[Efthreeoh]

Okay, so just for shits and grins, and all the debates over the years I've had on E90 post regarding BMWs extended OCI schedule (especially with Clifton), here's what my valve train looked like last Saturday when I started by ESS replacement.

N52 @ 305,000 miles, 22 oil changes, OCI average 14,000 miles. Through oil change No. 13 the OCI average was 16,300 (which includes one oil change interval at 9,000 miles). BMW oil and OE filters. Not one spec of sludge anywhere.

[Three_thirty_I]

I still think your high mileage from mostly open road driving is the key to this. If this mileage was from lots of frequent short trips and lengthy service intervals, then I reckon it would be a different story. Looks pretty good BTW!! BMW oil, as in Castrol?

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Three_thirty_I

I still think your high mileage from mostly open road driving is the key to this. If this mileage was from lots of frequent short trips and lengthy service intervals, then I reckon it would be a different story. Looks pretty good BTW!! BMW oil, as in Castrol?

So I'll go with that my engine does see long run times of at least 90 continuous minutes one way, but it does see a lot of heavy stop and go traffic every week; it is not all open road driving. However a sort run (short trip) engine scenario would mean the car never reaches an extended OCI anyway since BMW recommends a 12-month oil change regardless of miles.

I mainly got into an argument with Clifton over this very subject. He was emphatic that I was going to destroy my engine with the 17,000-mile OICs (in some instances) I was running. I'm just proving my point.

[Three_thirty_I]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

So I'll go with that my engine does see long run times of at least 90 continuous minutes one way, but it does see a lot of heavy stop and go traffic every week; it is not all open road driving. However a sort run (short trip) engine scenario would mean the car never reaches an extended OCI anyway since BMW recommends a 12-month oil change regardless of miles.

I mainly got into an argument with Clifton over this very subject. He was emphatic that I was going to destroy my engine with the 17,000-mile OICs (in some instances) I was running. I'm just proving my point.

Got you now.

[kkasson]

Can't argue with that. Looks great.

Here's what mine looked like at 86k. I got the eccentric shaft sensor replaced under warranty a few months after I bought it and I asked the tech to take a picture of the valvetrain for me because I was a little nervous about what the previous owner might have done with it....I was glad to see that everything was in fine shape. He did a great job on it; he even power washed the whole engine bay for me and came to chat with me about the car afterwards. I wasn't expecting that for a warranty job on an already 10-year old car. Dealerships aren't always terrible

[Three_thirty_I]

That looks nice and clean!!

[Phil325i]

Originally Posted by Three_thirty_I

That looks nice and clean!!

+1

What oil change interval are you using kkasson?

[kkasson]

Originally Posted by Phil325i

+1

What oil change interval are you using kkasson?

Like I said, that was soon after I got it so I'm not really sure. The only records I have are at 2k and 6k, and then at 60k and 65k. The 65k was right before I bought it...they took it in to get brakes and I assume they just changed the oil while they were there because they were selling it, not that they did it every 5k normally. Unfortunately they did it at a chain shop and used cheap brakes, which are really squeaky now. It would be a waste to change them because they still have tons of life, but you can tell that they're not very good pads.

So far I've changed it at 7500 and 10k, and I plan to do about 15k from here on.

[Hacksaw]

Very clean. I agree this is probably more due to the longer drive time. Most of what happens with engines that are all varnished up is they do a lot of short trips. Traffic is not as responsible but lets face it... motors are not flinging a lot of oil around at idle either.

But the short trips where motors do not see operating temps are what kills cars. Always better to leave a little life in the oil and change though is my opinion rather than try to take it to the bleeding edge. But its your car and your experiment so I say enjoy it and keep reporting back. Your engine is one more data point to show the OCI is not complete BS as people like to believe.

Now from a FI perspective... high OCI will lead to failures. This is a fact. I know yours is NA so it can take this a lot more easily than say a turbo charged motor. Not something I would recommend for anything supercharged or turbo charged.

Thanks for the share and the pic!

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Hacksaw

Very clean. I agree this is probably more due to the longer drive time. Most of what happens with engines that are all varnished up is they do a lot of short trips. Traffic is not as responsible but lets face it... motors are not flinging a lot of oil around at idle either.

But the short trips where motors do not see operating temps are what kills cars. Always better to leave a little life in the oil and change though is my opinion rather than try to take it to the bleeding edge. But its your car and your experiment so I say enjoy it and keep reporting back. Your engine is one more data point to show the OCI is not complete BS as people like to believe.

Now from a FI perspective... high OCI will lead to failures. This is a fact. I know yours is NA so it can take this a lot more easily than say a turbo charged motor. Not something I would recommend for anything supercharged or turbo charged.

Thanks for the share and the pic!

Not sure why I have to defend this OCI iddue so much. For some reason people just have to go to "well you don't drive short trips, so that's why your engine isn't sludged up". As far as engines are not flinging a lot of oil around at idle really isn't true or relevant. The N52 oil pump works like this (from the N52 training manual):

Oil Pump
The high oil volume demands of the VANOS system on the N52 create a need for an oil pump that can deliver a high volume of oil when needed. Also, the pump needs to be able to cut back on the oil delivery volume when the requirements are not as great.

This occurs when the VANOS is not as active, for instance during cruise situations. This new oil pump is a “volume controlled” design which not only meets the oiling requirements, but also contributes to improved fuel economy and emissions.

The advantages of a volumetric-flow controlled oil pump:
• Favorable space/efficiency ratio
• Provides sufficient hydraulic pressure and volume for valve control systems
• Reduced volumetric flow fluctuations
• Hydraulic energy not converted into thermal loss
• Reduction of premature oil ageing
• Reduced sound emissions

The BMW CBS system accounts for several different factors to determine the oil change interval, one of which is the oil quality sensor. In addition, short trip engines (implying not complete warm up) have oil sludge issues somewhat because the water is not fully evaporated from the oil and the oil sees more dilution from unburned fuel. If you have a short trip situation where the engine does get fully warmed up, that is not the same situation.

As far as forced induction engine, you state long OCIs will lead failures and state it is a "fact". It'd be nice if you qualified that statement with actual evidence.

[Hacksaw]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Not sure why I have to defend this OCI iddue so much.

Not sure how you got that I was in some way attacking you or your position on your choice. Clearly it has worked for you in keeping the motor visually clean.
Might need to back away from the keyboard there and not take everything so jaded towards attacks.. its a discussion. Either that or your wording could use some clarification. "Defending" sure means you feel attacked and that was never my intent.

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

As far as forced induction engine, you state long OCIs will lead failures and state it is a "fact". It'd be nice if you qualified that statement with actual evidence.

I don't think I need to. There is plenty of real world examples and test results along with manufacturer feed back and information to lead you to a the conclusion long OCI kill turbos.. because the primary point of failure can be pointed to poor oiling in a good majority of cases. It's a technology that by it's very nature runs bearings very hot and cokes oil at a molecular level. Since it's not an independent oil system that same particulate matter gets circulated around the entire engine where bearings and oil pumps live. Visit any turbo manufacturer's website.. they will tell you long duration OCI is not a good thing for FI.

I also have the benefit of carrying with me over 30 years of experience with engines, both race and street along with a whole personal history of dealing with FI motors.

In case you need to be lead to printed information...

http://www.turbos.bwauto.com/product...endations.aspx

By it's very nature a NA motor does not have this vulnerability and there is a lot of data to back that up from manufacturers.... not something I just pulled out of my butt.


BTW I am lazy and don't want to do a search of the forum for your posting history... so if you shared blackstone reports or not... I have not seen them. That sir is also a data point missing from your picture of a fairly clean head if you want to get picky on sharing verifiable data.


Condition of bearings... suspended particulates... all of that helps determine a picture too and is shared in those reports. I am truly interested in your results.

I have said it all along too, that people toss out good oil and not getting their $ worth. A complete waste indeed.

While I am sure there will be those motors that can get the amazing run for miles over the course of ownership with all of the wonderful plastics and nylon for guide rails and other amazing composites that reside in the motors of today.. we will usually not see things last as long as they did back in the day unfortunately. Its the cost of progress IMHO.

But for FI.. yeah not going to recommend long OCI. I am clearly not in your camp on that one.

Cheers!

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Hacksaw

Not sure how you got that I was in some way attacking you or your position on your choice. Clearly it has worked for you in keeping the motor visually clean.
Might need to back away from the keyboard there and not take everything so jaded towards attacks.. its a discussion. Either that or your wording could use some clarification. "Defending" sure means you feel attacked and that was never my intent.



I don't think I need to. There is plenty of real world examples and test results along with manufacturer feed back and information to lead you to a the conclusion long OCI kill turbos.. because the primary point of failure can be pointed to poor oiling in a good majority of cases. It's a technology that by it's very nature runs bearings very hot and cokes oil at a molecular level. Since it's not an independent oil system that same particulate matter gets circulated around the entire engine where bearings and oil pumps live. Visit any turbo manufacturer's website.. they will tell you long duration OCI is not a good thing for FI.

I also have the benefit of carrying with me over 30 years of experience with engines, both race and street along with a whole personal history of dealing with FI motors.

In case you need to be lead to printed information...

http://www.turbos.bwauto.com/product...endations.aspx

By it's very nature a NA motor does not have this vulnerability and there is a lot of data to back that up from manufacturers.... not something I just pulled out of my butt.


BTW I am lazy and don't want to do a search of the forum for your posting history... so if you shared blackstone reports or not... I have not seen them. That sir is also a data point missing from your picture of a fairly clean head if you want to get picky on sharing verifiable data.


Condition of bearings... suspended particulates... all of that helps determine a picture too and is shared in those reports. I am truly interested in your results.

I have said it all along too, that people toss out good oil and not getting their $ worth. A complete waste indeed.

While I am sure there will be those motors that can get the amazing run for miles over the course of ownership with all of the wonderful plastics and nylon for guide rails and other amazing composites that reside in the motors of today.. we will usually not see things last as long as they did back in the day unfortunately. Its the cost of progress IMHO.

But for FI.. yeah not going to recommend long OCI. I am clearly not in your camp on that one.

Cheers!

You went to two places in the topic that were not relevant to my discussion, 1) short trips (BMW's CBS accounts for this by using an oil condition monitor, or low mileage interval - 12 month oil change); and 2) forced induction, which is why I find the need to defend the position I have taken. You are trying to prove an opposite point against one that I'm not making in the first place. But just to comment on what you linked to, the following is quoted from the link:

"What is good for a turbocharger?

The turbocharger is designed such that it will usually last as long as the engine. It does not require any special maintenance; and inspection is limited to a few periodic checks.

To ensure that the turbocharger's lifetime corresponds to that of the engine, the following engine manufacturer's service instructions must be strictly observed:

Oil change intervals
Oil filter system maintenance
Oil pressure control
Air filter system maintenance

So what is different in what Borg Warner is saying than what I'm saying?

I've driven over a cumulative 1 million miles and never sent an oil sample to Blackstone labs. Somehow I've never lost an engine; that's with 3 cars going over 230,000 miles minimum, and the rest well over 100K. It's possible the manufacturers service recommendations are valid, which is my point. My engine has reached 300,000 miles with long oil change intervals. It burns 1 quart about every 5,000 miles and still has all the power and MPG consumption close to when it was new 10 years ago; I'm not sure why adding some data points from Blackstone would make the proof that the engine reached 300K any more or less relevant.

Cheers