[Scotty89]

So I'm pretty sure I've been stitched up good, but I cannot work out what has actually happened. All I do know is: something doesn't add up.

As you may have read, I bought the Team M Factory LSD about a year ago, and had it installed by a "fabrication and off-road 4wd specialist”, 4B Fabrications in Carrum Downs. They also have a dyno and offer performance tuning services and work on race cars.
Due to their reputation and customer base, I figured they work with differentials a lot, being a common upgrade for off-road vehicles. I thought they would be a worthy shop to properly fit a LSD.

Long story short, last year I got them to fit the Team M Factory LSD.
I booked the car in, dropped it off and got it back within 1 day.
They opened up the diff housing, plopped in the Team M factory and said 'you're good to go.'
They charged me $360 labour to remove the exhaust, subframe, etc. remove diff housing and install LSD, then refit everything.
I supplied all parts including LSD, seals, covers etc. They supplied the differential gear oil.

After driving the car for some period I knew the noise and clunking wasn't normal. I bitched and whined like a little baby in the group buy thread on here, and Team M Factory informed me that I needed to have the backlash set.
They stated that it could not have been done without machining the circlips that I hadn't purchased (as it wasn’t mentioned or supplied with the differential).

I rang 4B Fabrications and asked if they did indeed set the backlash tolerance when they installed it, to which they replied:
Well, No. As your BMW had special clips when we disassembled it, we could not machine them as we didn’t have an equivalent clip to fill in the void on the opposite side.
We could only assume that BMW machined their parts to tighter tolerances than others, therefore not requiring any additional machining work to set the differential tolerance again.

I then bitched and whined some more on here, and then ordered the clip from Team M Factory - $90. Fast forward many months later, I got time to book the car in to have it fixed properly.

This is where the story gets interesting, so I’ll do my best to keep the story as factual as possible with date and time records that I have on my phone/ dash cam.

Wednesday 24th Feb - I rang 4B Fabrications at 2.42pm and asked when their next appointment would be available to get the diff work done. The lady on the phone asked specifically what I would like performed, to which I stated “The backlash needs to be reset on the differential, and I have a bunch of Nolathane bushings to be fitted at the same time”.

She said, no problem - we can do Wednesday, Thursday or Friday next week. I asked how long they would need the car, she estimated they could probably have it done in a day.
I asked her to book the car in for Wednesday 2nd March and I arranged to have the day off work.

Fast forward 1 week,
Wednesday 2nd March - I dropped the car in at [The workshop] 8.30am as soon as they opened.
I supplied:
the shim kit for the differential,
Nolathane rear subframe bushings,
Nolathane differential mount bushings,
Nolathane rear control arm bushings - upper & lower.

After waiting at home all day, they then rang at 2:51pm to let me know that the car would not be ready that afternoon, as they required new differential seals that could only be sourced from BMW directly.

This was my fault - I did not supply differential seals, having been done less than a year ago I assumed they didn’t need replacing again. I had failed to realise they were a once-use item that would be destroyed upon removal.

4B Fabrications told me the car would be on hold until tomorrow (Thursday 3rd March), waiting for the parts to arrive from BMW.

Thursday 3rd March - I arranged other transport to get to work and went about my day. By 3pm I had not heard anything from the workshop, so I gave them a call at 3.20pm to see what was going on.
When I asked about my car, he seemed surprised and said “Oh uhh yea, the diff seals only just came in 20 minutes ago and we have another car on the hoist at the moment so your car won’t be done this afternoon. We’ll have to get it up first thing tomorrow.”

In the same phone conversation I asked if that was all that was holding up the work. He confirmed “Yea, all the bushes are done, it’s just those diff seals we were waiting on.”
A bit annoyed, knowing that I was about to be wrekt by BMW’s parts pricing, I didn’t think anything of his other comments.

Friday 4th March - Again I arranged other transport to get to work, and once more I did not hear at all from the workshop all day. At 3.37pm I then rang them to get an update.
“Oh yea, the BMW. The guys are working on it right now, they’re still battling with those bushes under there, they’re real tough. Let me give you a call back in an hour.”

After I got off the phone I was puzzled, as I was certain he stated on Thursday that the car was done except for the differential to be refitted. I am certain that he stated the bushes were “all done”.

I waited around at home for the next hour, hoping he would call back so that I could have my car for the weekend. At 4.58pm I got the phone call “Hi Scott, the guys have just finished with the BMW, they’re taking it down from the hoist and going for a quick test drive. I’ll stick around if you want to pick it up tonight, or otherwise it’ll be here tomorrow [Saturday] morning.”

I asked over the phone how much $$$ I was up for - to which he said, “I’ve no idea yet, I haven’t done the paperwork.”
I got a lift down to the workshop as soon as I got off the phone.

While I waited in the office for him to put the paper work together, I asked if there were any troubles with the procedures.
He didn’t offer much, other than to say “the bushings were a total nightmare” and that I am lucky I didn’t attempt them on my own.

I asked which ones in particular, he replies “All of them, they were all horrible. I guess BMW just have tighter tolerances than others which make them extremely tough to remove. The ones in the arms that could be removed from the car were easier, as they could be pressed out on the bench.”

So, I take it from his comment that the hardest bushings were the subframe and differential mount bushings, given that the rear control arms are the removable components he was talking about.

Keep in mind these subframe “nightmare bushings” are the ones that Vincent has put in at home several times, flat on his back, on the concrete ground, with nothing but hand tools (i.e. not using a shop press on the car).

He then hit me with the invoice, $1,900 (or thereabouts, as I didn’t get to keep this invoice, as he reprinted a new one). This is strictly for labour on setting the differential, installing bushings and the differential seals.
The seals were $160 from BMW, leaving $1,740 for labour, being, 5.5 hours for the differential, 10.5 hours for the bushings + GST.

I said “Well, I wasn’t expecting this much. I’m not sure I have all the cash to pay the lot today.”

Without hesitation he says “Oh well look, I can probably squeeze 10% off that as you’ve been here before and have had work done by us in the past”. I hadn’t said anything more than my comment above, and there went $190 off the bill instantly…

I don’t know why it took me until day 3 to realise something was strange, but I figured if he could immediately shave 10% off the total invoice, what else have they inflated in their costing?

The differential work was $550 + $160 for the seals, compared to the previous $360 I paid last time. Granted, they had to set the tolerance, but I don’t expect that would add $190, given they are charging $105/hr for labour. When I questioned this, he just said there was more work involved this time.

I was pissed, but what to do? They had my car keys and they’ve already performed the work. I didn’t get them to quote before they started. Big mistake I guess.

I drove home angry. This is where it gets real strange.
I had a chat with my father, and as we were discussing it, I figured that they have covered themselves by keeping the car for 3 days and not telling me anything. As I could not logically work out how long they’d actually spent working on it, I have no argument to say they’ve inflated the pricing.

Then I realised that the dash cam should help me piece together a timeline. I went out and fetched the camera from my car and had a look at the videos on the card.

There is no video footage for the entire period they had the car, including my drive up to the shop. (see attached image of content on the card).

There is footage from the night before I dropped the car in, Tuesday 1st March at 7.07pm driving home from Langwarrin, then there is nothing at all for 2nd, 3rd and 4th March until 4.40pm (dashcam clock is incorrect, it is actually about 5.00pm), when the next footage shows the car parked on the street outside the workshop.

I know this footage was from when I started the car, as the White Mazda 6 in front (see screen capture) is my mum’s car which she gave me a lift down to the workshop.

There is no footage from each time they would have started the car to put it on the hoist, no footage of them taking it for a test drive, and most scary - no footage of me driving to the workshop on Wednesday morning (2nd March).

At first I thought, they’ve simply unplugged the cam when they got in the car, so that it does not sense when the ignition is on, and won’t start recording. Then I thought, maybe they just had the car in neutral when the differential was removed and just rolled the car on/off the hoist.

But this does not explain why my footage of arriving on Wednesday morning is missing, and no footage of them initially putting it on the hoist.

I thought maybe the camera had stopped recording if it had been sitting in the sun and overheated, but that is not feasible, as there is rolling footage for each 5 min loop for several days prior to dropping it in to the workshop, and then exact footage from the moment I first started the car myself.

It is as though someone has accessed the card, selected all footage recorded during the dates the car was at the workshop, and selectively deleted them.

I am going to try loading the card onto a PC and run some data recovery software to see if I can find any partially deleted or overwritten footage, but I suspect that the footage driving home, and from powering it with a usb on the laptop have probably overwritten the area on the card where the files would have been deleted and recorded in sequence.

But the point remains… Who deleted the footage, and why did they do it? What are they hiding?

I have had a quick look over my car and I can’t see any damage. The tyres don’t look like they’ve been abused and I don’t suspect anything is particularly wrong with the car.

When I booked the car in, they made me sign a disclaimer for supplying my own parts (Nolathane bushings), but there was no policy that I was aware off regarding dash cameras.

The pictures I’ve attached are,
- a screen capture of file AMBA1965, from the night before I dropped the car in,
- a screen capture of file AMBA1966, from the moment I started the car after picking it up (see White Mazda 6 is my mum’s car),
- a screen capture of the card directory showing all of the previous loop recordings from the days leading up to Wednesday (showing that the camera has been loop recording correctly).

[vtl]

Yikes 10.5 hours for the bushings! Shouldn't take anywhere near that kind of time!

How many kms did they put on the car? I guess you didn't have a reason to suspect anything but a tamper sticker on the SD card could help next time I guess.

I'm guessing they took it for some burnouts and realized you had a dashcam and quickly deleted everything. Sounds super dodgy!

Did it at least fix your diff clunk?

[Scotty89]

Originally Posted by vtl

Yikes 10.5 hours for the bushings! Shouldn't take anywhere near that kind of time!

How many kms did they put on the car? I guess you didn't have a reason to suspect anything but a tamper sticker on the SD card could help next time I guess.

I'm guessing they took it for some burnouts and realized you had a dashcam and quickly deleted everything.

Did it at least fix your diff clunk?

Yes and no. The car drives much smoother, and there is no more heavy clunking that I can feel between acceleration and deceleration.

With that said, there is increased whining noise and there is a more audible clicking between acceleration and deceleration now.

I still don't think the differential is correct, but I may take it to another workshop and ask them to drive and assess it (without telling them what work has been done).

I look back now and think all of this wasn't worth the hassle of going local. I should have just paid the extra to get a taxi to/from somewhere reputable like Active or the other forum shops.

[vtl]

How did you know what C clip to get? If it was clunking wouldn't you have to remove the diff, check for backlash, try a different circlip, then check backlash again etc? I would imagine you would need a complete kit.

The whining is probably from the diff bushings. Also driving the car for so long with an incorrect mesh could have put an alternate wear pattern on the crown wheel and pinion, which could explain the noise. But it should wear in in the next months as you haven't been driving it like that for an excessive amount of time.

You can buy a shim kit from difflab in Brissy:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BMW-E39-E...4AAOSwKtlWs~uz

Setting the backlash with the circlips isn't a hard job, only requires a $15 dial indicator (even I have one) and a pair of big circlip pliers.

[_ink]

#cue x-files sound track#

Sounds very suspect mate, but no proof unfortunately! The tamper proof sticker idea is a good one! Will have to search ebay for some, lol.

Always take your car to your #1 preferred mechanic, if they are a workshop on these forums.. all the better! Because they will have in the back on their minf if they don't do things correctly.. There will be some noise online.. AND.. ALWAYS ask for a quote upfront man!!

[iliketurtl3s]

I think u need to Name the shop brah

[tawfeeqh]

Far out scotty, bad luck man! I am looking into lsd upgrades, this is certainly a lesson to only take to a trusted mechanical workshops. I was wondering why you hadn't taken it to Active as they have done many lsd installs. They actually remove the diff and give it to a diff specialist that they know and trust. They have a fixed price (can't remember what they told me) and do all the bushing install etc themselves. I'm sure there are other good workshops as well not just active, just using them as an example.

The fact the dashcam recordings were disabled sounds really dodgy. Its unfortunate after all this the clunking noise hasn't fully been rectified. I'm actually a bit hesitent in getting an lsd installed now tbh. I would hate the car clunking around making noises.

Anyways keep us posted on how you go

[Flex68]

That's why I only trust one dude to work on my car besides me and even then when I drop the car off I take a photo of the ks lol

[Scotty89]

It's not even the kilometers I'm trying to get. I really don't think they spent anywhere near the time they've charged me for.

I've no problem spending $1500+ for workshop to fit things, as I've paid it to other shops before. But I'm not going to be taken for a ride, and treated like an idiot because they think it's okay to overcharge for working on a BMW.

[Socket]

Jebus Scotty, the bill would have been enough alone to have me up in arms Missing vid is really odd especially seeing the before and after footage is still available.... would be interesting if you can turn up any deleted files... Sorry to hear about this drama mate. On the upside you have the car back for the weekend, I hope the noises turn out to be nothing and this is the end of this episode for you

[CashedUpBogan]

Wow that does sound super dodgy mate. Maybe try going back and bringing to their attention that you have noticed something not right with the videos. You have now enlisted the help of your brother who is a data recovery expert to pull up deleted files. Give him one shot to be honest or be taken to court or some other threat idk

[Boganian Rubes]

If they were to delete dash videos of only them using the vehicle inappropriately, there would still be the other videos to prove that the car was there at their shop when the files went missing, so why not remove all evidence which would explain not even having the vid of driving there. 100% shifty cunts mate. Sorry to hear about all the drama.

[harms]

Sorry to hear mate.

I think the cost of the diff is ok. Your price last time was cheap, and it's plausible that they can spend more than an hour extra fiddling with the circlips/shims (which they didn't do last time).

I've actually been quoted a similar price from an installer (friend of a friend) which includes making own shims if needed, but does not include any removal and installation of pumpkin. I'm just waiting for him to get back from holiday to get it done.

Clearly their communication hasn't been great here. Letting that many hours build up without knowing or calling you is not acceptable. My only 2 experiences with workshops with my BMW have been Active and BMW Waverley, and both have been outstanding in letting me know what time has been invested each step of the way, probably because they know when someone gets a $2k surprise bill the shit usually hits the fan, understandably. Each of those workshops have even invested more time than they charge me, usually because they felt it shouldn't have taken as long, and possibly because they want me to come back.

Taking 10 hours to do a job Vince can easily do in his garage, well, I guess that is the risk of someone (even a professional) doing it the first time, and possibly paying 2-3 people to scratch their heads about what to do next. Lesson there is get a quote, or have them supply the parts as well so they can't blame those. I get why you had them install at the same time as LSD to save on labour, but clearly they hadn't done that specific job before. You know how it is, the first time always takes 2 times longer than it should. I guarantee the next person to take their 335/135 in there for those bushes will be charged less, because now they know what to do.

My only suggestion with the bush high labour bill is to get some quotes from other workshops for the same job, and then show them, and challenge them on the hours. If they take longer to do the job than others would, then you shouldn't have to pay for their incompetence and unfamiliarity with the job.

Re the dashcam footage - shit man, not sure if you have a leg to stand on.
It does sound suss though. If they disconnected the battery while it was being worked on, would it reset anything on the camera and have it not record?

But, really, what would they be wanting to delete?
a) silly behavior, burnouts and stuff. A couple of burn outs won't hurt too much, plus its good to test it properly.
b) the fact that it sat around in the workshop for longer than they said - probably true. But remember, 10 hours might not be 1 person working on it for a day and half straight. Could be 2 or 3 people for a short period. I bet he was lying when he said the bushes were in. It's the whole "i'm 5 minutes away" when you have only left work!
c) the fact that the job was quicker than they billed your for - maybe. But your only recourse is to challenge the hours, but get other quotes to back you up.

To be honest mate, I wouldn't be going back there. Even if they did a stella job, I'd be annoyed about the extremely poor communication. There is no excuse for that in any business, especially one where the market is small. C'mon, performance car industry is small in Australia and they can't go around giving less than satisfactory service.

If I were you I'd probably suck it up and not go back.
What is the best that can happen, perhaps they knock 2-300 off the price of the bush install? But how much time and effort and frustration would it take for you to achieve this? I reckon a lot - and is that worth 2-300 to you? If so, great do it. If not, move on and find a better mechanic.

[Scotty89]

Originally Posted by harms

Re the dashcam footage - shit man, not sure if you have a leg to stand on.
It does sound suss though. If they disconnected the battery while it was being worked on, would it reset anything on the camera and have it not record?

The camera has a battery to finish saving the current record to disk before shutting down (i.e. in the event of a crash that causes loss of power to the camera).

They could have unplugged it, to stop recording while in the shop - but it doesn't explain why the footage of me driving to the shop has gone missing.

[Flex68]

Originally Posted by Scotty89

The camera has a battery to finish saving the current record to disk before shutting down (i.e. in the event of a crash that causes loss of power to the camera).

They could have unplugged it, to stop recording while in the shop - but it doesn't explain why the footage of me driving to the shop has gone missing.

Did they access review all footage so incase shit hits the fan there's no proof when you drove to shop etc ..... Tbh regardless it's shit business ethics and ppl don't realise that one stuff up can and will cost you in the long run and the they shut shop and blame the economy

[AWSAWS]

Name and shame mate so they don't take advantage of anyone else.

[NBTBRV8]

I can't help the OP, but I too have been burnt. I was ripped off buy a user on here who I paid for a part that never arrived. I have since found out that he has form. So buyer beware.

It doesn't make you feel any better, but just put it down to experience and move on.

[AYEDEE]

Bastards. I totally agree with Rub3n. Youd only destroy evidence if you have something to hide. Also dont just check youre tyre for evidence look closely behind the rear wheel guard for tyre marbles.
If youre really serious about youre investigation do a skid and compare the tyre marks with those near his shop. But really hed be a big fool to have done one just down the road lol.

[iliketurtl3s]

Testing lsd with burnouts?

[EB89]

It could be that they just had it and didn't work on it till the Friday but still wanted to charge for the full amount of time.

I can't comment on the 10.5 hours of labor but for big jobs, most places would add some extra in there and hour or two.

Deleting the footage though, I can't understand that.

If you want to have a go at getting it back try this

https://www.piriform.com/recuva

I've had some success in the past but recovering deleted files depends on what happened to the storage after the deletion, if you write lots of data to it, there's a good change you have over written the deleted files.

Simply clicking and deleting doesn't actually delete the data, it just removes some header info that says hey there is a file here, when that header info is removed that tells the storage you can now write in this spot in the future.

Recovery programs scan over the storage media and looks for blocks of data with no header info and create it, allowing you to see it again.

[Boganian Rubes]

Originally Posted by EB89

Simply clicking and deleting doesn't actually delete the data, it just removes some header info that says hey there is a file here, when that header info is removed that tells the storage you can now write in this spot in the future.

Recovery programs scan over the storage media and looks for blocks of data with no header info and create it, allowing you to see it again.

So that's how it works, always been curios, cheers eb lol.

[EB89]

Originally Posted by Rub3n

So that's how it works, always been curios, cheers eb lol.

Yeah you can almost always recover data that's been deleted, as long as you immediately power off and pull the disc out to stop any new writes to the media.

Then use another PC to read the disc and do the recovery.

I'm really curious as to what is in the deleted footage now, and this makes me want to get a dashcam.