[GrussGott]

JD power 2016 is in - Porsche wins big! And ... GM??

BMW is the worst of the germans, but the difference isn't much



PS - keep in mind that this is for 2013 cars so not M4s.

[D675PDX]

VW and Smart were lower....but I get what you mean.

[DrtyJrze]

I'm having trouble understanding the results. How could the problems per 100 vehicles be above 100?

Porsche being so high is pretty awesome.

[04cobra]

There was just an article analyzing the recent release of this. They said almost every issue was infotainment related and about 50% of the complaints were "my phone wont connect".

"So, why are the overall numbers getting worse?
•Among owners who experienced a Bluetooth pairing/connectivity problem, 53% said the vehicle didn't find/recognize their mobile phone/device.
•Among owners who indicate having experienced a voice recognition problem, 67% say the problem was related to the system not recognizing/misinterpreting verbal commands."

I can attest to this. I have not had one single mechanical problem with my Fords, other than my phone almost never connects automatically, and I have to push the connect button on the screen. Not a huge deal to me, but I can see why this would annoy people and they would report it to the dealer.

"JD Power rationalizes this discrepancy by saying that vehicle faults – such as a broken engine or transmission – can be fixed, while poorly designed user interfaces will irritate the consumer for the life of the vehicle. That may be true, but this isn't a Vehicle Irritation Study, it's a Vehicle Dependability Study. And a dependable vehicle is a vehicle that doesn't leave you stranded.

The moral of the story is this: Until the eight categories that make up JD Power's Vehicle Dependability Study get some sort of meaningful weighted rank, they need to be taken with a grain of salt."

[04cobra]

Originally Posted by DrtyJrze

I'm having trouble understanding the results. How could the problems per 100 vehicles be above 100?

Porsche being so high is pretty awesome.

Multiple problems per car

[joeyb26]

i find it interesting that dodge is at the bottom of the list but ram is towards the top

[Arcades]

Still better than average!

Rawr!

[///M-er-gized]

Hard to believe Volvo is so high. When we were young, just married, and our kids were babies, my wife wanted a Volvo station wagon. Big mistake. Worst, most unreliable car I ever experienced.

• Passenger side speaker stopped working
• Driver side seat warmer stopped working
• Rear window wiper stopped working
• Climate control buttons broke off
• Weather seals in passenger window ripped out
• Worst braking I ever experienced (even after getting new brakes)
• Finally, a catastrophic oil leak (for no apparent reason) which led to a seized engine. This happened when my wife drove < 1 mile away to go super market shopping.

There were other incidents too, but that's what I remember...

[DrtyJrze]

Originally Posted by 04cobra

Multiple problems per car

Ok, so the avg is 157 problems in a 100 cars? Do they define what a "problem" is? I can imagine people buying luxury cars complaining about things that someone buying a Kia wouldn't even notice.

I'm speaking in general, not trying to defend BMW in any way.

[D675PDX]

Originally Posted by DrtyJrze

Ok, so the avg is 157 problems in a 100 cars? Do they define what a "problem" is? I can imagine people buying luxury cars complaining about things that someone buying a Kia wouldn't even notice.

I'm speaking in general, not trying to defend BMW in any way.

"The problems most often reported by owners are Bluetooth pairing/connectivity and built-in voice recognition systems misinterpreting commands. Navigation system difficult to use and navigation system inaccurate are also among the 10 most frequently reported problems."

So "my phone doesn't pair" carries the same weight as "my engine blew up in a raging inferno." In other words this survey is meaningless. There's no weighting system, every problem no matter how big or small counts exactly the same. At the very least they need categories to give you some sort of context.

[RocketBoots]

I find the Porsche dependability a bit misleading for a couple of reasons. 1) Porsche owners, on average, do not put a lot of miles on their cars, relative to other cars. Almost all dependability problems increase greatly with mileage. 2) Porsche infotainment tech is so far in the dark ages that it's simple enough not to have all the modern problems; and also, owners don't use or car about it as much. Apply these two things to any of those cars, and their "dependability" will shoot up.

And, uhh, yeah, I'd rank engine and transmission problems just a little higher than UI issues. UI, you knew what you were getting. Engine/transmission issues, you did not.

[mephiska]

Originally Posted by ///M-er-gized

Hard to believe Volvo is so high. When we were young, just married, and our kids were babies, my wife wanted a Volvo station wagon. Big mistake. Worst, most unreliable car I ever experienced.

Well how long ago was that? My wife a drove a 2009 C30 new (put 70k miles on it) and now a 2015.5 V60 (currently 12k miles) and not a single problem with either one other than false TPMS warnings usually due to calibration and a rock in her brake dust shield causing squealing (sound familiar?).

They've both been totally dependable cars and my wife is hard on cars. I have to monitor her mileage and service requirements (even though the car nags her, she never tells me) and make service appointments for her.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by RocketBoots

I find the Porsche dependability a bit misleading for a couple of reasons. 1) Porsche owners, on average, do not put a lot of miles on their cars, relative to other cars. Almost all dependability problems increase greatly with mileage. 2) Porsche infotainment tech is so far in the dark ages that it's simple enough not to have all the modern problems; and also, owners don't use or car about it as much. Apply these two things to any of those cars, and their "dependability" will shoot up.

And, uhh, yeah, I'd rank engine and transmission problems just a little higher than UI issues. UI, you knew what you were getting. Engine/transmission issues, you did not.

maybe, and I don't know the numbers, but suspect Porsche sells a lot of cayennes, macans, and panameras - probably more of those 3 than their others but I don't know. Anyway, I'd say those 3 models get plenty of miles on them

[dkhm3]

i need to find the consumer reports version- i think bmw is above mb, audi, and below porsche... maybe someone else can look for it.

nonetheless, i believe it is slightly above average.

shockingly, kia/hyundai did so poor. and FORD is 2nd to last? wow. SYNC must be pretty bad.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by 04cobra

There was just an article analyzing the recent release of this. They said almost every issue was infotainment related and about 50% of the complaints were "my phone wont connect".

"So, why are the overall numbers getting worse?
•Among owners who experienced a Bluetooth pairing/connectivity problem, 53% said the vehicle didn't find/recognize their mobile phone/device.
•Among owners who indicate having experienced a voice recognition problem, 67% say the problem was related to the system not recognizing/misinterpreting verbal commands."

I can attest to this. I have not had one single mechanical problem with my Fords, other than my phone almost never connects automatically, and I have to push the connect button on the screen. Not a huge deal to me, but I can see why this would annoy people and they would report it to the dealer.

"JD Power rationalizes this discrepancy by saying that vehicle faults – such as a broken engine or transmission – can be fixed, while poorly designed user interfaces will irritate the consumer for the life of the vehicle. That may be true, but this isn't a Vehicle Irritation Study, it's a Vehicle Dependability Study. And a dependable vehicle is a vehicle that doesn't leave you stranded.

The moral of the story is this: Until the eight categories that make up JD Power's Vehicle Dependability Study get some sort of meaningful weighted rank, they need to be taken with a grain of salt."

^This. Not a huge fan of JD powers or any organization that tallies data such as this.

The only one I somewhat trust is Consumer Reports as they supposedly don't take any advertising money and purchase all of their own test cars etc.

[///M-er-gized]

Originally Posted by mephiska

Well how long ago was that? My wife a drove a 2009 C30 new (put 70k miles on it) and now a 2015.5 V60 (currently 12k miles) and not a single problem with either one other than false TPMS warnings usually due to calibration and a rock in her brake dust shield causing squealing (sound familiar?).

They've both been totally dependable cars and my wife is hard on cars. I have to monitor her mileage and service requirements (even though the car nags her, she never tells me) and make service appointments for her.

Not long enough.

[RocketBoots]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

maybe, and I don't know the numbers, but suspect Porsche sells a lot of cayennes, macans, and panameras - probably more of those 3 than their others but I don't know. Anyway, I'd say those 3 models get plenty of miles on them

I suspected the same, but I was at a Porsche dealer about 6 months ago, and the sales manager there said the 911 is still their #1 selling car. But we all know about the accuracy of dealer sales people...

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by RocketBoots

I suspected the same, but I was at a Porsche dealer about 6 months ago, and the sales manager there said the 911 is still their #1 selling car. But we all know about the accuracy of dealer sales people...

well if "bay area" means SF bay area I don't doubt it - my observation is if you live here and can afford a cayenne you have a Tesla; if you can afford 3 teslas you have a 911.

[RocketBoots]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

well if "bay area" means SF bay area I don't doubt it - my observation is if you live here and can afford a cayenne you have a Tesla; if you can afford 3 teslas you have a 911.

Yeah, SF Bay. But I have to do an edit; my memory is due for an upgrade. He said the Cayenne was the #1 seller, but that the 911 still outsold caymans by a good margin. True though, Teslas are like Civics around here. Well, prius's.