[1LegitM235i]

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...r-wheel-drive/

This topic has been brought up before, but I don't think it's been taken in seriously by the consumer. R&T clarified from the horse's mouth what the future will look like, I take it, it can change. So the feedback from this article is as long as a little less than third of M buyers ask for manuals, they'll continue to make them.

I don't know what formula they use for non-Ms but I'm guessing there's quite a demand for manuals for now, but this wasn't mentioned in this article.

Are we safe to say, the manuals on Non-Ms are okay, but the Ms may have a crisis in the future? What do you think the future of manuals is going to be for the M's?

[MightyMouseTech]

:like:

Long live the manual!

[Haywood]

I have heard the next M5 will be AWD. I will continue to buy BMW because they do still sell manuals. I don't care much if the series cars go DCT, but keep the M's. Actually, that would be a good way BMW can push people who want manuals to upgrade to a M.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by 1LegitM235i

Are we safe to say, the manuals on Non-Ms are okay, but the Ms may have a crisis in the future? What do you think the future of manuals is going to be for the M's?

I would guess the opposite is true, actually. M vehicles will be the last in BMW's stable to lose the manual transmission. Series vehicles have been shedding the manual option at a pretty stable rate for the past decade or so, starting with the 7 Series, then the 5/6 Series, and most recently many 3/4 Series models (such as the 4 Series convertible). Meanwhile the M5 is only just now losing its manual option starting with the next generation F90, while the M3/M4 (including the F83 convertible, notably) will continue to have it on offer for at least another generation, and perhaps two or more.

[SCOTT26]

The compact and medium M cars will retain a manual option.
But they are gone from the larger cars such as the M5 and M6.

[kenny@velosdesignwerks]

I gotta say it was not till just a few weeks ago I got to drive a six speed M4. We've had our DTC M4 for quite sometime and as much as i love it, driving that six speed was such a refreshing experience. Next M i purchase will be manual trans. I really hope BMW never loses the option.

[IndotagSwizz]

the whole manual thing is becoming old news....most claim a true car enthusiast will only drive manual, but lets be honest, with all the new technology plus REV MATCHING lol anybody can drive a manual nowadays, its almost impossible to stall out now so its not even like you are truly 100% in control anyways

[1LegitM235i]

Originally Posted by kenny@velosdesignwerks

I gotta say it was not till just a few weeks ago I got to drive a six speed M4. We've had our DTC M4 for quite sometime and as much as i love it, driving that six speed was such a refreshing experience. Next M i purchase will be manual trans. I really hope BMW never loses the option.

As long as drivers like you and I are still around, I don't think they'll go away anytime soon. There is just something about the unique control of a car through manual transmission, simple an amazing experience. ATs/DCTs just feels like a racing game controller IMO.

[1LegitM235i]

Originally Posted by IndotagSwizz

the whole manual thing is becoming old news....most claim a true car enthusiast will only drive manual, but lets be honest, with all the new technology plus REV MATCHING lol anybody can drive a manual nowadays, its almost impossible to stall out now so its not even like you are truly 100% in control anyways

I would use the term "true car enthusiast" loosely. There are new generation of car enthusiast that have evolve with the car technology. Relatively, they are still considered true car enthusiast. Unfortunately, it is inevitable that humans and tech progress together, specially more so today with our cars. I just hope most sport car manufacturers still leaves some human interaction options with our cars in the future. Maybe I'm just getting old and still prefer primitive driving. I just never thought I would see an autonomous car driving me from home to work in my life time, but here it is! So I guess it's old news...

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by kenny@velosdesignwerks

I gotta say it was not till just a few weeks ago I got to drive a six speed M4. We've had our DTC M4 for quite sometime and as much as i love it, driving that six speed was such a refreshing experience. Next M i purchase will be manual trans. I really hope BMW never loses the option.

Really glad to read this.
I have been saying for years, if you compare identical cars back to back, manual in my opinion is just more fun/involving driving experience, no doubt. Yes, I know new automatic and DCT transmissions are quicker shifting, get you 0-60 a bit faster, and even will give you better gas mileage these days, but personally I don't care if I get kids to school and make it to work 0.5 sec. faster on daily basis.

So, good news I guess, too bad it's mostly "M" in the future, but manufacturers go after the money, and simple fact is, North American buyer in general doesn't buy manual transmission cars.

[mattc1176]

I don't get the market for this rev matching nonsense. Those that know and love to drive a manual don't want the assistance, and I don't think someone that only drives automatics will now get a manual b/c of it. To be honest my next car might be an automatic if the only manual cars I can get have rev matching.

[kenny@velosdesignwerks]

ATs/DCTs just feels like a racing game controller IMO.

LOL so true!

[1LegitM235i]

I think Rev Matching takes the fun out of driving a manual. Now why BMW installed this technology with the M2, it maybe to get the manuals a leg-up or even with the DCTs since they are quicker. Who knows the real story. Does anyone know any detail about it? Can I assume the manuals on the M3/M4s are the same?

[kenny@velosdesignwerks]

Originally Posted by 1LegitM235i

I think Rev Matching takes the fun out of driving a manual. Now why BMW installed this technology with the M2, it maybe to get the manuals a leg-up or even with the DCTs since they are quicker. Who knows the real story. Does anyone know any detail about it? Can I assume the manuals on the M3/M4s are the same?

yup, reved match for me perfect! I personally enjoyed it.

[kprocivic]

I have never driven a car that Rev matched for me. Seems like something that I could definitely get used to. Before these advanced trannys, (lol) rev matching and heel toe gave drivers the advantage. Now days cars can do it better that's technology for ya.

[Redd]

If you're not going to learn how to heel-toe properly, what's the point of driving a manual?

How many manual drivers out there can heel-toe properly?

I've driven manual most of my life. All my cars, bar one, have been sticks. I heel-toe during daily driving just to stay in the habit. Maybe it's age catching up, but goddamn I love my DCT. Lol.

[khanyam4]

As long as folks buy why not keep it around and make d c t standard and the 3 pedal an option.

[max_330i]

Originally Posted by IndotagSwizz

the whole manual thing is becoming old news....most claim a true car enthusiast will only drive manual, but lets be honest, with all the new technology plus REV MATCHING lol anybody can drive a manual nowadays, its almost impossible to stall out now so its not even like you are truly 100% in control anyways

It's less about actually being 100% in control and more about feeling like you're in control. Modern cars have ABS/traction control but those safety features do not detract from the experience of driving stickshift.

To me, the purpose of driving a manual transmission car is to get a greater sense of engagement with the road. My car doesn't automatically rev match, but even if it did, the muscle memory of moving the gearshift and letting the clutch out would enough to make me a more attentive and focused driver.

Personally, I hope M's are always offered with manual transmissions.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by Redd

Maybe it's age catching up, but goddamn I love my DCT. Lol.

It's your age catching up, plus not driving the same exact car daily with manual and DCT, not realizing what you're missing, so you've convinced yourself it's that much better with DCT.

I'm just kidding, just giving you hard time, both are great, it's what works for you.

Some (not all) folks who switched to automatic/DCT, every now and then will complain about missing "feeling" of driving manual. I have yet to hear it the other way around, getting manual and missing their automatic.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by mattc1176

I don't get the market for this rev matching nonsense. Those that know and love to drive a manual don't want the assistance, and I don't think someone that only drives automatics will now get a manual b/c of it. To be honest my next car might be an automatic if the only manual cars I can get have rev matching.

I think most auto drivers have no idea what rev matching is and assume manual is manual is manual and they're all the same. Just a guess though, but don't think it will lead to more making a change.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by 1LegitM235i

As long as drivers like you and I are still around, I don't think they'll go away anytime soon. There is just something about the unique control of a car through manual transmission, simple an amazing experience. ATs/DCTs just feels like a racing game controller IMO.

And my guess is that this will last 10-15 years, tops. Sooner if driverless cars somehow become widespread reality (the heavens forbid!).

Hey: there was something unique about a choke pull, and crank windows (including sunroofs!), and unassisted steering racks, and unintegrated standalone audio systems, and drum brakes, and (soon; already nearly gone in the EU) manual parking brakes. All have gone, or are about to go, the way of the dodo.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

And my guess is that this will last 10-15 years, tops. Sooner if driverless cars somehow become widespread reality (the heavens forbid!).

Unfortunately I think you are correct on this one. For sure in North America, but I think/hope it may take longer in Europe.

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Hey: there was something unique about a choke pull, and crank windows (including sunroofs!), and unassisted steering racks, and unintegrated standalone audio systems, and drum brakes, and (soon; already nearly gone in the EU) manual parking brakes. All have gone, or are about to go, the way of the dodo.

Don't admit you remember choke pull, kids these days will look at you "funny" . Few years ago while in Europe, my (fairly young at the time) kids just looked at me, puzzled, not knowing how to roll down their windows, it was funny, and a little sad/silly at the same time.