[deve]

I had never had any limp-modes either on street or track ... then I installed PROcede v2. It works well on street. I tested it pretty hard but wasn't able to induce check-engine light. Which is nice. But once I took my "modified" car to track engine went into limp mode on 2-nd session and it constantly went there all next sessions after 2-3 laps So PROcede ruined my track-day and I didn't have code-reader or laptop with me to get some info out of ECU/PROcede. Then on my way back home I was trying to reproduce limp-mode and didn't succeed. Seems like I need to push car really hard for a while to induce limp-mode.
Now I am hesitating if I should get rid of PROcede and go for "stable" piggy-back or I should try to solve this issue with PROcede. But I definitely do not want this device to ruin one more track day.
Questions:
1) Does anybody know how to treat this issue ? Maybe I should adjust PROcede user-settings (BTW I didn't change them, I use default cfg). Or maybe bigger oil-cooler or inter-cooler ?

2) Can I increase "user" values for low-rpm and decrease for mid-range of rpm and leave high-range as it is?

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by deve

I'have never had any limp-modes either on street or track.
Then I installed PROcede v2. It works well on street. I tested it pretty hard but wasn't able to induce check-engine light. Which is nice. But once I took my "modified" car to track engine went into limp mode on 2-nd session and it constantly went there all next sessions after 2-3 laps So PROcede ruined my track-day and I didn't have code-reader or laptop with me to get some info out of ECU/PROcede. Then on my way back home I was trying to reproduce limp-mode and didn't succeed. Seems like I need to push car really hard for a while to induce limp-mode.
Now I am hesitating if I should get rid of PROcede and go for "stable" piggy-back or I should try to solve this issue with PROcede. But I definitely do not want this device to ruin one more track day.
Questions:
1) Does anybody know how to treat this issue ? Maybe I should adjust PROcede user-settings (BTW I didn't change them, I use default cfg). Or maybe bigger oil-cooler or inter-cooler ?

2) Can I increase "user" values for low-rpm and decrease for mid-range of rpm and leave high-range as it is?

Are u stock besides the Procede?

[deve]

Originally Posted by cn555ic

Are u stock besides the Procede?

yes. all stock besides PROcede

[cn555ic]

It has nothing to do with Procede....Stock cars at the track induce limp mode, I think when the 335 first came out, I am not sure if it was Car and Driver magazine tested the car on the track and it induce a limp mode!!!

[B'CahiLL-The Boss]

Just had my fuel pump replaced.

You might want to check that.

I was also running 92 octane, now I'm running 93 octane with my new fuel pump and Procede, my car has continuous power

[OpenFlash]

So quick to blame the PROcede. Yeeesh...

Either:

Your oil temps went to high. This is not uncommon if you are running hotlaps on a warm day. Especially if you don't have the Sport package's additional oil cooler. Even stock cars have been known to do this.

or

You're car pulled back too much timing due to running sustained boost with inadequate gas. In a max tuned car, pump gas is often not adequate in sustained racing conditions. If this is the case, you will either need to run a 50/50 mixture of race gas or just drop your boost down by 2-3psi through the user torque table.

Road course lapping is way more thermally stressful than anything you can do a the dragstrip or on the highway. Running a race gas mixture is relatively cheap insurance.

Shiv

[deve]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

So quick to blame the PROcede. Yeeesh...

Either:

Your oil temps went to high. This is not uncommon if you are running hotlaps on a warm day. Especially if you don't have the Sport package's additional oil cooler. Even stock cars have been known to do this.

or

You're car pulled back too much timing due to running sustained boost with inadequate gas. In a max tuned car, pump gas is often not adequate in sustained racing conditions. If this is the case, you will either need to run a 50/50 mixture of race gas or just drop your boost down by 2-3psi through the user torque table.

Road course lapping is way more thermally stressful than anything you can do a the dragstrip or on the highway. Running a race gas mixture is relatively cheap insurance.

Shiv

Sorry maybe I didn't word my thoughts rigth. I do not blame PROcede I am just trying to find solution and PROcede appears to be main "suspect".

No, I doubt that limp mode was caused by high oil temp because:
1) After I hit first limp mode I watched after temp gauge carefully and didn't witnessed temp higher 270F. And last session I hit "limp" in very beginning and temp was less 250F.
2) I have sport package with extra oil cooler
3) I ran my car on track before installing PROcede and didn't have any "limps"

I will try to use mix of race and pump fuels. Can i use gas additive to just increase pump gas octane value ? and if so which one would recommend ?

Can I decrease boost down only for mid range of rmps and increase a little for low rpms instead of decreasing all values across the board?

[uberschnell]

oil temp and coolant temp are two different things. run 100 octane on the track. problem solved.

[deve]

Originally Posted by Magna3

oil temp and coolant temp are two different things. run 100 octane on the track. problem solved.

What is the connection between coolant temp and gas octane value ?

[Dascamel]

Just did some hotlaps on a 90 degree day(Sunday at Buttonwillow). The car, bone stock with even the 2nd oil cooler will overheat after 2-4 HARD laps. I just left the Procede out to avoid issues, still had heat issues.I just take a lap off to cool down. The auto w/o a few upgrades just isn't a great track car in warm weather.
Even on 110 degree summer days, highway & street driving with the Procede can't break 270 mark.

Edit: I was mixing 100/91, probably running around 95 octane.

[deve]

Originally Posted by Dascamel

Just did some hotlaps on a 90 degree day(Sunday at Buttonwillow). The car, bone stock with even the 2nd oil cooler will overheat after 2-4 HARD laps. I just left the Procede out to avoid issues, still had heat issues.I just take a lap off to cool down. The auto w/o a few upgrades just isn't a great track car in warm weather.
Even on 110 degree summer days, highway & street driving with the Procede can't break 270 mark.

Edit: I was mixing 100/91, probably running around 95 octane.

Did you see high oil temp on gauge ?

[Dascamel]

Originally Posted by deve

Did you see high oil temp on gauge ?

Yes, around 290 I could feel the car pull power and so did I. My comfort level is surpassed when I break 285.

The guys in the tracking forum mentioned that the coolant temps induce limp modes in that ballpark. Never pushed it past that point to find out.

[leftcoastman]

Originally Posted by Dascamel

Yes, around 290 I could feel the car pull power and so did I. My comfort level is surpassed when I break 285.

The guys in the tracking forum mentioned that the coolant temps induce limp modes in that ballpark. Never pushed it past that point to find out.

Dingdingding. The coolant temps in a step are to blame.

I've seen more than one Step go limp on track while oil temps were around 285 or so. The slushboxes take a portion of the coolant radiator and use it to cool your tranny fluid.

For the OP - are you 6MT or Step? I've run my 6MT on track with Procede V2 for nearly two dozen track days. That's 80-100 minutes per day.

[deve]

Originally Posted by leftcoastman

Dingdingding. The coolant temps in a step are to blame.

I've seen more than one Step go limp on track while oil temps were around 285 or so. The slushboxes take a portion of the coolant radiator and use it to cool your tranny fluid.

For the OP - are you 6MT or Step? I've run my 6MT on track with Procede V2 for nearly two dozen track days. That's 80-100 minutes per day.

I have Step.
But as I mentioned I didn't see oil temp higher 270F on gauge. Could I have hit "limp" induced by overheating despite that ? If so what would you recomand to do to my Step. car in order to rectify problem ?

[rambino]

DATALOG IT.. Make sure your not Boost Spikeing (over 15psi ) and check boost in the High RPMS.. Adjust your torque values down where it spikes or is uneven, and the limp modes will stop

[WOPALX]

I firmly believe Step cars need a radiator upgrade, something that overdoes watercooling to a degree. Or perhaps an aftermarket tranny cooler.

[leftcoastman]

Originally Posted by deve

I have Step.
But as I mentioned I didn't see oil temp higher 270F on gauge. Could I have hit "limp" induced by overheating despite that ? If so what would you recomand to do to my Step. car in order to rectify problem ?

The 270 was your OIL temp. The car limps when oil hits 304degrees.

The car also limps when coolant hits 242degrees. You can view the coolant temp in the "hidden menu". Do a search for how to get to that menu.

Honestly man, if you want to track a step, you have few options:

1) Run bone stock (even then, other members have gotten limp once ambients get hotter). Being in the bay area, you probably run Thunderhill or Laguna. Thunderhill in the summer is an oven - you will limp.

2) Drive slower. ugh.

3) Replace it with a 6MT. Last year I was on track with a guy who had a nearly brand new slushbox. Even stock he was limping all over the place, but he was a very very very good driver. He complained enough that BMW bought back the step and he got a 6MT.

4) Find a way to get a 6MT radiator to fit in your step. Then get a separate tranny cooler.

[K335i]

+1

I've seen stock 6ATs limp, and it's almost always because of the coolant temps.

In my 6MT, there are only two ways I can run V2 at the track without limping:

1) Use race gas to increase my overall octane to ~96 (ends up being a 50/50 mix). The extreme thermal loads at the track makes running your street/dragstrip settings impossible without the additional margin that race gas provides.

or if you can't get or don't want to pay for race gas...

2) Go with less boost. For me, this was reducing TQ down to about 80%, which corresponds to a reduction of about 2-3 lbs of boost.

Originally Posted by leftcoastman

The 270 was your OIL temp. The car limps when oil hits 304degrees.

The car also limps when coolant hits 242degrees. You can view the coolant temp in the "hidden menu". Do a search for how to get to that menu.

Honestly man, if you want to track a step, you have few options:

1) Run bone stock (even then, other members have gotten limp once ambients get hotter). Being in the bay area, you probably run Thunderhill or Laguna. Thunderhill in the summer is an oven - you will limp.

2) Drive slower. ugh.

3) Replace it with a 6MT. Last year I was on track with a guy who had a nearly brand new slushbox. Even stock he was limping all over the place, but he was a very very very good driver. He complained enough that BMW bought back the step and he got a 6MT.

4) Find a way to get a 6MT radiator to fit in your step. Then get a separate tranny cooler.

[Dascamel]

Upgraded oil cooler will also help with heat issues. Our engines use both to cool, so oil and coolant will have an impact on each others temps. We need someone to try either solution on a step.

[deve]

Originally Posted by leftcoastman

The 270 was your OIL temp. The car limps when oil hits 304degrees.

The car also limps when coolant hits 242degrees. You can view the coolant temp in the "hidden menu". Do a search for how to get to that menu.

Honestly man, if you want to track a step, you have few options:

1) Run bone stock (even then, other members have gotten limp once ambients get hotter). Being in the bay area, you probably run Thunderhill or Laguna. Thunderhill in the summer is an oven - you will limp.

2) Drive slower. ugh.

3) Replace it with a 6MT. Last year I was on track with a guy who had a nearly brand new slushbox. Even stock he was limping all over the place, but he was a very very very good driver. He complained enough that BMW bought back the step and he got a 6MT.

4) Find a way to get a 6MT radiator to fit in your step. Then get a separate tranny cooler.

are you sure car limps when coolant temp hits 242F ?
today my coolant temp was 227F during normal highway driving.

[leftcoastman]

Originally Posted by deve

are you sure car limps when coolant temp hits 242F ?
today my coolant temp was 227F during normal highway driving.

Yes - other members have noted that the Steptronic runs hotter on the STREET than the 6MT on the TRACK.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...9&postcount=31
that's a quote from the BMW engine management documentation indicating 242 degrees for coolant is when the system starts dialing back.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...97&postcount=1
Some graphs showing 6mt vs. step on track and also the step on the street. Note the step on the street runs as hot as a 6mt on track.

Sorry bub, the step is good for boulevard cruising but isn't up to the task of tracking. You should complain to BMW - maybe they'll offer you a 6MT (worked for my friend!)

[uberschnell]

well, others here said it, coolant temp will limp you also.

There comes a point where the engine can't pull the timing enough, that's when a proceeded car goes limp on you. Higher octane means less timing pull and lower temps. I've limped at 270 oil on the track. I have eliminated limp mode w/ 90% setting and 100 octane. That's with an AT on a fast track on 90 degree+ days.

I should add that sometimes the difference between a 6MT going limp or not on a track is gear selection.