[DocWeatherington]

I wonder how an M5 or Current E63s would of done.

[gtron]

I really like the CTS-V and ATS-V. I just wish they updated their image and sales style. It's so hard to buy one in my area due to the dated staff.

[DocWeatherington]

Yeah Cadillac has a design issue, great products but the finishing needs a bit of work. But in due time, they are getting better with each gen

[mojobmw_e90]

Cadillac just a beast. I mean come on its a Cadillac no one expected Cadillac too ever move on past the escalade and get into a gun fight with Germans top sedans

[David70]

As the owner of a BMW and an ATS I actually prefer the Cadillac image. Tell the average person you have one and they just don't understand which I like better than the reaction I get from some with telling them I have a BMW. Neither really matters.

I agree some of the finishing could be better on the ATS and no point debating which one looks better as everyone has an opinion.

The sales/service facility aren't as nice but really have never understood this issue, I spent a small amount of time with the salesperson and will never see him again, and the service facility, less than an hour a year. I used to take another car to an Indy and he had no customer area and didn't care about that either (having a Latte and watching a big screen TV isn't really what I am looking for).

Cadillac - I don't think the engines are generally as good (CTS -V not included) but handling is generally better, interior is probably not as nice but actual sales price is better. I expect long term ownership costs (specifically maintenance/repair) to be lower.

[StatenEye]

I would have no qualms with getting a CTS-V, I was always interested but I really like BMW and see the ///Ms as the most well rounded cars on the market, especially my X5M. I really wouldn't change a think about my car so I have no reason to change brands, hence why I never got a CTS-V, but i think its a pretty awesome car. The Lexus... no, never.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by gtron

I really like the CTS-V and ATS-V. I just wish they updated their image and sales style. It's so hard to buy one in my area due to the dated staff.

What does this mean?

[VRG_135]

One of my dream cars, along with the Ford GT and Aston Martin Vantage

[gtron]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

What does this mean?

I already beat it to death in a thread titled "Cadillacs not selling". Too long to retype.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by mojobmw_e90

Cadillac just a beast. I mean come on its a Cadillac no one expected Cadillac too ever move on past the escalade and get into a gun fight with Germans top sedans

I did.

[DASHOCKER]

ctsv is a monster. Same price point... I would not look at the gs f twice.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by gtron

I already beat it to death in a thread titled "Cadillacs not selling". Too long to retype.

How about just copy and paste.

[r3dbimmer89]

Yaguchi, head of Lexus' F division needs to be fired...this car needs two turbos to keep up with its competitors... but the flip side is that its only $85k fully loaded...that's an M3 price point.

[gtron]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

How about just copy and paste.

A lot of opinions besides just mine:
http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=19848355

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by gtron

A lot of opinions besides just mine:
http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=19848355

Yeah, I was in that thread (I have the last post actually), I already knew which thread you were talking about. I still don't understand why you wouldn't buy (or like) an ATS-V or CTS-V simply because you met some apparently stupid or unmotivated sales people. I've not yet driven the redesigned (suspension) F30 to see if BMW has improved the handling and (hopefully) the braking performance, but I still think the ATS is the better driving car than the F30; regardless if the BMW salespeople treat me like royalty.

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by StatenEye

I would have no qualms with getting a CTS-V, I was always interested but I really like BMW and see the ///Ms as the most well rounded cars on the market, especially my X5M. I really wouldn't change a think about my car so I have no reason to change brands, hence why I never got a CTS-V, but i think its a pretty awesome car. The Lexus... no, never.

So well rounded the new Camaro SS beat on the M4?

[StatenEye]

Originally Posted by OrangeZ06

So well rounded the new Camaro SS beat on the M4?

Camaro is not even in question. I saw the US top gear and the M4 lapped faster than the Camaro so I'm not sure what beat means. Also, the Camaro hurts my eyes. If I want a dedicated track car I'll get an Aerial Atom if I want the fastest well rounded car on the road I'll have an X5M. Camaro SS pulls up next to me at a stop light they are going to have a lot of explaining to do on why a dedicated sports car just got trounced by an SUV. Z06 for that matter as well. Like I said, if I want a well rounded car that's at the top of the speed, and luxury game I'll grab an M.

[gtron]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Yeah, I was in that thread (I have the last post actually), I already knew which thread you were talking about. I still don't understand why you wouldn't buy (or like) an ATS-V or CTS-V simply because you met some apparently stupid or unmotivated sales people. I've not yet driven the redesigned (suspension) F30 to see if BMW has improved the handling and (hopefully) the braking performance, but I still think the ATS is the better driving car than the F30; regardless if the BMW salespeople treat me like royalty.

I wanted to buy one but I couldn't get past the front line. Here's a small excerpt:

Originally Posted by gtron

When I walked in I was looked at like "why aren't you 100 years old? not serious; please leave". I asked about the ATS-V at one place and this guy wouldn't even get out of his chair to shake my hand. Then he went on to say how expensive it is as to say I couldn't afford it so I'm not worth getting out of his chair for. For the record, I was not dressed down. For example, I happen to be wearing an $8,000 watch at this time.

I went to another dealer and again, I was looked at like I didn't belong there. I was showed the outside of the car but they wouldn't even start it up.

It was one of the craziest experiences I've had at a dealership let alone two. They felt dated and out of touch with their new potential customer base.

Shit, I still want one but ended up getting the Mercedes instead partially due to the above. I'll give it another try when I get bored with this one.

[scoobysaurus]

Originally Posted by StatenEye

Camaro is not even in question. I saw the US top gear and the M4 lapped faster than the Camaro so I'm not sure what beat means. Also, the Camaro hurts my eyes. If I want a dedicated track car I'll get an Aerial Atom if I want the fastest well rounded car on the road I'll have an X5M. Camaro SS pulls up next to me at a stop light they are going to have a lot of explaining to do on why a dedicated sports car just got trounced by an SUV. Z06 for that matter as well. Like I said, if I want a well rounded car that's at the top of the speed, and luxury game I'll grab an M.

I'd personally go for a Cayenne turbo/S or Range Rover Sport SVR if I wanted a luxurious well rounded SUV but regardless, all Euro sport-SUV's are in for a rude awakening when the Track Hawk hits the roads.

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by StatenEye

Camaro is not even in question. I saw the US top gear and the M4 lapped faster than the Camaro so I'm not sure what beat means. Also, the Camaro hurts my eyes. If I want a dedicated track car I'll get an Aerial Atom if I want the fastest well rounded car on the road I'll have an X5M. Camaro SS pulls up next to me at a stop light they are going to have a lot of explaining to do on why a dedicated sports car just got trounced by an SUV. Z06 for that matter as well. Like I said, if I want a well rounded car that's at the top of the speed, and luxury game I'll grab an M.

The SS beat the M4 handily, sir.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by OrangeZ06

The SS beat the M4 handily, sir.

If you're referencing the Motortrend review, the Camaro is easier to launch consistently and they are statistically equal on the track. The Camaro trounced the M4 in the subjective areas though.

As for the X5M, again looking at the numbers, the Camaro SS is about equal in straight line performance. As for the Z06, either he is racing C6 Z06's or he is racing against C7 Z06's with crappy drivers that can't handle the 640 HP. Though same could be said if he raced C6 Z06's as they are also faster than the X5M straight line( best times for the X5M's is the worst times I am finding for the C6 Z06).

[StatenEye]

Originally Posted by quagmire

If you're referencing the Motortrend review, the Camaro is easier to launch consistently and they are statistically equal on the track. The Camaro trounced the M4 in the subjective areas though.

As for the X5M, again looking at the numbers, the Camaro SS is about equal in straight line performance. As for the Z06, either he is racing C6 Z06's or he is racing against C7 Z06's with crappy drivers that can't handle the 640 HP. Though same could be said if he raced C6 Z06's as they are also faster than the X5M straight line( best times for the X5M's is the worst times I am finding for the C6 Z06).

Yup but real world numbers from a tuned X5M are a different story. I always get the same perfect launch with awd and have yet to have anything stay will me off the line. When ever I want the 700hp 700tq I just press the pedal and I'm off with no delays or wheelspin. There rwd cars have to have a perfext launch to keep up. I chose this over many cars for this reason and I couldn't be happier.

The fact were even talking about a SUV racing a dedicated sports car is awesome. X5M is a feat of engineering and I probably will never buy another street car with rwd.