the wrong car if you are willing to mod and invest money into but not deal with misfires and such.. You will have to log just to see how the car is acting. If you got a weak injector, you won't know until you log..and that can be a diffrence between a good engine and blown engine. Your call

[Unklejoe]

Originally Posted by mojobmw_e90

You bought the wrong car if you are willing to mod and invest money into but not deal with misfires and such.. You will have to log just to see how the car is acting. If you got a weak injector, you won't know until you log..and that can be a diffrence between a good engine and blown engine. Your call

There's a point where it makes sense to do a few mods because the gains are massive for very little effort, but eventually, you reach a point of diminishing returns with respect to the amount of effort required.

With a Pure Stage X on straight pump gas, it's really a "get it tuned and be done with it" kind of thing.

Once you start reaching for excessively high power levels, complexity increases exponentially. Then you have to start dealing with fueling constraints, misfires, etc..., but with a simple bolt on pump gas car, it's pretty hassle free.

[theweebabySeamus]

DrRobert had a post with dynos for both the Stage 1 and 2 he ran. He was in CA so you may want to check his post.

[Ozzie335i]

Originally Posted by Unklejoe

Once you start reaching for excessively high power levels, complexity increases exponentially. Then you have to start dealing with fueling constraints, misfires, etc..

Now he tells me.

[450pirate]

He doesn't have a downpipe though and made some really low numbers. Pure just dynoed a car on 91 with a little e85 and made about 450

[Dan_Q]

Originally Posted by Unklejoe

If it were me, I would go with the Pure Stage 2 and just run normal 91Oct pump gas along with the Cobb tune by PTF. You won't make the same power as you would with a mix, but it's a lot more simple especially since you seem like you won't be running an E85 mix all the time. It really depends on your goals for the car. Complexity increases exponentially once you start reaching for the higher power numbers. With straight pump gas, you probably won't have to mess with the fuel system at all.

I have a Pure Stage 1 on 92Oct pump gas and it's a decent gain, but the larger stage 2 turbo will really be beneficial for situations where you're octane limited since it should produce cooler air and less back pressure for a given power level.

I look at it like this:

Pure Stage 1 = Good for if you're in there replacing the water pump or something and want a little more power or if your stock turbo has a lot of miles on it and you want to replace it for piece of mind (although my stock turbo had 105,000 miles and was perfectly fine)

Pure Stage 2 = Good for if your sole intent is to make more power

Thank you, very helpful.

Originally Posted by mojobmw_e90

You bought the wrong car if you are willing to mod and invest money into but not deal with misfires and such.. You will have to log just to see how the car is acting. If you got a weak injector, you won't know until you log..and that can be a diffrence between a good engine and blown engine. Your call

I'm willing to invest some time at the onset, just don't want it to be an indefinite part time job. Running one log a month and looking at it is acceptable. That's about what I do now. But I've had cars and motorcycles before where I've done extensive work and I don't have the kind of free time anymore to dedicate to that level of maintenance, which is why I'm asking about this.

Originally Posted by theweebabySeamus

DrRobert had a post with dynos for both the Stage 1 and 2 he ran. He was in CA so you may want to check his post.

At the time I read through his post it looked like his stock cat was ruining the gains of Stg 2 over Stg 1. It looked like later he began using E85 instead of replacing the cat as a means of remedying that problem.

It is looking like I should simply stick with the turbo alone and just do a single retune optimized for running 91 octane. I'm willing to invest some money to bump up the power level but realistically I don't have a lot of time to invest so keeping it simple may be my best solution.

[theweebabySeamus]

Originally Posted by 450pirate

He doesn't have a downpipe though and made some really low numbers. Pure just dynoed a car on 91 with a little e85 and made about 450

Exactly. OP asked for something simple and not e85 dependent. Stage 2 will do a lot better in those conditions without having to get more octane to put down any power like Stage 1 does.

[450pirate]

I think I'm definently going to go the stage 2 on pump route. The kind of power I want to make would be maxing out stage one vs stage 2 would be not even working hard to make way more power

[DrRobert]

Hi Dan,

Pure Stage 2 on 91 octane pump gas worked fine for me with the OEM LPFP and a PTF tune, and you will see better gains on 91 octane than I did because you have high flow cats and I don't (but will soon! ). But you will likely run into a lot of frustration with misfires when running E30 or higher and PS2 unless you upgrade the LPFP to Fuel-It Stage 2, AND add TBI as well. And switching from Cobb to JB4 will not fix that. At least that has been the experience of myself and others with PS2. And yes, if you stay with Cobb/PTF you will need a separate map for each different fuel blend you use, and have to change maps when you go from one fuel to another.

I think the tuning for PS2 is still evolving. PS1 is more set-it-and-forget-it IME, but if you get it and are like me you will always be wondering how much better the PS2 would be. Same with PS2 on 91 octane - it is a big improvement and would probably be fine as a SIAFI system, but it left me wondering how much better it could be with better fuel. Right now I'm working on a PTF tune with 96 octane gas (half 91, half 101 octane race gas) and I can tell you this turbo really sings with some extra octane.

Since money is not an issue for you, you might consider getting the PS2 and enjoy it on 91 for a while, but be aware you may want to upgrade your fueling system later on in order to run E85. And oh yes BTW, you may wind up with a Fuel Pump warning light on your dash with the stage 2 LPFP. Not everyone gets that but I did and it annoyed me enough that I took out the stage 2 LPFP and went back to stock.

HTH,
Robert

[snaimpally]

Originally Posted by Dan_Q

I'd like to install a Pure Stage 1 or 2 but premium gas is only 91 octane where I live and I have minimal access to E85. I could go maybe 10 mi out of my way to get E85 occasionally but I have some questions before I take any action.

I currently have a Cobb with a PTF custom tune. Tune wise, if I only ran E85 occasionally, would I basically need to reflash between tunes made for each fuel situation (say 91 oct vs E40) in order to take advantages of the E85? Reflashing isn't something I want to have to deal with. Switching to JB4 is on the table and my understanding is that a JB4 basically has the ability to auto tune for fuel quality and at most you only have to switch maps to accomplish that. Is that correct?

I understand running meaningful amounts of E85 requires a LPFP upgrade which I'm also willing to do. I'd probably also look at a 335is clutch since my stock one has 47k miles on it. Are there any other changes I'd need?

Lastly, I don't really have interest in dicking around with logs on a constant basis and fighting CELs. I just want to do the swap, get the appropriate tune working and be done with it. Is there any advantage to getting a Stg 1 vs Stg 2 in this regard. Cost isn't a big deal to me and I am sure I can install either turbo myself. I just want something that is reliable and if Stg 2 has no additional headaches I'd of course rather go with it.

Apologize if some of these questions are rudimentary for the smarter folks on the board but I'm just looking for some clear answers. Relevant mods on my car are a high flow cat, FMIC, CP and LSD.

Get stage 2. Record some logs after the install and send it to PTF - they will create a new map. Enjoy!

[M.a.r.k.u.s]

Originally Posted by Dan_Q

I'd like to install a Pure Stage 1 or 2 but premium gas is only 91 octane where I live and I have minimal access to E85. I could go maybe 10 mi out of my way to get E85 occasionally but I have some questions before I take any action.

I currently have a Cobb with a PTF custom tune. Tune wise, if I only ran E85 occasionally, would I basically need to reflash between tunes made for each fuel situation (say 91 oct vs E40) in order to take advantages of the E85? Reflashing isn't something I want to have to deal with. Switching to JB4 is on the table and my understanding is that a JB4 basically has the ability to auto tune for fuel quality and at most you only have to switch maps to accomplish that. Is that correct?

I understand running meaningful amounts of E85 requires a LPFP upgrade which I'm also willing to do. I'd probably also look at a 335is clutch since my stock one has 47k miles on it. Are there any other changes I'd need?

Lastly, I don't really have interest in dicking around with logs on a constant basis and fighting CELs. I just want to do the swap, get the appropriate tune working and be done with it. Is there any advantage to getting a Stg 1 vs Stg 2 in this regard. Cost isn't a big deal to me and I am sure I can install either turbo myself. I just want something that is reliable and if Stg 2 has no additional headaches I'd of course rather go with it.

Apologize if some of these questions are rudimentary for the smarter folks on the board but I'm just looking for some clear answers. Relevant mods on my car are a high flow cat, FMIC, CP and LSD.

I have a stage 2 and I only ever run pump gas (92 in WA state). I have a jb4 and just run it on map 1 and the car is really happy and the difference between stock turbo and this one is massive. Way more power than anyone ever needs for the street.

[Dan_Q]

Thanks for all the responses.

Originally Posted by snaimpally

Get stage 2. Record some logs after the install and send it to PTF - they will create a new map. Enjoy!

This is a plan that I can handle.

Originally Posted by M.a.r.k.u.s

I have a stage 2 and I only ever run pump gas (92 in WA state). I have a jb4 and just run it on map 1 and the car is really happy and the difference between stock turbo and this one is massive. Way more power than anyone ever needs for the street.

I like the sound of this. I'm pretty pleased with the power I've got after the PTF tune. I think a decent bump up from this will put me into the range of where I'll be happy indefinitely with it.

[Tricki]

Originally Posted by M.a.r.k.u.s

I have a stage 2 and I only ever run pump gas (92 in WA state). I have a jb4 and just run it on map 1 and the car is really happy and the difference between stock turbo and this one is massive. Way more power than anyone ever needs for the street.

Is the purchase of DV and inlet pipe necessary with that setup?

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Tricki

Is the purchase of DV and inlet pipe necessary with that setup?

Not necessary but a recommended upgraded. Most get the inlet pipe as its not that expensive.

Mike